Demonizing sex workers

[FeralSmile]

My fiftieth story is about a sex worker. A sex worker who is married (apparently happily) and has a young child.

Now I posted it in LW. I wasn’t expecting a rating of 5 ️ and universal acclaim (as ever, the majority of people were kind, even the anon ones).

But this isn’t a whinge about this. It about comments like “no man would let his wife do that” and “no man would marry a whore” and “what do they tell the child about her disgusting work?”

There was (as maybe is to be suspected) condemnation of the woman and (as it’s LW) her husband. But none for the clients.

Is this odd on a sex site? Or are sex workers not human beings too?

Em

PS This isn’t really about my story (hence no link) it’s about attitudes to prostitution on Literotica

I think a lot of the fundamental issue here is that Christian men have been taught that they should blame women for temptation. If a man is tempted to "stray", they feel that it's the woman's fault. So men try to control how women dress and present themselves, as a way to reduce the temptation. School dress codes in the U.S. are really no different from requirements that women in the Middle East wear burqas; it's about reducing men's temptation by controlling women. "If we cover them up enough and suppress their sexuality enough, we won't be tempted, and everyone can be free of sin," they reason.

This is, of course, ridiculous.

If a sex worker is selling a service, and you buy the service, it's your choice. If you think it's a sin, it's your sin and not hers. If you see a pretty woman and you desire her, try maybe controlling your desires instead of blaming her for being beautiful. "If thine eye offend thee, pluck it out" is a bit extreme but gets to the heart of the matter; the sin lies in the one being tempted (assuming you believe in sin in the first place, obviously).

But that's not how Christians think of the whole thing, despite it literally being in the Bible; if there's a way to blame women, they will. There are all sorts of pejorative words for women who sell sex, but none at all for the men who buy sex. "John" isn't good or bad (or even a particularly common descriptor), but "whore" is certainly intended to be insulting and everyone knows that word. The funny thing though is that if nobody paid for sex, there wouldn't be any sex workers.

 

[FeralSmile]

We're much kinder than we used to be. The idea of being kind to people who are different as a general principle is fairly new. So, I do not believe you are naive on that point.

I'm not sure this is true. The Golden Rule existed in many societies, from China to the Middle East to Europe, starting between 2000 and 4000 years ago. Biblical parables like the Good Samaritan or the destruction of Sodom emphasize the expectation that people should be kindly and hospitable to strangers.

Then and now, most people struggle to follow these precepts, and prefer to demonize the outgroup as a way of reinforcing the ingroup.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Anyone who claims to be interested in the risks of violence and abuse should support decriminalization at a minimum. You don't have to buy into "happy hooker" mythology to recognize that sex workers exist who don't get into the business because of coercion, addiction or abuse/"trafficking". It absolutely happens -- cf. the Tate Brothers case -- but it isn't the lens through which everything needs to be viewed. It's very possible you have known some of these "harlots" without realizing it, from cam models of every kind to escorts, strippers, and more.

Living off your looks cannot be long-term. OTOH sex work offers other "outs" that aren't this Dickensian vision of dying in the streets of tuberculosis. I knew a stripper back in the day who is now a tenured professor of Philosophy, b/c SW is one way that people put themselves through school. I knew an escort who today is happily married to a finance guy in Manhattan. There are more than a few ex-pornstars who have gone on to build successful careers as streamers, bloggers, and general media personalities (often talking about sex), or who have left performing to work in the production and management side of the business itself. This isn't to deny that the seamier side of the business exists, but it is to say that reducing it exclusively to the seamier side isn't factually accurate or helpful. To SWers least of all.

I think it’s really important to not dismiss every prostitute as a drug-dependent street-dweller. Many, many are. Substance abuse is rife in pornography as well. As is person abuse.

But…

Some sex workers are not in it to feed an addiction. Some are married or in stable relationships. I just wanted to tell that story as I don’t think it’s often told. I didn’t mean to say that my FMCs experience was typical. But it’s not 100% atypical either.

Some people have a very transactional / matter-of-fact view of sex. I did myself for some time; I viewed sex as just a fun act, no emotional or moral aspect to it. For some sex workers, it is just a job. A minority I fully accept. But those people exist too.

And even those who are feeding a habit are still people and still need respect adb support and even love. They are still people.

This thread was about comments in Lit that viewed any sex worker as sub-human.

Em

 

[MillieDynamite]

Anyone and everyone who writes is fully free to portray prostitution as they want. I don't make judgments on fictional accounts as long as the story has a ring of truth to it.

I think it’s really important to not dismiss every prostitute as a drug-dependent street-dweller. Many, many are. Substance abuse is rife in pornography as well. As is person abuse.

But…

Some sex workers are not in it to feed an addiction. Some are married or in stable relationships. I just wanted to tell that story as I don’t think it’s often told. I didn’t mean to say that my FMCs experience was typical. But it’s not 100% atypical either.

