Drones against the Kremlin

[Rightguide]

THE EMBASSY​

Forget Ukraine: Did Russians Try To Kill Putin?​

The Kremlin drone incident could have been a way to signal the oligarchs are restless. If several Russian elites disappear in the coming days, that may answer the question of who was behind the incident. Putin, after all, has his own ways of sending a message.

By
James Robbins

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2023/05/forget-ukraine-did-russians-try-to-kill-putin/

Who knows?

 

[Lazaran]

THE EMBASSY​

Forget Ukraine: Did Russians Try To Kill Putin?​

The Kremlin drone incident could have been a way to signal the oligarchs are restless. If several Russian elites disappear in the coming days, that may answer the question of who was behind the incident. Putin, after all, has his own ways of sending a message.

By
James Robbins

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2023/05/forget-ukraine-did-russians-try-to-kill-putin/

Who knows?

Quoted for posterity and stupidity.

Putin orchestrated the false flag “drone attack” to manufacture outrage and portray himself as the persecuted victim.

That ^ is a tactic “Right”guide and other RWCJ “members” should be quite familiar with; considering they constantly employ it.

“Right”guide and RWCJ “members”

 

[Holy_Seduction]

You're a Russian stooge.

Feel free to substantiate that at any time. I’ve indicated that President Putin and those around him stand to be prosecuted for crimes of war against peace. How that constitutes one a stooge for Putin I cannot guess. Perhaps it is because likewise, I make the same assertions regarding President Biden and those around him.

Some people do struggle when encountering a line of inquiry which deviates from options approved by one or another section of the ruling class…

 

[ll74]

Feel free to substantiate that at any time. I’ve indicated that President Putin and those around him stand to be prosecuted for crimes of war against peace. How that constitutes one a stooge for Putin I cannot guess. Perhaps it is because likewise, I make the same assertions regarding President Biden and those around him.

Some people do struggle when encountering a line of inquiry which deviates from options approved by one or another section of the ruling class…

If you believe Putin had an actual reason to invade Ukraine, you're a Russian stooge.

The NATO bullshit was bullshit....we have NATO all over the world....whether it's on some border or not is literal horseshit in terms of whether we can take action against them.

 

[Lazaran]

Feel free to substantiate that at any time. I’ve indicated that President Putin and those around him stand to be prosecuted for crimes of war against peace. How that constitutes one a stooge for Putin I cannot guess. Perhaps it is because likewise, I make the same assertions regarding President Biden and those around him.

Some people do struggle when encountering a line of inquiry which deviates from options approved by one or another section of the ruling class…

“crimes of war against peace”???

Weasel words at best.

Putin is a fucking monster.

Full stop.

 

[Holy_Seduction]

If you believe Putin had an actual reason to invade Ukraine, you're a Russian stooge.

That is an argument without a premise.

‘The NATO bullshit was bullshit....we have NATO all over the world....whether it's on some border or not is literal horseshit in terms of whether we can take action against them.’

This seems to require some translation, or at least some reconstruction.

You seem to be saying that ‘we can take action against them’ be they on our borders or not. I don’t recall questioning that.

Nothing governments do is without a reason. That is as true for Putin as it is for us.

Putin invaded Ukraine because he had to do so to retain the support of Russia’s capitalist criminal oligarchy. If he didn’t, Putin would be removed, and another would be put in place to do the same thing.

How long do you believe that the US criminal ruling class oligarchy would allow Biden to remain in his current position if he woke up one morning and ordered the cessation of hostilities against Russia?

Xi’s regime is promoting a 12 point plan to de-escalate hostilities between the US/NATO and Russia. The ruling class Xi represents wants to exploit cracks that are beginning to appear in Europe’s position — out of concern that, after Russia, China.

How long do you think Xi would remain in his position if he refused to represent the criminal capitalist ruling class oligarchy he is there to represent?

And the same questions apply to the governments of Germany, France, Belgium, Australia, Canada, and on and on and on.

 

[Holy_Seduction]

“crimes of war against peace”???

Weasel words at best.

You do realize that this is the language of Nuremberg and the charges that were brought against Hitler’s war party. Those, at least, who were still alive in 45.

We really do have to master our emotional response in order to do good work. What you said about Putin would not stand in a court of law.

In the end, Nuremberg’s ‘weasel words’ saw remaining Nazi war party members marched summarily to be hanged by the neck until dead.

Weasel words indeed!

 

[ll74]

That is an argument without a premise.

‘The NATO bullshit was bullshit....we have NATO all over the world....whether it's on some border or not is literal horseshit in terms of whether we can take action against them.’

This seems to require some translation, or at least some reconstruction.

You seem to be saying that ‘we can take action against them’ be they on our borders or not. I don’t recall questioning that.

Nothing governments do is without a reason. That is as true for Putin as it is for us.

