Escaping antizionism

[Lazaran]

Yeah, because young people always respond well to “STFU”.

Young people are the world, or at least they will be in a generation. They see what’s before them and respond in agreement or disagreement depending on who has provided the arguments that resonate with them the loudest.

Um, young people CAN EARN a “STFU” as well as anyone else (and they likely DESERVE a “STFU”’more often than some other groups). If they can’t handle a “STFU” when it is EARNED and DESERVED, then maybe they need to GTFU (Grow The Fuck Up).



Meanwhile:

There are certainly issues that young people deserve MORE than a right to have their opinions heard and respected, but the “Israel vs the Arab / Muslim world” issue is NOT one of them (imho). Young people are too easily influenced by propaganda (as YOU noted YOURSELF). Young people are A LOT like the gullible common MAGAts (and SOME of them ARE common MAGAts).



WE. TOLD. THEM. SO.

 

[AlexBailey]

Um, young people CAN EARN a “STFU” as well as anyone else (and they likely DESERVE a “STFU”’more often than some other groups). If they can’t handle a “STFU” when it is EARNED and DESERVED, then maybe they need to GTFU (Grow The Fuck Up).



Meanwhile:

There are certainly issues that young people deserve MORE than a right to have their opinions heard and respected, but the “Israel vs the Arab / Muslim world” issue is NOT one of them (imho). Young people are too easily influenced by propaganda (as YOU noted YOURSELF). Young people are A LOT like the gullible common MAGAts (and SOME of them ARE common MAGAts).



WE. TOLD. THEM. SO.

Welp,

I just spent the last week hanging out with a bunch of 20 somethings. Your poor communication skills would fail miserably.

What kind of conceited idiot are you to think that anyone will listen to you over what they think they see?

You’re going to come telling them how gullible they are instead of modeling justice, good governance, empathy, and good behavior?


Trump is a sock puppet for the LEGO propaganda. He’s taking on Western religious leaders, he’s obfuscating the Epstein investigation, he’s causing oil prices to surge worldwide…. Who do you think they blame for the girls school that got bombed?

You couldn’t write a better anti-west narrative if you tried.

A touch of humility could make a difference. At the very least it would give someone from another perspective something to think about and say “Oh, maybe they aren’t all so evil after all.”

YMMV.

 

[Lazaran]

Welp,

I just spent the last week hanging out with a bunch of 20 somethings. Your poor communication skills would fail miserably.

Persuasive communication works both ways. But of course, it is only older, pragmatic progressive Democrats like myself who are expected (required) to communicate in a coddling, contrite, capitulating manner…

What kind of conceited idiot are you to think that anyone will listen to you over what they think they see?

I am NOT conceited AT ALL.

And I’m just giving them (young people, etc) an option / alternative to “what they THINK they see”. They can either be persuaded by the unvarnished objective truth of my statements or not.

You’re going to come telling them how gullible they are instead of modeling justice, good governance, empathy, and good behavior?

Democrats have generally been doing the things you mentioned for YEARS / DECADES, and they have been rewarded with the election of DonOld & the MAGAt Republican, etc.

Trump is a sock puppet for the LEGO propaganda. He’s taking on Western religious leaders, he’s obfuscating the Epstein investigation, he’s causing oil prices to surge worldwide…. Who do you think they blame for the girls school that got bombed?

They RIGHTFULLY blame America & Israel, but they WRONGFULLY exclude the Iranian regime / Iranian proxies, Russia, and China (etc) for their roles in the conflict that contributed to the current situation with its related scandals & tragedies.

You couldn’t write a better anti-west narrative if you tried.

Oh, they’re trying…

A touch of humility could make a difference. At the very least it would give someone from another perspective something to think about and say “Oh, maybe they aren’t all so evil after all.”

Again, Democrats have tried that soft talk approach and been rewarded with the election of DonOld & the MAGAt republicans. It’s time for some straight talk, imho.

YMMV.

Back at you.



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Many ethnicities lived within what is now Israel before the 1920s. Tensions rose when foreign powers and zionists started talking about creating a Jewish homeland in an area that was majority Arab. By 1948 things were coming apart at the seams. May 14th was not an instant in the making.


Israel was founded on bad blood between some major world religions. It was the perfect way to start a forever war.

