Do you believe in magic ... in a young girl's heart?

[Z_TheWriter]

I think a lot of attention is given (here yes, but also generally everywhere) to the distinction people see between lust and affection, infatuation and devotion, between being in love and loving. I am standing by my original statement, so I will not comment on whether this is so for the speakers. But I personally do not feel it is that clear and binary a distinction.

To me at least, romantic love is intertwined with lust, with fascination, with familiarity, with empathy and so on. The love you feel for a person is not separate, but a larger sum of all these things - weighted differently depending on circumstance. Not that you can't have sexual desire for a person without any deeper feelings obviously. Or love your family without lust.

Certainly there is a question of how well you understand the person(s) in question. Your feelings almost certainly will change or even fade over time as you come to know them better and perhaps find they are different than you thought. This will also happen due to your shared experiences or because you both change separately or together. I do not think this cheapens the initial feelings though. They were true in that moment, which is really always the case - nothing is actually permanent and immutable.

Can your initial feelings for a person lead you astray and into a bad situation? Absolutely. So can your well established lingering devotion to a partner who is no longer good for you. Neither of those things mean you didn't feel that way though.

Or I'm just a hopeless romantic who is damaged by having a father who studied philosophy

 

[iwatchus]

Are you sure they weren't trying to ask what you were feeling? (More than just saying "love)

In the context of that conversation and knowing the person who asked me that, I am quite certain.

 

[iwatchus]

Personally I don't believe in "love at first sight," or "soul mates," or "true love," I think there are too many failed or unhappy relationships and marriages in the world of people that were convinced that they had found their Cosmic Partner who just happened to be in the same high school graduating class or whatever.

I believe we each have compatibilities and attractions that all exist on a bunch of different axes and planes, like a complicated multi-dimensional manifold.
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and I think we find people in our lives that intersect with some of those planes, and the more planes that match up, the more compatible we are with them. And when you recognize the right combination of compatibilities, it feels like attraction or love

Not where I would have guessed you would have come down in this conversation.

I don't believe in true love in some sense that there is only one person in world you are destined to be with. Nor do I think that love conquers all and all loving relationships will last forever.

True love to me is something that is tied to your existence deep down in your soul. (I say soul, but I'm not religious and I guess what I mean is somewhere deep in your subconscious.) It is enduring. Someone earlier said it means you care about their happiness more than your own. There is definitely some of that in it, but I don't think love is completely that selfless. Seeing the person you love or talking to them or interacting with them in anyway brings you happiness. Love can be very selfish in its own way, craving those interactions.

But just because you love someone does not mean you can get along with them. I have never been cursed with this, but I have known people who were deeply in love, but something about the other drove them crazy. One of my best friends went through a very tragic relationship many decades ago that still haunts him to this day.

For me, love is almost eternal (at least for your lifetime). I don't think your soul ever quite releases its feelings for a person, If fades so it no longer dominates your day to day feelings, but lives with you for the rest of your life.

 

[Off_base]

Love is a verb

 

[Z_TheWriter]

But just because you love someone does not mean you can get along with them. I have never been cursed with this, but I have known people who were deeply in love, but something about the other drove them crazy.

This reminded me of a couple I knew who very much loved each other. They had discovered, however, that they absolutely could not stand living together. They would annoy each other to the point where both were furious almost daily.

Instead of breaking up, they got apartments in adjacent buildings, and had been married for two years when I met them.

 

[Statius]

Alright mom...

** whispers at @SamanthaBehgs **
You wanna sneak away and jump in puddles? We can see who can ruin their clothes the most before she catches us.

Mom? Although I don't like 'Daddy' either.

 

[PennyThompson]

Not where I would have guessed you would have come down in this conversation.

I'm a... Romantic Materialist

I also agree with the people saying that love is an active verb and an intentional choice, requiring maintenance and cultivation.

 

[iwatchus]

I'm a... Romantic Materialist

I also agree with the people saying that love is an active verb and an intentional choice, requiring maintenance and cultivation.

I don't think there is anything I could do to excise my love for any of the four women I have been in love. Am still in love with.

A loving relationship requires maintenance and cultivation. Love and a loving relationship are tied together, but not the same thing.

I believe you can nurture and grow a love with someone over time, it's just never happened with me.

 

[Britva415]

"Love at first sight" is an idealization. It does occasionally happen/come true, but not often enough for humanity to justify turning it into anything to "believe in."

Even when it happens, it can still go to shit and you still have to work at it for it to be tangible "love" and not just limerent feelings.

It's a bit like the saying (which I know some Christians don't believe in, but some do) "faith without works is dead."

I'm not Christian myself but I do believe that.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

This reminded me of a couple I knew who very much loved each other. They had discovered, however, that they absolutely could not stand living together. They would annoy each other to the point where both were furious almost daily.

Instead of breaking up, they got apartments in adjacent buildings, and had been married for two years when I met them.

A couple of my parents' friends had been happily married for over 30 years - plus less happily for a few before that. He lived in London, she lived in Paris. The children mostly lived in Paris during term time and London for holidays.

One of the few things the spouse and I disagree about is that he claims he can't help falling in love with people. He used to claim that no-one could, until realising that I wasn't exaggerating - there are people I have carefully ensured I don't fall in love with despite the temptation. He theorises I might be equally prone to falling in love, just I do it at a glacial pace.

Certainly now I don't really have any love capacity spare, though I wouldn't be averse to a few more lust objects.

