Dom/sub...what are you?

[cymbidia]

I'm a sub.

More specifically, i'm a lifestyle masochistic submissive.

I'm well-educated, have a great job, good kids, a nice home, and vacations homes cars jewelry money stocks bonds stuff. To almost any observer, i don't look like some kinda sex freak. Except for a couple long-ago incidents when i was unsure of who i was and what my kind of "submissive" meant, i've never been physically hurt without it being a mutually desired part of what was between me and another.

My Master is like me.

Underneath it all, we're pierced and tattooed and we play very hard, very edgy BDSM games. We do so because we need it, because it's an integral part of who we are as people and sexual beings, and because we've found in each other incredible complements to our needs.

I trust him with my life, literally at times. He trusts me with his deepest self, with his happiness, and his needs. I love him. He loves me. What lies between us is of immense value.

I am submissive to him, and not only in the bedroom. In public my submission is couched in terms that are private, in a manner that allows us to maintain the appearance of "normalcy". We do that because nillas just don't understand this lifestyle and confuse a full-hearted, committed BDSM bond with something embarrassing and shameful. We do that because what lies between us is ours and we don't feel a need to shove it in anyone's face.

I am submissive and always have been, from the time of my first sexual experimentation. It wasn't a choice and isn't a sex game. It's as much a part of who i am as is my heart.

 

[DarlingBri]

Can I ask...

And obviously, you don't have to tell me...

But I've always wanted to know the HOW of doms and subs go about finding each other. Do you fall in love with someone, hoping they can meet this need? Do you ONLY date people who are Doms, and therefore only fall in love with them? How do you know they are?

Sorry if this is really stupid, but the mechanics of how people with specialised lifestyle needs has always interested me.

 

[nytbrat]

my work demands that i be in control at all times,so when i'm not working i enjoy being submissive...i i looked up bdsm on the internet when i became interested and found groups in my area...
~brat

 

[Nicole]

Re: Re: There is a difference...

The issue of control is key. Nicole *chooses* to give control to her husband. It is actually hers to take back. She hasn't had it beaten out of her. Women is abusive relationships cannot take control back.

You are absolutely correct.

Cheyenne...no flaming for an honest and very good question.

Typical and true submissive women are very STRONG women. We GIVE the control to our Doms, and a true Dom recognizes that it is a GIFT not a ticket to abuse. It is very much about balance. A lot of Dom men are very laid back and non-controlling in other aspects of their lives, hence the balance.

I can see how "wannabe" submissive women could find themselves in abusive relationships, but the key to that is that they aren't true "submissives". A true submissive woman knows her limits and knows enough about herself to pick and choose very carefully. I know that I could never end up in that type relationship...the first time my husband or any man berated me in public or slapped me in the face... I would kill the bastard. Yet in the bedroom...I am totally and completely his to control (with established limits). Communication is the key like in any other style of relationship.

First up, I'm not Married and probably never will be, it's complicated but I'm happy

Secondly, I am in no way abused, never have been and never will be. I am SUBMISSIVE, I am also Human, and I would be the first to walk if my partner was to even think about laying a hand on me away from a sexual encounter. He is aware of this fact.

I choose (as is my right) to give myself over, just because I am willing to do that, to please my man, doesn't mean I'm heading or have headed for an abusive relationship.

Brazen stated it perfectly .... submissive women are very STRONG women. We GIVE the control to our Doms, and a true Dom recognizes that it is a GIFT not a ticket to abuse. It is very much about balance.

Don't you think we talk to our partners? In Fact as a sub, I'm going to spend more time talking to my partner than I would being his equal. I need him to know what my boundaries are, what I'm feeling and thinking at that point in time. Doms and subs have safe words, when the Dom crosses that line you let them know, to find that safe word you must talk. It's really not that hard to understand. As a Dom they need us to know what their inner feelings are and what we must do to please them. It's all in the power of communication, something a Dom and his sub share.

I'm sorry but some of us want to please our men, not be equal with them, sorry if that should upset so many of you that "have worked so hard" to make things equal.

I happen to want to be controlled .... IN THE BEDROOM, outside of the bedroom, although I will still do anything to please my partner, I'm still in control of who I am, How my mind works, and What decisions I make.

It's a lifestyle choice that I made a long time ago, and one that I'm happy with, and very comfortable with.

Just as some of you will never understand why we choose to be this way, I'll never understand why women want to be equal to a man, they are so different and work in so many different ways, Why would you want to be equal to them I'm talking in the bedroom here people.