Putin invaded Ukraine because he had to do so to retain the support of Russia’s capitalist criminal oligarchy. If he didn’t, Putin would be removed, and another would be put in place to do the same thing.

How long do you believe that the US criminal ruling class oligarchy would allow Biden to remain in his current position if he woke up one morning and ordered the cessation of hostilities against Russia?

Xi’s regime is promoting a 12 point plan to de-escalate hostilities between the US/NATO and Russia. The ruling class Xi represents wants to exploit cracks that are beginning to appear in Europe’s position — out of concern that, after Russia, China.

How long do you think Xi would remain in his position if he refused to represent the criminal capitalist ruling class oligarchy he is there to represent?

And the same questions apply to the governments of Germany, France, Belgium, Australia, Canada, and on and on and on.

Yes, I get that you believe the Russian pretense bullshit.

NATO is everywhere.

The Ukraine said they weren't joining NATO in 2014 as part of the Minsk agreement. Which is also when Russia accepted Ukraine's borders as recognized by the international community.

Then they went back on their own agreement with Ukraine and invaded.

Also, fuck whatever bullshit you have here in regards to China. Added for the "ruling class allow Biden....etc..etc" bullshit...that's irrelevant.

Putin did not need to do anything except work diplomatically with the international community, which he refused to do, in order to address his grievances.

The only reason Putin invaded is because he wants another USSR.

Your only argument is that Putin invaded to save his own ass in his own country....which again..has nothing to do with anyone but Putin.

 

[Dribble]

Time for the stupidity...of a seduction...to go the path so many before them. On to ignore. Never to be seen again. I give them zero attention

 

[Holy_Seduction]

Yes, I get that you believe the Russian pretense bullshit.

No.

Opposition the US/NATO proxy war on Russia in no wise legitimizes Putin’s attack on Ukraine.

Any replacement of Putin would be obliged to follow Putin’s course. If we cannot or will not reckon with this, or recognize the necessity of applying class analysis to understand events, then we are condemned to a life po political illiteracy.

That is the fate of the lumpen proletariat.

 

[ll74]

No.

Opposition the US/NATO proxy war on Russia in no wise legitimizes Putin’s attack on Ukraine.

Any replacement of Putin would be obliged to follow Putin’s course. If we cannot or will not reckon with this, or recognize the necessity of applying class analysis to understand events, then we are condemned to a life po political illiteracy.

That is the fate of the lumpen proletariat.

Putin invaded Ukraine. Whether or not the us has used this to deplete Russian forces, the US did not cause the war to happen nor did they force Putin to invade.

Ukraine will fight until it decides to stop. We can encourage them, but cannot force them to stop defending themselves.

 

[Holy_Seduction]

Putin invaded Ukraine

But that isn’t at issue. Is it. No one questions that.

the US did not cause the war to happen…

Again, only if you take a ‘who crossed the line first’ outlook. Only if you take an ahistorical perspective. But that explains nothing. And in time, truth will out.

Tuesday, a Washington Post interview with NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg found him stating that the Ukraine war “didn’t start in 2022, but in 2014.”

He said that until 2014, NATO allies were reducing defense budgets. Since 2014, they significantly increased defense spending. A huge NATO transformation began across Europe and Canada in 2014.

This narrative going to come out.

You can take it to the bank, II74, that the meaning of complex events such as wars and revolutions, is almost never apparent when they happen.

People who don’t or won’t grasp this will spend their whole lives being manipulated by unscrupulous and warmongering politicians like children. They will be suckers for every campaign. They will live second-hand lives, tailored to fit the career interests of profligate politicians and their partisan slogans. You will be marched to war or madness with absurd ease.

My council would be that you not take that path.

 

[ll74]

But that isn’t at issue. Is it. No one questions that.

Yes, it is entirely the issue. Every single person who questions my support for Ukraine does so by implying that Putin had no choice....and that's horseshit.

Again, only if you take a ‘who crossed the line first’ outlook. Only if you take an ahistorical perspective. But that explains nothing. And in time, truth will out.

Russia crossed the line first.

There...helped you out.

Whether you find out that he felt cornered or whatever other BS you put there....he invaded Ukraine. Nobody forced him to...everyone told him not to.

He did it. Period. An autocratic dictator took his country to war.

Tuesday, a Washington Post interview with NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg found him stating that the Ukraine war “didn’t start in 2022, but in 2014.”

And that's.correct. the first wave of the Ukraine war started with the invasion of Crimea.....which was also a Russian invasion

He said that until 2014, NATO allies were reducing defense budgets. Since 2014, they significantly increased defense spending. A huge NATO transformation began across Europe and Canada in 2014.

This narrative going to come out.

Yes, you want to blame other countries instead of Russia....which is what I said you were doing. Thanks for confirming.