Some people have a very transactional / matter-of-fact view of sex. I did myself for some time; I viewed sex as just a fun act, no emotional or moral aspect to it. For some sex workers, it is just a job. A minority I fully accept. But those people exist too.

And even those who are feeding a habit are still people and still need respect adb support and even love. They are still people.

This thread was about comments in Lit that viewed any sex worker as sub-human.

Em

 

[Djmac1031]

But that's not how Christians think of the whole thing, despite it literally being in the Bible; if there's a way to blame women, they will.

Of course. What else should we expect from avgroup that adheres to a book that blames a woman for the downfall of humanity?

 

[MillieDynamite]

Humanity didn't fall until Adam yielded to the temptation, not with Eve taking a bite. It required them both to partake to get thrown out of paradise. Adam just did what men always do, point their finger, and say, "She made me do it."

Of course. What else should we expect from avgroup that adheres to a book that blames a woman for the downfall of humanity?

 

[Djmac1031]

Humanity didn't fall until Adam yielded to the temptation, not with Eve taking a bit. It required them both to partake to get thrown out of paradise. Adam just did what men always do, point their finger, and say, "She made me do it."

I said the book BLAMED the woman.

Didn't say it was actually her fault.

It's a fairytale anyway, of course, but what a great excuse to propagate misogyny through the ages, amirite?

 

[shewantsmore]

Not every woman who has to work in the sex industry are into drugs ,yes it does impact on peoples lifes, and affects every part of the lifes, some have no choice, money problems or simply haveno choice. . There is good and bad in every industry,

 

[MillieDynamite]

But the Book doesn't say it's her fault. Adam defends his action by blaming his wife. In other places, men interpret what they say was given to them to be the subjugation of women, but can one trust a man to portray something that says he isn't the center of everything? I seriously doubt, if God exists, he approves of a lot of the laws that put man on top. And he might not be a he, in fact, he is spirit if he is at all.

I said the book BLAMED the woman.

Didn't say it was actually her fault.

It's a fairytale anyway, of course, but what a great excuse to propagate misogyny through the ages, amirite?

 

[Djmac1031]

But the Book doesn't say it's her fault. Adam defends his action by blaming his wife. In other places, men interpret what they say was given to them to be the subjugation of women, but can one trust a man to portray something that says he isn't the center of everything? I seriously doubt, if God exists, he approves of a lot of the laws that put man on top. And he might not be a he, in fact, he is spirit if he is at all.

For me, the answer is much easier: there is no god and religion was invented to control the masses.

 

[MillieDynamite]

You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine. Agree to disagree.

For me, the answer is much easier: there is no god and religion was invented to control the masses.

 

[JaxRhapsody]

For me, the answer is much easier: there is no god and religion was invented to control the masses.

That's fine, you can believe that, but it's not all of them- certainly not mine.

 

[alohadave]

I think a lot of the fundamental issue here is that Christian men have been taught that they should blame women for temptation. If a man is tempted to "stray", they feel that it's the woman's fault. So men try to control how women dress and present themselves, as a way to reduce the temptation.

That's not just Christians. It's a men in power thing.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I don't think most men need any temptation more than a smile to think the woman wants to fuck them. It seems to be the default mode for men, oh, she wants my body so bad. Yeah, sure, she does.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I don't think most men need any temptation more than a smile to think the woman wants to fuck them. It seems to be the default mode for men, oh, she wants my body so bad. Yeah, sure, she does.

What she said

 

[XerXesXu]

This is another culture-dependent thing.

In England and Wales prostitution has never been illegal. The law has sought, ever more stringently, to suppress pimping - living off the earnings of prostitutes, thus ensuring that the girls, like numerous other members of the working population, including myself, were self-employed.

I was aware of ‘naughty girls’ before I knew what a homosexual was, they were in evidence everywhere. I don’t remember anyone giving any thought to their backgrounds or that of their customers. They looked very much like other girls, maybe a bit more friendly, but they didn’t have a crack-whore image. There was some vague suggestion that they were unmarried mothers doing cash-in-hand work to supplement their benefits. It was a business, but not very reputable. There were jokes about girls travelling from ‘up-North’ to London on discount ‘Have it Away Day’ British Rail day return tickets promoted as ‘Away Days’ - do a days work and return home with enough money to provide well for their children without anyone in their home town knowing where their money came from.

It wasn’t ‘til 1960 that it became illegal for a ‘common prostitute’ to solicit in a public place. I put common prostitute in quotes because ‘women’ could still, as they always have, solicit in a public place. You’ve probably seen videos of Saturday nights on English high streets - there’s a lot of soliciting going on, girls trying to pick up guys (and vice-versa). For an offence to be committed the female had to be proved to be a ‘common prostitute’, usually by proving the acceptance of cautions on two occasions or a previous conviction. Respectable girls have always solicited for eligible guys in public places and the law was drawn up so respectable girls, who were merely accosting likely lads on the off chance, wouldn’t be caught in a net set for naughty girls. There’s no shortage of respectable girls in London.