This is just my thoughts, and I respect others thoughts on the matter BUT don't put me down because I choose to be this way, don't think yourself better than me because you want to be equal. On the outside I'm just like you are, taking control of a situation when it's called for, but once with my partner and we are in the confines of our own minds then I choose to be his, body, mind, soul, spirit. I see nothing wrong with it.

Oh and just so you know, I'm very much in control of who I am and what I decide, obviously I am, otherwise I wouldn't be where I am today.

Sorry this post was so long, I just needed to try to get across that Just because I'm submissive, doesn't mean you can walk all over me.

 

[bluntforcemama]

I'm an equal opportunity fucker, although I like to be submissive at times, but it has to be VERY specific. I will not submit all control. It's just not part of who I am. But my machine gun.... now that's another story.

http://www.aaconsult.com/machinegun/Pictures/Mvc-016f.jpg

Come on, asshole, let's play... fuck my semi automatic.


[Edited by Myst on 04-08-2001 at 04:02 PM]

 

[cymbidia]

Submitting, yielding my sexuality, my responses and pleasures, to a Dominant who knows and cares what my needs are, who has the ability to draw from me depth and focus in all our variations of lovemaking, is exquisite beyond description.

Such must be the case between all emotionally-bonded people.

We who practice BDSM within our relationships aren't really too much different than those who desire oral sex every single time they're together or those who want to lick and suck their partners toes on occasion or even those who really get off on the missionary position and want nothing else.

All forms of sexuality, when they're shared and not just solitary masturbation, are in essence simply a way to keep the dark lonely cold at bay. It's a good method to stave off looking at the ultimate singularity of our existence but it *is* just a coping mechanism. We're driven by our genes to reproduce; orgasm is the big payoff for doing such an undignified (and potentially dangerous) deed.

With a couple million years of evolution behind us, with all the variations in human phenotype, it stands to reason that we should be as diverse in our sexual needs as we are in our eye color. Why point fingers of disgust at that which doesn't appeal to you? Surely there's at least a couple million people on the planet who need what you need, in terms of sexuality, right? Pass by those of us who don't suit your needs and look elsewhere, without all the finger pointing. Such is the result of too much adherence to "moral authority" in my opinion.

Sexually submissive women are not abused women.
Abused women don't have the right to say "no"; almost all sexually submissive women (and men) have that right as our #1 guarantee. "Safe, sane and consensual" is the motto of almost everyone and every group under the BDSM umbrella.

Sexually submissive women are not dumb creatures who don't know what it is to be strong.
We know. We are. We'll continue to be.

Submission is the means whereby our sexuality is most deeply touched. It's part of who we are as sexual beings, just as its absence may be part of who you are.


[Edited by cymbidia on 04-08-2001 at 06:09 PM]

 

[Nicole]

Here Here, well stated and said.

 

[SpectreT]

Why?

Two things, one a legitimate (to me anyway) whine, and another a dry chuckle.

First, the Whine:

Why is it that discussions of D/S and S/M (or any combination thereof) relationships *always* draw the confused and uninitiated to make parallels to abuse? Nicole, cymbidia, Few seem to truly grasp that submissives are *STRONG* people, or that that strength comes from self-knowledge, self-discovery, and fulfilment. Few outside such a relationship understand the *RESPECT* that a Dom has for a Sub, or even that such respect exists. I am (somewhat) humbled by your commitment, and frankly, a little envious of the fact that you seem to be in such good relationships.

DarlingBri, I have no clue how to start such a relationship, the one I was in seemed to grow out of a vanilla one, we just seemed to have similar urges to explore, and did so.

Now on to the Cheese to compliment the Whine:

I work in a bookstore, and noticed we had DeSade's works (Justine, 120 Days of Sodom, Juliette, et. al.) in our "literature" department, and Masoch's "Venus in Furs" in "Erotica". Someone please explain that.

 

[cymbidia]

Re: Can I ask...

But I've always wanted to know the HOW of doms and subs go about finding each other. Do you fall in love with someone, hoping they can meet this need? Do you ONLY date people who are Doms, and therefore only fall in love with them? How do you know they are?

DarlingBri, it's not a stupid question. The only stupid question is the one you don't ask. (That's what i tell my students and i really believe it, too.)

Before the net, finding a likeminded BDSM partner was sometimes a tough thing to do. Essentially, you had to hang out at the right clubs, meet the right kinds of people, and get to know their friends. It was very much a closed sort of lifestyle back then, the protectiveness due to raging misunderstandings in nilla society about what BDSM was and the (not inconsiderate) fact that much of what many BDSM enthusiasts chose to do in the privacy of their own homes was illegal. One could go to jail then for doing what we so freely do now.

So you hid what you were, hid what you needed, and tried like hell to find people that were like you.

