Demonizing sex workers

[lc69hunter]

My fiftieth story is about a sex worker. A sex worker who is married (apparently happily) and has a young child.

Now I posted it in LW. I wasn’t expecting a rating of 5 ️ and universal acclaim (as ever, the majority of people were kind, even the anon ones).

But this isn’t a whinge about this. It about comments like “no man would let his wife do that” and “no man would marry a whore” and “what do they tell the child about her disgusting work?”

There was (as maybe is to be suspected) condemnation of the woman and (as it’s LW) her husband. But none for the clients.

Is this odd on a sex site? Or are sex workers not human beings too?

Em

PS This isn’t really about my story (hence no link) it’s about attitudes to prostitution on Literotica

I was in Las Vegas this last three days and made friends, and also hooked up, with a lady, who works at one the brothels in Nevada. We talked about the type of men that pay for services, the guys who call her a whore/slut, and those who are are gentlemen, treating her like the lady she is. We are in contact, and do not know if there is a future there, but she is one of the clasiest women I have ever met. We are getting together again in December. Again, don't know if there is a future, but I have no problem with her line of work

 

[EmilyMiller]

I was in Las Vegas this last three days and made friends, and also hooked up, with a lady, who works at one the brothels in Nevada. We talked about the type of men that pay for services, the guys who call her a whore/slut, and those who are are gentlemen, treating her like the lady she is. We are in contact, and do not know if there is a future there, but she is one of the clasiest women I have ever met. We are getting together again in December. Again, don't know if there is a future, but I have no problem with her line of work

Good for you, hun .

Em

 

[JaxRhapsody]

Not really my thing. I judge them and their johns, probably one of the few conservative opinions I have about these harlots and the men that desire them.

As far as those who said they don't read LW, I got curious once and read three of them. I never read the comments and I remember one of the three was about a married couple, the woman berated the man and cheated on him, wouldn't really have sex with him. To get even he would use a huge dildo and fuck her ass with it, I can't recall why, though. It was about the size of a roll of toilet paper and would tire her out every time. I think she still cheated off screen, though.

I have one on the backburner, too. As far as prostitutes, I've only written one, the mc's mom was one when they met in my current incest story. She was also a stripper to make ends meet.

 

[EroticCupcake]

Reading comments reminded me of one reason they are demonized. If both parties don't have good boundaries, then transactional sex can lead to hurt feelings. "That woman I paid for sex is only using me for my wallet!!!"

 

[theWollstonecraftWoman]

While street action is much slower these days, it hasn't vanished from the American Landscape. I seriously doubt that the Great American Pimp is any less a bastard now than in the past. I also, like Millie, don't buy the happy hooker's we see portrayed in movies and television shows. Perhaps in other countries, prostitutes actually love having sex with many men a day. Having their guts used for the pleasure of a paying customer. But I truly doubt it. I liked working in advertising when I was young. I loved doing the art for ads. Loved people telling me it wasn't quite what they had in mind. Or it's a bit over the top. No, the last two things pissed me off, and when I remarried, and he didn't think I needed to work, I jumped at being able to paint for me and not others.

Almost every job gets old. But imagine taking something that should make you so happy to do and having to do it 5, 10, 15, or 20 times a day with different people. Fucking until it becomes more of a chore than a job, more of a job than a pleasure. Fucking until the thought of it makes you worn out.

 

[SimonDoom]

While street action is much slower these days, it hasn't vanished from the American Landscape. I seriously doubt that the Great American Pimp is any less a bastard now than in the past. I also, like Millie, don't buy the happy hooker's we see portrayed in movies and television shows. Perhaps in other countries, prostitutes actually love having sex with many men a day. Having their guts used for the pleasure of a paying customer. But I truly doubt it. I liked working in advertising when I was young. I loved doing the art for ads. Loved people telling me it wasn't quite what they had in mind. Or it's a bit over the top. No, the last two things pissed me off, and when I remarried, and he didn't think I needed to work, I jumped at being able to paint for me and not others.

Almost every job gets old. But imagine taking something that should make you so happy to do and having to do it 5, 10, 15, or 20 times a day with different people. Fucking until it becomes more of a chore than a job, more of a job than a pleasure. Fucking until the thought of it makes you worn out.

I think the key point is that it's just a job, like other jobs. The only thing that makes it different is that it's criminalized, which means that those who participate in it, like those who participate in other criminalized activities, cannot enjoy the same protection of the legal system, so a prostitute is subject to risks of personal harm that a masseuse is not.

