Dual Perspectives within Same Story

[Cagivagurl]

Now I feel really bad for asking you to beta-read What a difference a day makes... (which uses alternating first person narrators).

I've used it a few times, including on stories that have gone to number 1 in category (Eve & Lucy, The Third Date). So, clearly readers here don't object to it that strongly.

When I use it, I do it because I want the reader to see the outcome before the characters do - I want the reader to be anticipating what's coming, to feel like they are in on it, to be excited for it, before the penny drops for the characters.

Have yourself a joyeux petit noel by @redgarters is an excellent use of dual first person narrators.

Actually, yours is one of the few I have read that worked. A very good story, that I'd happily recommend to anybody.
You managed to keep the story concise, it next became confusing.
Normally, I dislike the first person alternating perspectives because I am unable to stay in the story.
1st person is my favourite because it lets me, the reader feel everything. The story revolves around us (The character, and me) Splitting from one perspective to another throws me out of the character...
Normally, once I see the perspectives changing. I back out, and yes. I may have done that in your story if I hadn't been involved. It would have been to my detriment, because it is a great read....

I enjoyed the experience, thank you for letting me read for you.

 

[old_prof]

My novel Friendly Advice, which just appeared earlier this month, does this. I wouldn't want to do it in anything shorter than roughly 30K words.

I swap POV thirteen times over the novel, so it's about 5K words per POV. The changes only happen at chapter boundaries and I'm careful to make it very clear in the first paragraph of a chapter who has POV now.

For that novel, I thought it was important to tell the story from both sides. The story covers five and a half years of a relationship between two women, starting with one entering the other, then they become best friends, then lovers, then experience a painful breakup, only to come back to being best friends. It was better told in first person, because that captured the emotional intimacy I wanted, but it would have neem unfair to tell it from one side or the other.

I think it worked, but it's hard to tell what the readers think yet. The story has suffered many slings and arrows, but the POV is not one of the things I've been savaged for.

There are plenty of examples of professional authors using this technique.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

I did it in Pranked. Basically, I had the action split into two locations and I wanted to tell what was happening in both. Then I needed to represent unique experiences of two characters at one of those locations.

The sequel is in a single PoV, because it works better for that particular story.

 

[Voboy]

I hate it with the fire of a thousand suns.

This.

I boop right out of those stories. I get that some writers feel like it's a legitimate technique, and I hope they find their audience, but I think it's bad storytelling.

 

[SimonDoom]

It probably also completely solves the "frame" problem, the problem of an in-universe frame which explains, indicatesd or even merely suggests why, how and to whom these two first-person perspectives are being told at all.

Where "why" does not mean some out-of-universe, fourth-wall-breaking reason, and "how" does not mean "well, the author did it," and "to whom" does not mean "an out-of-universe reader neither of these narrators can possibly have any relationship with."

I mean, even a single-point of view first-person story usually has that issue. It's exponentially less cromulent when multiple POVs are present.

Most versions of third-person voice and POV eliminate this irritation.


There's no reason third-person can't satisfy the "structure" of shifting perspectives.

I agree with all of this, and with you and ElectricBlue that the use of a close or free-indirect style third-person POV can achieve approximately the same desired result without the problems. I've never used dual first person and don't have examples to give.

I think it CAN be done, and I would want to advise an author categorically not to do it, but to come up with a device or explanation about why it's being used.

It can potentially be used for comic effect, or where the two first person narrators have very different perspectives and the author intends to create a jarring effect from the contrast.

 

[StillStunned]

It can potentially be used for comic effect, or where the two first person narrators have very different perspectives and the author intends to create a jarring effect from the contrast.

An ogre with two heads that take turns sleeping, and each have their own personality and goals.

 

[SimonDoom]

Another key with this type of perspective is to have very clear breaks to indicate where the shift in POV occurs. Since both narrators describe themselves by "I" it can easily be confusing -- much more so than third person, where the third person narrator indicates who's thinking and speaking with nouns and other pronouns.

 

[TheLobster]

The story has suffered many slings and arrows, but the POV is not one of the things I've been savaged for.

I boop right out of those stories.

Not gonna lie, the juxtaposition of these two statements is hilarious.

 

[Voyeurkenneth]

Do you only want good examples and recommendations? Or would any negative, "don't do it!" style reactions be welcome?

I'll take anything anyone is willing to share. I'm in general research mode.

Thanks all. Lots of interesting thoughts and examples here to chew on.

 

[WaxPhilosophic]

I use multiple first person, present tense POVs in my recent cyberpunk tales. One of them even smacks of LitRPG, because why not?

The Courier
The Domestic
Honey's Rizz Quest

And coming soon...


Each one gets a heading with the name of the current speaker to keep things straight.

 

[Rob_Royale]

Yes. In my Aunt Tina series I would jump from first person perspective to first person perspective, each chapter which were marked at te beginning as to who was narrating. As it's an incest story, I thought it would be unique to get each perspective in a very intimate way and in my opinion first person is perfect for that.
I got very few complaints. I think it worked rather well.

 

[crookedletter]

It's hard to imagine not just using third person if I'm going to be switching perspective characters. But I suppose I wouldn't rule it out entirely. There might be some very specific (and rare) reasons for multiple first person narrators. And I think you'd have to be very deliberate about making sure the voices are sufficiently distinct, or it runs the risk of being distracting and confusing.

 

[Britva415]

It's hard to imagine not just using third person if I'm going to be switching perspective characters. But I suppose I wouldn't rule it out entirely. There might be some very specific (and rare) reasons for multiple first person narrators.