And there were a lot of us around, just not the vast numbers that are here today, and certainly, never, as "out" about it. Still, if you persevered or got lucky, you found the others. Then you simply went to their parties and got to know them. If you moved, you got names and addresses and phone numbers of people like you in the new town. It was very much an underground lifestyle back then.

Along came the net and life for us changed dramatically. I think BDSM'ers had to be among the first cohesive groups to coalesce out of the chaotic slipstream of the early net days. I know i was using the net to talk on BB's and in rudimentary chat rooms with others like me in 1992. Suddenly we were not only able to talk to a huge variety of lifestylers about our concerns, but there were thousands and then millions of people who came looking for info, curious people, people in search of answers or new thrills or looking to fill that empty place in their sexuality with *something*.

Now, of course, there's several good and many bad personals places devoted to BDSM in all it's wonderful forms. Additionally, there's Munch groups in almost every town in the United States and Canada, maybe around the world. There are resources in the yellow pages. BDSM is no longer the forbidden activity it once was. We no longer go to jail for doing what we need to do, safely, sanely, and consensually. We're almost mainstream!

And, personally, i've always sought like-minded people as partners. I've not had more than a couple strictly nilla relationships in my life. It's just not the way i'm wired. Extremely kinked people, strong Doms who know what they want and know how to pull from me what i need to give, are the only kind of people that i've ever sought, the only kind of people that i get wet for. (Well, you asked!)

 

[Cheyenne]

Re: Re: Re: There is a difference...

...I'm sorry but some of us want to please our men, not be equal with them, sorry if that should upset so many of you that "have worked so hard" to make things equal.

This is just my thoughts, and I respect others thoughts on the matter BUT don't put me down because I choose to be this way, don't think yourself better than me because you want to be equal. On the outside I'm just like you are, taking control of a situation when it's called for, but once with my partner and we are in the confines of our own minds then I choose to be his, body, mind, soul, spirit. I see nothing wrong with it.

?? I didn't see a single person on this thread say anything about being upset because they've worked so hard to make things equal and you don't want to be equal. I didn't see anyone put you down, either, or say they were better than you.

If it was my questions you were referring to, now you see why I started them with "don't flame me please."

 

[SpectreT]

to Cheyenne

I hope no-one's flaming you, your post was the kind I enjoy seeing; one that begins by admitting a point of ignorance, and seeking to rectify that before it becomes a misunderstanding. I just wish "ignorance" were not such a loaded word. I meant it in its traditional sense of "lacking information". And I'm sure your question has been somewhat answered, if in a preachy way, by the enthusiasts here at lit. can anyone suggest reading material suited for the edification of vanilla people so they can maybe understand this a little better? I'm still kind of new, and still exploring, and that's more than half the fun, or so I'm led to believe...

 

[brazenblaze]

Links

Can anyone suggest reading material suited for the edification of vanilla people so they can maybe understand this a little better? I'm still kind of new, and still exploring, and that's more than half the fun, or so I'm led to believe...

Here are just a few of my favorites...the first one explores bdsm, D/s and tons of other things for the curious minded. Hope this helps.

www.bdsm-online.com/welcome2.htm

http://members.aol.com/dynasty57/safe.html

www.mouse-works.com/subnationj/main.html

http://nerve.com

www.powerotics.com

http://sandm.com

http://gloria-brame.com/subintro.htm

 

[cymbidia]

Re: Links

Can anyone suggest reading material suited for the edification of vanilla people so they can maybe understand this a little better? I'm still kind of new, and still exploring, and that's more than half the fun, or so I'm led to believe...

...and here's a couple more sites that offer basic BDSM info to add to the excellent list brazenblaze has offered:

(1) http://www.unrealities.com/adult/ssbb/faq.htm (skip all the junk on top and go to the FAQ links themselves)

(2) http://www.sexuality.org/l/bdsm/handb_tw.html


Very cool quote in your sig block, brazenblaze, btw. Where's it from? Sounds vaguely biblical...

 

[willywanker]

one mans opinion

I am not really of the Dom/Sub lifestyle. I, like some of the others who have posted, own and run my own business. I have total control since it is a one man operation. I have to deal with everything.

But that really has nothing to do with what I like sexually. I would say for the most part I would play the Dom role, I like to be in control of what position we are in, for example. But it is a major turnon for my significant other to take over sometime. It doesn't happen often and I wouldn't enjoy it all the time but it is a great change of pace for me to slip into the sub role.

I am not into bondage or pain and as some have stated these don't have to be present for Dom/Sub roles. In general, I guess I really view sex as more of a partnership than one or the other being in charge. Someone always has to make decisions or the first moves but as long as we are both comfortable with those choices, who makes them isn't really important to me.