There are definitely people who have sex with others for money who enjoy their jobs. I know a woman who had been a high-priced escort in her earlier life. She was married at the time. She said it was great and she made lots of money. One can't generalize about prostitution any more than one can generalize about any other job.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I think the key point is that it's just a job, like other jobs. The only thing that makes it different is that it's criminalized, which means that those who participate in it, like those who participate in other criminalized activities, cannot enjoy the same protection of the legal system, so a prostitute is subject to risks of personal harm that a masseuse is not.

There are definitely people who have sex with others for money who enjoy their jobs. I know a woman who had been a high-priced escort in her earlier life. She was married at the time. She said it was great and she made lots of money. One can't generalize about prostitution any more than one can generalize about any other job.

Wow! I’m agreeing with Simon. It’s the end of days!

Em

 

[SimonDoom]

Wow! I’m agreeing with Simon. It’s the end of days!

Em

You're coming around.

 

[EmilyMiller]

You're coming around.

Well I’m not cumming around that

Em

 

[SimonDoom]

Well I’m not cumming around that

Em

I kind of wasn't expecting that!

 

[EmilyMiller]

I kind of wasn't expecting that!

Sorry - wordplay and sex - it’s kinda my thing. Couldn’t resist .

Em

 

[MillieDynamite]

One out of 100,000 sex workers does not a trend make. Part-time prostitution between palates, dropping the kids off at school, and going to parties with hubby isn't living off the street. High-priced call girls are a rarified community, and not all of them are voluntarily in that life. Once you're in the life, it isn't always a matter of quitting, and it depends on who you're going through for work. Self-employed prostitutes, even high-priced ones, get busted more often, run as big a risk of hooking up with psycho or rapists. Websites get flagged by cops, and then the girls are screwed by them. Busted or paying for protection.

Making your living from your body eventually isn't going to work. No matter how high class you are, time, gravity, and the work take a toll.

I think the key point is that it's just a job, like other jobs. The only thing that makes it different is that it's criminalized, which means that those who participate in it, like those who participate in other criminalized activities, cannot enjoy the same protection of the legal system, so a prostitute is subject to risks of personal harm that a masseuse is not.

There are definitely people who have sex with others for money who enjoy their jobs. I know a woman who had been a high-priced escort in her earlier life. She was married at the time. She said it was great and she made lots of money. One can't generalize about prostitution any more than one can generalize about any other job.

 

[SimonDoom]

One out of 100,000 sex workers does not a trend make. Part-time prostitution between palates, dropping the kids off at school, and going to parties with hubby isn't living off the street. High-priced call girls are a rarified community, and not all of them are voluntarily in that life. Once you're in the life, it isn't always a matter of quitting, and it depends on who you're going through for work. Self-employed prostitutes, even high-priced ones, get busted more often, run as big a risk of hooking up with psycho or rapists. Websites get flagged by cops, and then the girls are screwed by them. Busted or paying for protection.

Making your living from your body eventually isn't going to work.

What do you mean it doesn't work? It's been working for thousands of years. They call it the oldest profession. It will always work. It will always exist.

The problems you cite are the problems that result from criminalization. If it were decriminalized and made respectable like other professions, those problems would go away. People should be in control of their bodies. They are empowered when the law tells them they can do what they want with their bodies.

The problem is that we continue to view sex as something that is DIFFERENT. We cannot look at it without stigma and disapprobation. But we don't have to.

 

[MillieDynamite]

No, the problem is, if you make your living off your looks, sex, or body and nothing else, you get old, wrinkled, and unable to do things. So, when you're guts are hanging out of your pussy, and your fifty, you ain't making a good living any longer. It is not a long-time sustainable profession. When it was legal in the US, women worked in houses for a few years, then took the streets, later the alleys, and later died of the elements, STDs, or a premature old age.

It has never been a profession for long-term prospects. It still isn't. Your friend doesn't do it any longer. It's totally NFL, Not For Long.

What do you mean it doesn't work? It's been working for thousands of years. They call it the oldest profession. It will always work. It will always exist.

The problems you cite are the problems that result from criminalization. If it were decriminalized and made respectable like other professions, those problems would go away. People should be in control of their bodies. They are empowered when the law tells them they can do what they want with their bodies.

The problem is that we continue to view sex as something that is DIFFERENT. We cannot look at it without stigma and disapprobation. But we don't have to.