What's love but a second-hand emotion, anyway?

 

[iwatchus]

One of the few things the spouse and I disagree about is that he claims he can't help falling in love with people. He used to claim that no-one could, until realising that I wasn't exaggerating - there are people I have carefully ensured I don't fall in love with despite the temptation.

I have no idea how to not fall in love with someone. And in none of my cases was I expecting to fall in love with the person I did (or at all).

What's love but a second-hand emotion, anyway?

I like the song musically, but I despise that line.

 

[SamanthaBehgs]

Mom? Although I don't like 'Daddy' either.

You can't tell me what to do, you're not my REAL dad!

**continues whispering with @Z_TheWriter **

 

[Statius]

You can't tell me what to do, you're not my REAL dad!

**continues whispering with @Z_TheWriter **

Ha! Trouble makers! Kids these days. No respect, no respect!

 

[redgarters]

If there ever was an AH thread for Master Haddaway...

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I like the song musically, but I despise that line.

That's probably the best line in the song. It's not a statement condemning love. It's the jaded narrator of the song expressing her jadedness, just looking for sex and fleeting intimacy not believing that she can find love again after getting burned. Kind of like a child losing a video game and thinking, "pfft, stupid game!" and quitting. It's quite sad and makes for a strong emotion. Probably why the song was so popular.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I also agree with the people saying that love is an active verb and an intentional choice, requiring maintenance and cultivation.

Love requires no maintenance nor cultivation. Relationships do. Best not to confuse them.

 

[THBGato]

Love requires no maintenance nor cultivation. Relationships do. Best not to confuse them.

Respectfully, I disagree. Love doesn't spring up fully formed - it has to grow from something and be cultivated in the sense that the people involved must allow it the time, space and conditions to grow.

this bud of love may, by summer's ripening breath, a beauteous flower prove

Also maintenance: taking love for granted strikes me as a sure-fire way to inflame resentment.

Besides, aside from unrequited love (which is surely just infatuation) how can one have love without a relationship? Whether it's eros, agape, storge, ludos, etc, surely the relationship is the expression of love? As you maintain that relationship, so you maintain love.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Respectfully, I disagree. Love doesn't spring up fully formed - it has to grow from something and be cultivated in the sense that the people involved must allow it the time, space and conditions to grow.

this bud of love may, by summer's ripening breath, a beauteous flower prove

Also maintenance: taking love for granted strikes me as a sure-fire way to inflame resentment.

Besides, aside from unrequited love (which is surely just infatuation) how can one have love without a relationship? Whether it's eros, agape, storge, ludos, etc, surely the relationship is the expression of love? As you maintain that relationship, so you maintain love.

You are talking specifically about romantic love it seems. In this context that does make sense. But this is why almost no one on this planet fully understands love, certainly in the English speaking world where the word love has a ba-jillion different meanings. Understandably, how can we as a culture or as individuals not be confused? So again I assert, do not mix romance and relationships with actual love. True love is simply the gift of allowing. It is empowerment. Nothing more. All of those other things that we also call love are different things that we foolishly have the same word for. ; )

 

[Off_base]

Sometimes, fighting the  strong urge to make a snarky reply is a form of love.

 

[Off_base]

 

[iwatchus]

That's probably the best line in the song. It's not a statement condemning love. It's the jaded narrator of the song expressing her jadedness, just looking for sex and fleeting intimacy not believing that she can find love again after getting burned. Kind of like a child losing a video game and thinking, "pfft, stupid game!" and quitting. It's quite sad and makes for a strong emotion. Probably why the song was so popular.

I understand that. And I respect the line at one level. But that was an era where a lot of the music professed an opinion that the singer was too cool to be fooled by love. For me at the time, that line epitomized that cultural push. It's really part of the same cultural push as Gordon Geko's "Greed is Good".

I will distinguish it from the free love sense of the late 60's, epitomized by Stephen Stills' "Love the One You're With", which irks my wife the way second hand emotion does me.

 

[Statius]

I understand that. And I respect the line at one level. But that was an era where a lot of the music professed an opinion that the singer was too cool to be fooled by love. For me at the time, that line epitomized that cultural push. It's really part of the same cultural push as Gordon Geko's "Greed is Good".

I will distinguish it from the free love sense of the late 60's, epitomized by Stephen Stills' "Love the One You're With", which irks my wife the way second hand emotion does me.

Is it possible that song had something to do with Ike and the abusive relationship she was in or whoever wrote it? Reading the lyrics sounds like she's distinguishing love from physical attraction/ desire.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

"Love the One You're With"

This is an odd one, quite double-edged. On one hand I think that the lyric was intended as a positive, to see the good side of you everyday situation, but on the other it has always smacked me of, "settle for less dammit!"

 

[Statius]

This is an odd one, quite double-edged. On one hand I think that the lyric was intended as a positive, to see the good side of you everyday situation, but on the other it has always smacked me of, "settle for less dammit!"

Always kinda thought that myself about that one. Has the feel of settling rather than pursuing someone worthy of you and/ or what you deserve in a partner. I'm sure it's more about stop chasing butterflies but still.

 

[iwatchus]

This is an odd one, quite double-edged. On one hand I think that the lyric was intended as a positive, to see the good side of you everyday situation, but on the other it has always smacked me of, "settle for less dammit!"

I also know the context of his writing that song. He had been suicidal over his break up with Judy Collins. Four + Twenty Years is the flip side for him.