 

[Gingersnap]

Don't be calling me Vanilla

It seems to me two people exploring each other in a sexual way is not exclusive to the alphabet world. It has been my experience that I can be many different women when making love. Sometimes wanton or shy or demanding or wild, you get the picture. It seems to me and I am asking here doesn't it get old to "surrender" everytime. Operating within the strict limits of your roles seems to me very predictable.
I am a spontaneous kind of girl and I will not define myself as dom, sub, bubba or vanilla.
The last thing I ever want to do after fantastic sex is disect it. But I also realize that some people would seek to "reinvent the wheel"...... Me I just get on and ride.

 

[DarlingBri]

Cym...

Thank you for your time and your answers

 

[DarlingBri]

Re: Why?

I work in a bookstore, and noticed we had DeSade's works (Justine, 120 Days of Sodom, Juliette, et. al.) in our "literature" department, and Masoch's "Venus in Furs" in "Erotica". Someone please explain that.

Because once it becomes mainstream University grist, it's no longer erotica, it's "Literature." (As if erotica isn't, but never mind.) DeSade is very "hot" in classrooms right now.

Also, I'd check the publishers; personally, I'd be curious to see if it made a difference.

I hope you're enjoying your staff discount at the bookstore, SpectreT

[Edited by DarlingBri on 04-09-2001 at 02:20 PM]

 

[Nicole]

Re: Re: Re: Re: There is a difference...

...I'm sorry but some of us want to please our men, not be equal with them, sorry if that should upset so many of you that "have worked so hard" to make things equal.

This is just my thoughts, and I respect others thoughts on the matter BUT don't put me down because I choose to be this way, don't think yourself better than me because you want to be equal. On the outside I'm just like you are, taking control of a situation when it's called for, but once with my partner and we are in the confines of our own minds then I choose to be his, body, mind, soul, spirit. I see nothing wrong with it.

?? I didn't see a single person on this thread say anything about being upset because they've worked so hard to make things equal and you don't want to be equal. I didn't see anyone put you down, either, or say they were better than you.

If it was my questions you were referring to, now you see why I started them with "don't flame me please."

I didn't flame you at all, I said what was on my mind. Sorry if you took that as a Flame.

 

[WriterDom]

Re: Can I ask...

And obviously, you don't have to tell me...

But I've always wanted to know the HOW of doms and subs go about finding each other. Do you fall in love with someone, hoping they can meet this need? Do you ONLY date people who are Doms, and therefore only fall in love with them? How do you know they are?

Sorry if this is really stupid, but the mechanics of how people with specialised lifestyle needs has always interested me.

Seems like a spiral effect to me. As you get more involved, you tend to seek out others that you know want the same things. I don't think people paired with vanilla partners who learn of these desires are very successful at convincing their partners that D/s should be an important part of their lives.

 

[Havocman]

I am what I am and that's all that I am!

Now someone bring me that cane leaning in the corner...Who asked this impertinent question anyway?

Havoc
*tapping cane against side of leg*

 

[brazenblaze]

Re: Re: Links

Very cool quote in your sig block, brazenblaze, btw. Where's it from? Sounds vaguely biblical...

The Sharp edge of Love by Galen...."Arlana" used it when referring to how she dealt with people passing judgement on her "lifestyle" choice. The book wasn't all that great, but that line stuck with me.

 

[Nicole]

For people who wonder about a D/s relationship and often feel it is
"degrading" to a woman, this should clear it up. True D/s involves
much love, respect, and trust. Here is what one Master wrote and
I agreed with it completely. To me it epitomizes everything that
should be in every D/s relationship.

As it is often important and often even necessary for one human
being to have certainty and a clear understanding of the intentions,
desires, motivations, and needs of another, I offer this testimony in
trust and sincerity.

I am a dominant man. I am just that. I am not dominant because of
any superiority on my part. Not because I feel more intelligent or wiser.
I am not dominant because of the strength or the mass of my body.
I am not, nor would I want to be dominant with all women.
Yet, to you I am Master.

I am your Master only after earning your trust and I embrace your
submissiveness. I have looked into your heart and mind, and clearly
see your desires and passions. You have thrown away your desires
and passions. You have thrown away your fears and inhibitions.
You tell me of the needs of your heart and body. You have given me
total access to your soul, and I accept the responsibility and honor.

You are a woman. You are not weak or inferior because of it. You
are a treasure to be cherished. We are not equal. I have the strength
of body and mind and the instinctive need to protect, possess, defend,
and provide for you. You are a woman and instinctively stronger of
will and heart. Your belief in me gives me courage and direction.
Your strength disperses my doubt.
Your needs and desires encourage and give purpose to my efforts.