 

[EmilyMiller]

One out of 100,000 sex workers does not a trend make. Part-time prostitution between palates, dropping the kids off at school, and going to parties with hubby isn't living off the street. High-priced call girls are a rarified community, and not all of them are voluntarily in that life. Once you're in the life, it isn't always a matter of quitting, and it depends on who you're going through for work. Self-employed prostitutes, even high-priced ones, get busted more often, run as big a risk of hooking up with psycho or rapists. Websites get flagged by cops, and then the girls are screwed by them. Busted or paying for protection.

Making your living from your body eventually isn't going to work. No matter how high class you are, time, gravity, and the work take a toll.

You’re right as well, Millie.

It’s like saying a coal miner versus an engineer with a PhD in geology.

Of course life is shit for many (most) sex workers. My only point it’s that it’s wrong to assume that’s 100% of them.

I wanted to write about the 1% as being a different way of life.

I’m agree 99 coal miners for every PhD engineer.

Em

 

[MillieDynamite]

For the record, there are exceptions, but 'the life' is never a till death in my old age profession.

 

[HordHolm]

This is getting interesting @MillieDynamite, @SimonDoom and @EmilyMiller. I think both Simon and Millie are right on the money here, just coming in from different angles. It should be even more than decriminalised - it should be open, above-board, legal, regulated, pension plan and healthcare, holiday pay and maternity/paternity leave. And if we (by which I mean society as a whole) had a more level-headed, un-hysterical approach to it, then maybe we could get there. But Millie is spot on - in a looks based business, fuelled by addiction and abuse, even those in the 1% are in deep personal risk of violence and disease, with a sharp decline unless they can put a wedge of cash together and get the F out of Dodge asap. Which considering that most sex workers are engaged in the profession to feed an addiction is a Utopian end game to say the least.

 

[SimonDoom]

No, the problem is, if you make your living off your looks, sex, or body and nothing else, you get old, wrinkled, and unable to do things. So, when you're guts are hanging out of your pussy, and your fifty, you ain't making a good living any longer. It is not a long-time sustainable profession. When it was legal in the US, women worked in houses for a few years, then took the streets, later the alleys, and later died of the elements, STDs, or a premature old age.

It has never been a profession for long-term prospects. It still isn't. Your friend doesn't do it any longer. It's totally NFL, Not For Long.

But so what? People still make a living in the NFL. People work in the military and often retire early. Many government workers retire early. Many actors and models only make it so long. Athletes in general have short careers.

And I'm not so sure you are correct. There are a lot of hot 50 year olds out there. Standards are changing. People stay youthful longer. There are 50 year old porn stars and escorts. The world is changing.

20 to 30 years is a long term sustainable profession, at least for some. The point is that if it's legal it's a meaningful choice. It could be a bad choice, but that's true of every job.

You can't draw conclusions from when prostitution was "legal" in the past, because that was in the 19th century when women effectively did not have rights, and it was only sort of legal, and highly stigmatized.

 

[CyranoJ]

Anyone who claims to be interested in the risks of violence and abuse should support decriminalization at a minimum. You don't have to buy into "happy hooker" mythology to recognize that sex workers exist who don't get into the business because of coercion, addiction or abuse/"trafficking". It absolutely happens -- cf. the Tate Brothers case -- but it isn't the lens through which everything needs to be viewed. It's very possible you have known some of these "harlots" without realizing it, from cam models of every kind to escorts, strippers, and more.

Living off your looks cannot be long-term. OTOH sex work offers other "outs" that aren't this Dickensian vision of dying in the streets of tuberculosis. I knew a stripper back in the day who is now a tenured professor of Philosophy, b/c SW is one way that people put themselves through school. I knew an escort who today is happily married to a finance guy in Manhattan. There are more than a few ex-pornstars who have gone on to build successful careers as streamers, bloggers, and general media personalities (often talking about sex), or who have left performing to work in the production and management side of the business itself. This isn't to deny that the seamier side of the business exists, but it is to say that reducing it exclusively to the seamier side isn't factually accurate or helpful. To SWers least of all.

 

[AchtungNight]

No, the problem is, if you make your living off your looks, sex, or body and nothing else, you get old, wrinkled, and unable to do things. So, when you're guts are hanging out of your pussy, and your fifty, you ain't making a good living any longer. It is not a long-time sustainable profession. When it was legal in the US, women worked in houses for a few years, then took the streets, later the alleys, and later died of the elements, STDs, or a premature old age.