The only way forward is through communication. You can’t kill all of your enemies because trying to do so creates more.

Young people all across the world are lapping up the Iranian Lego propaganda. Don’t doubt how much belief and resentment such a meme can spread. If you want to be the “good guys” you have to be good.

70% of Israelis today are Mizrahi Jews whose ancestors were driven out of neighboring middle eastern states. If the Arabs didn’t want so many Jews in Israel they should have kept those other Jewish communities intact.

 

[AlexBailey]

70% of Israelis today are Mizrahi Jews whose ancestors were driven out of neighboring middle eastern states. If the Arabs didn’t want so many Jews in Israel they should have kept those other Jewish communities intact.

Bad blood just keeps bleeding.

Unfortunately there are lots of Christians who are excited about the prospects of Armageddon. I don’t think peace is in their plans.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Bad blood just keeps bleeding.

Unfortunately there are lots of Christians who are excited about the prospects of Armageddon. I don’t think peace is in their plans.

The Christians aren’t the problem. The problem is the Muslims who refuse to accept the existence of a secular non-Muslim state in the Middle East.

 

[AlexBailey]

The Christians aren’t the problem. The problem is the Muslims who refuse to accept the existence of a secular non-Muslim state in the Middle East.

No shit.

How do you think things would go if an Islamic “New Mecca” was established somewhere in the western world supported by Islamic nationsand then excluded the previously dominant population of the area?

I’m not saying that’s exactly what happened, but it’s not my perspective that is causing the problem.

What’s the plan? Kill every person who has a relative who opposes Israel and then build relationships between Jews and Muslim Arabs in the region?

Is there an endgame strategy or is it just a forever war based on religion?

Are there any efforts being done anywhere for reconciliation between the opposing sides? Is there even an interest in doing this or is it just seen as impossible?

 

[JohnEngelman]

All religions? It’s certainly true that Christianity and Islam have violent expansionist theologies, but religions like Hinduism, Taoism, Buddhism, and Judaism don’t.

Nothing in the New Testament advocates a violent expansionist theology.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

No shit.

How do you think things would go if an Islamic “New Mecca” was established somewhere in the western world supported by Islamic nationsand then excluded the previously dominant population of the area?

I’m not saying that’s exactly what happened, but it’s not my perspective that is causing the problem.

What’s the plan? Kill every person who has a relative who opposes Israel and then build relationships between Jews and Muslim Arabs in the region?

Is there an endgame strategy or is it just a forever war based on religion?

Are there any efforts being done anywhere for reconciliation between the opposing sides? Is there even an interest in doing this or is it just seen as impossible?

The Arabs invaded Israel in the 7th century and built a mosque atop the holiest place in Judaism. Even after the Jews took the Temple Mount back, they left the mosque standing and allowed Muslims to keep praying there.

The religious hatred you’re talking about only goes one way. The Jews show tolerance toward Muslims. The Muslims want the Jews exterminated.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Nothing in the New Testament advocates a violent expansionist theology.

I agree that the Christians learned that from the Muslims. Jihad was so effective that the Western Church invented crusading as a counter strategy, and then carried the spirit of the Reconquista into the New World.

 

[AlexBailey]

The Arabs invaded Israel in the 7th century and built a mosque atop the holiest place in Judaism. Even after the Jews took the Temple Mount back, they left the mosque standing and allowed Muslims to keep praying there.

The religious hatred you’re talking about only goes one way. The Jews show tolerance toward Muslims. The Muslims want the Jews exterminated.

Bullshit.

I’ve been paying attention for decades. Aggressive anti Arab-Jewish settlers in the West Bank come to mind.

If Israel had been effectively policing their own, there might have been something Arabs there would be able to give credit to.

Bad blood makes more.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Bullshit.

I’ve been paying attention for decades. Aggressive anti Arab-Jewish settlers in the West Bank come to mind.

If Israel had been effectively policing their own, there might have been something Arabs there would be able to give credit to.

Bad blood makes more.

Jews will be lynched if they wander into Muslim-controlled regions of Judea. Muslims can live and work safely in Israel.

 

[AlexBailey]

Jews will be lynched if they wander into Muslim-controlled regions of Judea. Muslims can live and work safely in Israel.

Nope.