Ideally, an in-universe reason.

Says me

 

[SmilingLez]

Has anyone tried their hand at dual 1st person perspectives within the same story? Any thoughts, generally?

In my head, the shifting of perspectives feels like it may get confusing/tiresome or leave the reader feeling detached. But I'm intrigued by the structure.

Any good examples on Lit? Recommendations?

My free verse Tongue Meet Flesh is an example of dual first person (giver and receiver) perspectives. HTH

 

[Bazzle]

Has anyone tried their hand at dual 1st person perspectives within the same story? Any thoughts, generally?

In my head, the shifting of perspectives feels like it may get confusing/tiresome or leave the reader feeling detached. But I'm intrigued by the structure.

Any good examples on Lit? Recommendations?

I think you mean this type of story? https://literotica.com/s/mean-business

 

[anthrodisiac]

I think the real question is when someone is going to try to pull off dual second-person perspectives.

I'll tar and feather myself on the way out, save you all the hassle.

 

[Britva415]

I think the real question is when someone is going to try to pull off dual second-person perspectives.

I'll tar and feather myself on the way out, save you all the hassle.

No U!

 

[TheLobster]

No U!

I'm afraid dual 2P would in fact be quite a lot of "u".

 

[anthrodisiac]

I'm afraid dual 2P would in fact be quite a lot of "u".

It'd be a lot of PU. 2PU.

 

[THBGato]

when someone is going to try to pull off dual second-person perspectives.

It's in my WIP folder. It'll be the last story I'll ever submit here, partly as I'll be persona non grata afterwards.

 

[anthrodisiac]

It's in my WIP folder. It'll be the last story I'll ever submit here, partly as I'll be persona non grata afterwards.

And lo, THBGato was hunted unto the ends of the Earth, for her slight against humanity is a sin never forgotten, and never forgiven. And anthrodisiac, too, was hunted for daring to utter the thought and give it power so that it might perpetrate its dastardly will upon the populace of this good Earth.

These are the End Times indeed, my flock.

 

[TheOtherTeacher]

I used it in my first two "Free Use" stories.

Because I was creating a whole world of free use and wanted to see what it would be like from both a male and female perspective.

I enjoy the format as a writer. It lets you play with the plot in interesting ways and reveal motivations.

For example female pov decided she does actually like male pov character and goes to his room...only to find him with her female rival. Shock! Betrayal ! End chapter.

The male Pov next chapter rewinds the moment a bit. He's waiting for female pov but the rival comes in and INSISTS they make love because of free use rules. Even threatening to report him to the police for breaking free use laws.
You then get his pov of watching female pov arrive, get shocked and leave.

 

[Hampshiregirl]

I experimented with it, more out of curiosity than anything, in my Ben and Marie story.
Link: https://www.literotica.com/s/ben-and-marie

I found that writing it required a bit more concentration than normal, but I enjoyed the process, and might return to it. Readers seem to like it, which is encouraging.

HG xx

 

[THBGato]

It probably also completely solves the "frame" problem, the problem of an in-universe frame which explains, indicatesd or even merely suggests why, how and to whom these two first-person perspectives are being told at all.

Where "why" does not mean some out-of-universe, fourth-wall-breaking reason, and "how" does not mean "well, the author did it," and "to whom" does not mean "an out-of-universe reader neither of these narrators can possibly have any relationship with."

I mean, even a single-point of view first-person story usually has that issue. It's exponentially less cromulent when multiple POVs are present.

Most versions of third-person voice and POV eliminate this irritation.

I was musing on this, and I think I feel the complete opposite.

For millennia, pre-cinema, the vast, vast majority of story-telling was done from a First Person perspective. That's why in Dickens, the conceit is often that the character is writing an autobiography (indeed, David Copperfield kind of is), or why Austen sometimes addresses the reader directly.

True, some Greek and Roman classics were in third person (The Iliad, The Aeneid) as is most of the Bible, but most storytelling was done person to person and often prefaced with how the teller knows about the events (see Wuthering Heights or Frankenstein or Sherlock Holmes or even the Canterbury Tales). Even now, if you meet a friend in a bar, they will tell you anecdotes in first person (sometimes, weirdly, in first person present: "So, I'm sitting there, having a drink, when this girl comes up to me and says...").

Then cinema was invented. Suddenly, humanity had this third person point of view offered to us. And it is available to almost everyone, not the educated elite. TV and later computer games spread this view point and it became the norm, influencing fiction writers. This frame is so embedded in our culture, some of us start to imagine the world in this way, forgetting how artificial this frame is.

But this is - in the scope of human History - a very recent thing.

To come back to the dual second person, this can actually be quite natural. It's not a frame; it's the way we often tell stories in real life. My wife and I have been together quite a while and have various stories we tell. We're so rehearsed at these that the hinge points where one of us takes over the telling from the other are pretty much consistent. If you were our guest at a dinner table, you would be hearing those stories told in alternating first person points of view. We (probably) wouldn't be as graphic as the stories I write here (though there would be LOTS of innuendo).

So as to the why, how and to whom questions, that for me is the answer. Why? Well, why do couples tell other people how they met or got together? They just do! How? Turn-taking. To whom? Our nearest and dearest? New Friends?

So, yeah, to me Dual First Person narration can seem very natural. If it doesn't to you, I guess you don't share story-telling duties with your partner very often!

 

[TheLobster]

Then cinema was invented.

You are completely glossing over the millennia of existence of the medium of theater and performance. Watching acted-out stories from a third person perspective has much, much longer history than cinematography alone.