It has never been a profession for long-term prospects. It still isn't. Your friend doesn't do it any longer. It's totally NFL, Not For Long.

For the record, the good-looking sex-positive people in my ficverse (most of whom are not sex workers officially) will be having fulfilling erotic lives long into their old age. Some crazy anti-aging treatments will help and what I show onscreen will probably be mostly flashbacks- but it will happen.

 

[MillieDynamite]

You think, even where it is legal, the woman has rights? I'd bet my bottom dollar it's rigged for the house there as well. No matter the laws, no matter good intentions, without unions, and no one crosses the picket lines, women will always be abused by the powers that be when it comes to sex workers.

But so what? People still make a living in the NFL. People work in the military and often retire early. Many government workers retire early. Many actors and models only make it so long. Athletes in general have short careers.

And I'm not so sure you are correct. There are a lot of hot 50 year olds out there. Standards are changing. People stay youthful longer. There are 50 year old porn stars and escorts. The world is changing.

20 to 30 years is a long term sustainable profession, at least for some. The point is that if it's legal it's a meaningful choice. It could be a bad choice, but that's true of every job.

You can't draw conclusions from when prostitution was "legal" in the past, because that was in the 19th century when women effectively did not have rights, and it was only sort of legal, and highly stigmatized.

 

[HordHolm]

You think, even where it is legal, the woman has rights? I'd bet my bottom dollar it's rigged for the house there as well. No matter the laws, no matter good intentions, without unions, and no one crosses the picket lines, women will always be abused by the powers that be when it comes to sex workers.

The laws in Germany are very progressive, but once the authorities started investigating the legal locations, what did they find? Establishments full of trafficked girls, of course. I agree with you - at the absolute bottom is the need for the sex workers to unionise, followed by the authorities coming in on the side of the workers. I'm not going to hold my breath, though...

 

[SimonDoom]

You think, even where it is legal, the woman has rights? I'd bet my bottom dollar it's rigged for the house there as well. No matter the laws, no matter good intentions, without unions, and no one crosses the picket lines, women will always be abused by the powers that be when it comes to sex workers.

Even if there's a lot of truth to that, it's not a reason against decriminalization. All the things you are concerned about exist in a state of criminalizing a woman's ability to exploit her sexuality. Legalizing things doesn't bring about paradise, but there is no paradise. The only question is whether it makes things better.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I just don't want women entering into it thinking it's glamorous, or that they'll get rich, or that your manager, agent, or pimp is going to protect you. That's what he'll claim, but that isn't his job, keeping you out hustling his job and taking as much of your hard-earned money from you as he possibly can. Legal or not, a prostitute is a commodity and only worth to management (legal or otherwise) what her last trick earned them, not her, but them. It's a dirty business selling sex. It will always be a dirty business. From personal experience, it's hard on your self-esteem and demoralizes you. You're selling the most intimate act there is. How do you put a price on that?

Yes, I have a stilted view. But I earned my view the old-fashioned way. I lived on the streets.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

The problems you cite are the problems that result from criminalization. If it were decriminalized and made respectable like other professions, those problems would go away. People should be in control of their bodies. They are empowered when the law tells them they can do what they want with their bodies.

The problem is that we continue to view sex as something that is DIFFERENT. We cannot look at it without stigma and disapprobation. But we don't have to.

I kinda have to second what @HordHolm mentioned before.

The prostitution laws in Germany are VERY liberal. After they changed their laws twenty years ago, the prostitutes became workers like everyone else. Meaning: Full health insurance, vacation days, the whole nine yards. And, since it had been passed, the patron count on those establishments rose by round about 60%.

But, according to a study done ten years after the law had been passed, turned out that sex trafficking had also increased by round about 60%. Because, while the German federal government fully decriminalized prostitution and enabled the brothels to rent proper buildings with proper facilities, they left it to the states to implement regular checks of those facilities. And many of those states are still against allowing prostitution and have no interest in supporting it. Which, sadly, includes making sure those people are safe and properly employed.

So, it's not like just decriminalizing would solve all the problems. It is, and always has been, a profession attracting a certain kind of clientele that places prostitutes in a heightened need for protection.

P.S.: Please also keep in mind that Germany is the country with naked tits on primetime TV and in public pools. They already were rather liberal when it came to prostitution, they just needed to regulate it better.