You can take it to the bank, II74, that the meaning of complex events such as wars and revolutions, is almost never apparent when they happen.

War happens when it starts. There may be precursors which build up support for war, but it doesn't start until the border is crossed.

And there is always a way to avoid war that doesn't involve that invasion.

When a country decides to abandon that effort...they have taken responsibility for that invasion.

Diplomacy exists until that happens.

People who don’t or won’t grasp this will spend their whole lives being manipulated by unscrupulous and warmongering politicians like children. They will be suckers for every campaign. They will live second-hand lives, tailored to fit the career interests of profligate politicians and their partisan slogans. You will be marched to war or madness with absurd ease.

My council would be that you not take that path.

Oh fuck off. Stop making excuses for an autocratic dictator who hates hi country to much that he makes laws to fuck his own citizens and literally kills anyone who opposes him.

 

[jaF0]

And what happened in '14?

 

[ll74]

But that isn’t at issue. Is it. No one questions that.

I think your main issue is confusing questioning who invaded with who is responsible for that invasion.

The answer is Putin. There is no other person or country responsible for him annexing Crimea in 2014 or the other regions last year. It is him.

 

[Holy_Seduction]

the first wave of the Ukraine war started with the invasion of Crimea

Actually , the antecedent of this conflict happened when Ukraine abandoned plans for closer economic ties with the EU in November of 2013. Shortly after that, Germany and the US regimes began supporting a coup of the democratically elected pro-Russian government in Ukraine, in order to install a Washington-compliant regime. That is the backdrop of the aforesaid WP remarks.

There isn’t a country on earth whose territorial boundaries are respected by the diktats of Capital. The moment a nation orients in another direction, it is targeted for regime change.

 

[ll74]

Actually , the antecedent of this conflict happened when Ukraine abandoned plans for closer economic ties with the EU in November of 2013. Shortly after that, Germany and the US regimes began supporting a coup of the democratically elected pro-Russian government in Ukraine, in order to install a Washington-compliant regime. That is the backdrop of the aforesaid WP remarks.

There isn’t a country on earth whose territorial boundaries are respected by the diktats of Capital. The moment a nation orients in another direction, it is targeted for regime change.

Incorrect. When Russia ignored the borders of Ukraine, it declared war on the country.

When internationally recognize borders are breached (and worth noting that those borders were recognized by Russia). It is a declaration of war.

 

[Holy_Seduction]

Russia ignored the borders of Ukraine

And again, we agree on that.

In a US context, take care that war not become the issue which collapses what differences yet remain between Democrats and Republicans and draws you more and more into the GOP orbit.

 

[ll74]

And again, we agree on that.

In a US context, take care that war not become the issue which collapses what differences yet remain between Democrats and Republicans and draws you more and more into the GOP orbit.

Awesome. So Putin invaded Ukraine and is fully responsible for the war he started.

Thanks for confirming.

In the US context, we should support Democracies and be against those autocratic dictatorships that seek to destroy them. I will support that position no matter the cost.

 

[Holy_Seduction]

fully responsible for the war he started.

No, I didn’t say that…

If you supported democracy, you would also support socialist revolution for democracy in your own country, and globally, as opposed to supporting a campaign which will result inevitably in WWIII and thermonuclear holocaust and the cessation of civilization itself.

 

[ll74]

No, I didn’t say that…

If you supported democracy, you would also support socialist revolution for democracy in your own country, and globally, as opposed to supporting a campaign which will result inevitably in WWIII and thermonuclear holocaust and the cessation of civilization itself.

I support our citizen's ability to vote. That's Democracy ...supporting trends is not.

You truly believe Putin and support his bullshit more than you recognize.

 

[Holy_Seduction]

You truly believe Putin and support his bullshit more than you recognize

II74, no matter how many times you say that, the constant repetition doesn’t make it so.

 

[ll74]

II74, no matter how many times you say that, the constant repetition doesn’t make it so.

Yes, I get that you believe your own horseshit.

Sometimes, it's easier than accepting that you accept the bullshit of an asshole dictator.

 

[Holy_Seduction]

…you believe your own horseshit.

You advocate for an utterly reactionary position. That is your prerogative. But you do yourself no credit when you resort to crudity.

 

[Lazaran]

Actually , the antecedent of this conflict happened when Ukraine abandoned plans for closer economic ties with the EU in November of 2013. Shortly after that, Germany and the US regimes began supporting a coup of the democratically elected pro-Russian government in Ukraine, in order to install a Washington-compliant regime. That is the backdrop of the aforesaid WP remarks.

There isn’t a country on earth whose territorial boundaries are respected by the diktats of Capital. The moment a nation orients in another direction, it is targeted for regime change.

Read this:

https://www.britannica.com/place/Ukraine/The-Orange-Revolution-and-the-Yushchenko-presidency

Hope that ^ helps.