 

[MillieDynamite]

True!

Many don't even need that.

 

[lc69hunter]

You think, even where it is legal, the woman has rights? I'd bet my bottom dollar it's rigged for the house there as well. No matter the laws, no matter good intentions, without unions, and no one crosses the picket lines, women will always be abused by the powers that be when it comes to sex workers.

You are correct on a lot of your comments. 1) My friend doesn't really enjoy the work, is looking for other opportunities. 2) It IS rigged in favor of the House. The House ends up getting more than 50% of the negotiated fee (workers are self-employed) in return for the two week room and board, security etc. And, it is not a long term profession, though my friend is 42, though she looks about 29-30.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I just believe that sex with a lot of partners makes intimacy with one person harder. Sex is like a zipper tying two people together in more than sex when it's just them. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

You are correct on a lot of your comments. 1) My friend doesn't really enjoy the work, is looking for other opportunities. 2) It IS rigged in favor of the House. The House ends up getting more than 50% of the negotiated fee (workers are self-employed) in return for the two week room and board, security etc. And, it is not a long term profession, though my friend is 42, though she looks about 29-30.

 

[offkilter123]

I am absolutely pilloried on LW (only place I post on Lit) for my leftist views even though my stories are usually BTB and fairly well received. The MAGA contingent comes out in force to wave their pitchforks at me which is pretty ironic considering them and their “family values“ being on a porn site.

There’s no hate like Christian love.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I am absolutely pilloried on LW (only place I post on Lit) for my leftist views even though my stories are usually BTB and fairly well received. The MAGA contingent comes out in force to wave their pitchforks at me which is pretty ironic considering them and their “family values“ being on a porn site.

There’s no hate like Christian love.

BTB is leftist? Who knew?

Em

 

[HollyS]

Am I naive to think we are capable of growth and kindness as a species? I am, aren’t I?

Em

I fear you are, yes. The rapid increase in knowledge and technology far outstrips the evolution of our biological emotional machinery, I believe. There's no way emotion can keep up with intellect, so there will likely always be conflict, IMO.

As for the sex workers - yeah, that's an us and them thing.

 

[TheRedChamber]

It wasn’t ‘til 1960 that it became illegal for a ‘common prostitute’ to solicit in a public place. I put common prostitute in parenthesis because ‘women’ could still, as they always have, solicit in a public place. You’ve probably seen videos of Saturday nights on English high streets - there’s a lot of soliciting going on, girls trying to pick up guys (and vice-versa). For an offence to be committed the female had to be proved to be a ‘common prostitute’, usually by proving the acceptance of cautions on two occasions or a previous conviction. Respectable girls have always solicited for eligible guys in public places and the law was drawn up so respectable girls, who were merely accosting likely lads on the off chance, wouldn’t be caught in a net set for naughty girls. There’s no shortage of respectable girls in London.

It reminds me of walking through Oxford town center on a Friday night with a Chinese work colleague. We pass a group of ladies hanging around on the corner and, after having walked about a hundred meters down the road, she elbows me and goes "Psst, were those girls back there prostitutes?" I glance back and say "I totally understand why you might think that, but no, they're just normal English girls on a night out."

If I remember correctly, it was November and the girls in question were in no way dressed for November...

 

[EmilyMiller]

Just a note:

This thread is not meant to be about the rights and wrongs of sex work. It’s meant to be about the rights and wrongs of being disparaging about sex workers. And - in particular - about treating them as less than human. E.g. no sane man would marry a prostitute.

Just sayin’

Em

 

[XerXesXu]

Just a note:

This thread is not meant to be about the rights and wrongs of sex work. It’s meant to be about the rights and wrongs of being disparaging about sex workers. And - in particular - about treating them as less than human. E.g. no sane man would marry a prostitute.

Just sayin’

Em

Can you explain the disconnect in your mind between a person’s culturally acquired beliefs about sex work and whether that person would disparage them?

Why do you believe people, who may be sex-positive, would not express culturally acquired prejudices on a sex site?

In my youth, if the question of ‘What sort of man would marry a whore?’ came up, the answer would be ‘A Maltese’. They acquired an unsavoury reputation, much more unsavoury than their wives.

You jump from ‘disparaging’ to equating that to treating sex workers as ‘not human beings.’ Why?

I disparage rapists and paedophiles; do I imply by that that they’re not human beings? No.

What do you mean by ‘not human beings’?

You imply that you feel that the sex workers’ clients should be ‘disparaged’. Out of some sense of even-handedness? Some people have culturally acquired beliefs that their clients are ‘victims’ of sex workers. Do you see that, to them, disparagement would amount to blaming the victim for the delinquency of the delinquent? Rapey individuals do that. Paedophiles do that.

In passing, many military men married prostitutes. There was (is) a strict rule that you never adverted to the occupation of a fellow mess member's wife before marriage. Marriage cured everything. The man in your sample differs in that there’s something of a Maltese about him. That wouldn’t do.