We are not equal. We are halves of a whole. We complement each
other and make each other complete. My desire to dominate you is
instinctive. It is not to degrade you nor is it degrading to you
because you are secure in being totally feminine. We each recognize
and accept our worth, and our need for someone to trust and fulfill our needs.

You are sure, strong, and proud in your womanhood. You do not submit
as acceptance of inferiority, but from strength and passion. You expect a
man to stand strong and be a man. You desire and flourish in the strength
and control of a man. In return you present control of your body,
unqualified trust and honesty, and the faithfulness of your heart. You
submit because I have earned your trust. Because I have opened my
heart and soul to you. Because I have listened to your word with my
ears and heart and have learned to anticipate your needs and emotions.
And because I have proven worthy in your eyes, you have given me the
only true treasure of life; you have given me dominance over you.

What you give is not abnormal, but pure, natural, and the rarest gift a
woman can give a man. You have given me complete and unshakable
assurance of your commitment to be. Your submissiveness is a
magnificent gift and sacred responsibility. I accept this from you with humility
and joy. I understand the rarity and purity of this gift.
I recognize it is your body, mind, and soul. I dominate you only because you
have allowed me to, and when I see your body kneel before me in my mind
and heart, you are raised above all other women and all the treasures of the earth.

Within the bounds of our relationship...it is my duty to protect you,
and that you will know, that under my care;
NO harm will come to you as a result of actions taken by Me..or you.
That is my responsibility, to protect you..from yourself if necessary.

What you give freely cannot in reality be bought.

 

[Nicole]

I Am a Submissive Woman
Author Unknown


I find pleasure, joy, and fulfillment from being submissive to another in a loving relationship.
I am not weak, or stupid. I am a strong woman, with firm views and a clear concept of what I want out of my life.
I do not serve out of shame or weakness, but out of pride and strength.
I look to my loving Master for guidance and protection, for never am I more complete than when he is with me.
I know that he will protect my body, my mind, and my soul with his strength and wisdom.
He is everything to me, as I am everything to him. His touch awakens me and his thoughts free me.
Only in serving him do I find complete freedom and joy.

His punishments are harsh, but I accept them thankfully, knowing that he has my best interests always foremost in his mind.
If he desires my body for pleasure, I shall joyfully give it to him, and take pleasure myself from knowing that I have brought him happiness.
However, the pleasure of the flesh is but one facet of any relationship.
The love, the trust and sharing, the words spoken and felt, those are all parts of this relationship.

My body is his, and if he says I am beautiful, then I am.
No matter what I look like to others, I am beautiful in his eyes, and because of that I hold my head high... ..
for who can tell me that my Master is wrong in seeing the beauty in me?
If he says I am his princess, then I am that...regal and graceful.
And if I see laughter at me in the eyes of others, I do not recognize it, for who are they to call my Master wrong?

If he says I am his toy, his slut, his tramp, then I am that...as wanton and dirty as he wants me to be, and if others do not see this, then it is they who are blind, not my Master.
My mind is his, to expand, to explore, to know as only he can. I have no secrets from him...for secrets are a thing that would keep me from being more perfectly his.
Secrets would put a wall up between my Master and myself...and I do not want walls.

soHis lessons are not always ones I would seek on my own, but they are lessons he has decided I need, and so I learn from him.
My soul is his, as bare to his touch as ever my skin could be when I kneel naked at his feet.
Never a moment goes by when I do not feel his presence, be he miles away or standing over me.
If I were to ever displease him, his displeasure would be a blow to my soul, worse punishment than any lashes could be.
The anguish of my soul that I feel when I disappoint him is harder to bear than the physical anguish I feel when his belt caresses me with fire.
I spend my days knowing that the energy and thought he puts into our relationship is as much for my benefit as for his, and look forward to each lovingly crafted scene that we do together.

soHis part is much harder than mine, and I know this and am grateful that he cares enough about me to spend his time and energy so freely on me.
I have the easier job: to feel, to experience, to let myself go and abandon everything to him.
I am his pleasure and his responsibility, and he takes both seriously. I am a submissive woman. I am proud to call myself that.
My submission is a gift that I do not give lightly, and can only be given to one who can appreciate that gift and return it tenfold.

Only to he who has that strength will I give myself fully, because I am strong and proud.

I am a submissive woman.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Vanilla?

I can glean the meaning from the way some of you have used it, but I would be interested if someone feels like defining it in detail.

 

[Nicole]

Do the last two posts I made help anyone understand us more??

Thanks for the links guys, I've been doing a lot of self finding today.