News of Jewish settlers killing unarmed Arab farmers with no repercussions from the state of Israel has come out in the US over the years. Just imagine what news and propaganda has made of it throughout the Arab community.

Why do you think the population of Gaza voted for Hamas?

Bad blood. Lots of it.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Nope.

News of Jewish settlers killing unarmed Arab farmers with no repercussions from the state of Israel has come out in the US over the years. Just imagine what news and propaganda has made of it throughout the Arab community.

Why do you think the population of Gaza voted for Hamas?

Bad blood. Lots of it.

The intifadas and October 7th make the Israelis vote for hardliners.

Israel tried being more moderate 20 years ago. They forced all the Jews to leave Gaza in an attempt to make peace. The Gazans responded by electing Hamas.

 

[AlexBailey]

The intifadas and October 7th make the Israelis vote for hardliners.

Israel tried being more moderate 20 years ago. They forced all the Jews to leave Gaza in an attempt to make peace. The Gazans responded by electing Hamas.

Bad blood.

It almost sounds like you get my point.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Bad blood.

It almost sounds like you get my point.

What you don’t get is that the Palestinians have never made the slightest attempt to make peace with the Jews.

The Jews have tried to make peace and their overtures have always been rejected.

“Both sides” claims always reward bad actors. This is true whether we’re discussing Republicans and Democrats or Arabs and Jews.

 

[AlexBailey]

What you don’t get is that the Palestinians have never made the slightest attempt to make peace with the Jews.

The Jews have tried to make peace and their overtures have always been rejected.

“Both sides” claims always reward bad actors. This is true whether we’re discussing Republicans and Democrats or Arabs and Jews.

Right. An invading force doesn’t usually win the hearts and minds of those they displaced. Especially if their differences are based on ideology.

I almost hate to say it, but evangelizing Christians understood this and instead of using weapons to convert and colonize they used public works, healthcare, building infrastructure for local populations. Instead of saying, “this all belongs to us now” they included and infiltrated other cultures.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Right. An invading force doesn’t usually win the hearts and minds of those they displaced. Especially if their differences are based on ideology.

I almost hate to say it, but evangelizing Christians understood this and instead of using weapons to convert and colonize they used public works, healthcare, building infrastructure for local populations. Instead of saying, “this all belongs to us now” they included and infiltrated other cultures.

The greatest colonial power in the history of the planet has been the Arabs. Unlike the Christians, the Arabs did use violence to force the people they conquered to convert.

The main reason that Muslims want to eradicate Israel today is because the continued existence of an independent Jewish state is a blot on their record of conquest.

 

[RobDownSouth]

The greatest colonial power in the history of the planet has been the Arabs. Unlike the Christians, the Arabs did use violence to force the people they conquered to convert.

The British government would like a word with you.

The main reason that Muslims want to eradicate Israel today is because the continued existence of an independent Jewish state is a blot on their record of conquest.

The main reason that Zionist want to eradicate Arabs is because wish to ethnically cleanse the Middle East as part of the plan of expanding their border to create "Greater Israel".

Israel is the only country in the world to define their borders, due in part to their continual conquest of neighboring lands....

 

[JohnEngelman]

The greatest colonial power in the history of the planet has been the Arabs. Unlike the Christians, the Arabs did use violence to force the people they conquered to convert.

The main reason that Muslims want to eradicate Israel today is because the continued existence of an independent Jewish state is a blot on their record of conquest.

Also the Israelis demonstrate that they do not need oil under their sand to have a successful economy.

 

[JohnEngelman]

The British government would like a word with you.

The main reason that Zionist want to eradicate Arabs is because wish to ethnically cleanse the Middle East as part of the plan of expanding their border to create "Greater Israel".

Israel is the only country in the world to define their borders, due in part to their continual conquest of neighboring lands....

The Israelis do not want to eradicate the Arabs. The Palestinians want to eradicate Israel.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

The British government would like a word with you.

The main reason that Zionist want to eradicate Arabs is because wish to ethnically cleanse the Middle East as part of the plan of expanding their border to create "Greater Israel".

Israel is the only country in the world to define their borders, due in part to their continual conquest of neighboring lands....

The Arabs conquered India long before the British showed up.

Israel hasn’t even “conquered” all of Palestine. Most of Palestine is the Arab kingdom of Jordan.