favorite punishment

[Nezhul]

I think you kind of overreacting a bit. And also you don't take into account different types of DS relationship that are there. There are not only adorable pet-slaves who are to be cherished and cared for, played with and "funished". There are also quite hardcore subs who want to be controlled, punished, degraded - short of abused.

I know of a few real-life examples of sucessful relationships where punishments (not "funishments", but real, not-fun punishments) are exercised often and both are enjoying them.

so basically - you are overreacting a lot. I kind of agree with half of what you say, but your outlook is too narrow-minded while your judgment is too all-encompassing.

Basically, you say very right things for a very thin slice of DS relationships, is what I feel.

Also, on a whole point of "not living up to expectations".
Some people like the relationship with strict punishments and rules. They do.
But the thing about those relationships is that if the sub was PERFECT - then no punishments would have been needed, and that's a contradiction.
In a healthy relationship that involves punishments Master will never be disapointed with his slave, never be really, truly angry with her - because breaking rules is what justifies the punishment, and punishment is what makes it fun for both.
Have you considered this? No, obviously not.

A DS "training" is a game with no ending, is what I feel. It's over when you reach the end, and that's why no one really tries to do that. It's by design is made up to go on indefinitely - and you enjoy that state of not being perfect that your sub has, because it means that the game goes on.

No sane Master will truly wholeheartedly be disappointed if his sub doesn't perform well, because the whole aim of the game is to have her failing from time to time, then have her punished and be better.

 

[_Necrosomantic_]

I think you kind of overreacting a bit. And also you don't take into account different types of DS relationship that are there. There are not only adorable pet-slaves who are to be cherished and cared for, played with and "funished". There are also quite hardcore subs who want to be controlled, punished, degraded - short of abused.

I know of a few real-life examples of sucessful relationships where punishments (not "funishments", but real, not-fun punishments) are exercised often and both are enjoying them.

No, I didn't take every PYL/ply relationship into account, because I don't have time to make up a schematic making sure everyone and all their issues get addressed. Also, I was specifically speaking about the disturbing trend that has been seen as a reaccuring theme of emotional punishment and it's obvious correlation with bad experiences.

I also pointed out the obvious difference between someone enjoying being " punished ", and someone abandoning someone/maliciously manipulating their emotions to make the afore mentioned " Dom/me " feel a sense of satisfaction or closure, never mind how the other person feels. Did you read what I said or skim it before typing your quick response?

so basically - you are overreacting a lot. I kind of agree with half of what you say, but your outlook is too narrow-minded while your judgment is too all-encompassing.

Basically, you say very right things for a very thin slice of DS relationships, is what I feel.

Also, on a whole point of "not living up to expectations".
Some people like the relationship with strict punishments and rules. They do.
But the thing about those relationships is that if the sub was PERFECT - then no punishments would have been needed, and that's a contradiction.
In a healthy relationship that involves punishments Master will never be disapointed with his slave, never be really, truly angry with her - because breaking rules is what justifies the punishment, and punishment is what makes it fun for both.
Have you considered this? No, obviously not.

Again, I was talking about one specific theme, emotional abandonment/shunning as a form of punishment, not making sweeping judgements for kids of all ages.

Yes, actually, I made allowances for relationships that embrace punishment as a norm, even saying that there is a difference between " funishment ", discipline, and punishment. I even went ahead and said there are a few exceptions ( meaning those that DO enjoy psychological or emotional torture ).But my original point was that EMOTIONAL ABANDONMENT DAMAGES PEOPLE, AND WHEN YOU SHUT DOWN ON SOMEONE CONSTANTLY IT CAN LEAVE SCARS THEY CARRY FOR LIFE. I feel like I'm taking fucking crazy pills.

So, obviously, yes I have. I just didn't feel the need to draw you a picture.

Also, whilst on the subject of half ass agreeing with each other,

Some people (women more often than men) depend strongly on the relationship and the emotional connection. When it gets distorted they'd do everything to fix it, to get their loved one's attention and love back. So as subs they may behave better.

p.s. I realize I slipped into a pattern of assuming the sub is a girl - because it's closer to me. But I imagine the same works with men, it's just that on average men are more emotionally durable and will take the emotional abuse easier.

While I agree with the overall theme of your statement, all of this horseshit you're spewing about women not being as emotionally strong as men tends to invalidate you. Just a teensy widdle bit.

At least that's how I imagine lifestyle DS chemistry - I have no hands-on experience.

...
Look, I'm not saying people can't opine about whatever the fuck they want, or that they must have at least 2+ years experience to participate in a discussion. Quite the opposite actually, that's how you learn. But maybe, just maybe, don't go around handing out advice, telling others they are wrong, or acting like you know something when all you're going on is heresay and speculation.

 

[Nezhul]

Wow... you are trying so hard to be offensive there.
I would have been more inclined to go into flame war with you if it wasn't so obvious that you try to get to me.

 

[_Necrosomantic_]

Not at all. I'd rather the conversation ended with you copping out like you just did. Not looking for a flame war, there's no call for it. As for offensive, that's up to you, not me

 

[Iamsubmissive]

In a non BDSM relationship, if my partner ignores me or gives me the cold shoulder I would get annoyed. I would get the point that's he's upset with me about something, but then I would get upset that he couldn't just talk to me about it! Result: We're both mad and an argument ensues...poor way of communicating your feelings.

In a D/s scene, if I did something I know I shouldn't have done...something that would definitely displease my D, I would understand if he was a bit dismissive of me...short clipped commands, maybe a very brief silent treatment - just long enough for me to know he was contemplating how to handle the situation. But as a sub, you're much more vulnerable. Your desire to be pleasing is a big thing. Usually, knowing you disappointed in some way is enough of a 'punishment'. So, if my D ignored me as the punishment I would break down and cry. I would be emotionally hurt and probably need a lot of aftercare. Result: Afterwards, I would be rethinking if that particular relationship or Dom was right for me. Shunning...a deal breaker, plain and simple. I don't see how that could serve any good purpose in the relationship. I don't think it matters if the sub was male or female. But I can only speak for myself...others might feel differently.

 

[Farawyn]

This seems like a good place to address a few things.

First, I enjoy how it's always naturally assumed that it's the sub's/m's/etc.'s shortcomings that need corrected, without ever once addressing the elephant in the room. Just because you have a dominant personality, doesn't make you infallible. If you find yourself in situation in which your other half is constantly " disappointing " you or not willing to do what you say, perhaps you're the one that's screwing up ( THE VERY IDEA! ). Withholding affection, shunning, making them apologize verbally or via writing for " failing you " or berating them, doesn't denote strength. It makes you look like an insecure child that has to keep someone they're supposed to be cherishing and taking care of down for the sake of their own overwhelming ego and blaring insecurities. You're taking someone who trusts you intimately, and emotionally abandoning them when you don't get your way... You know what, I'll just call it what it is. Being weak. With very few exceptions, most don't like being emotionally tortured. Read through the vast majority of threads on the subject in here if you want proof, so many people come out of these encounters feeling abused. It's also ironic how I see so many running around screaming about how important earning trust and emphasizing communication is, only to admit they purposely go around shutting down and doing the EXACT OPPOSITE when things don't go their way. Well played. Yes, the silent treatment, because it worked so well when you were four...

Don't misunderstand, there's nothing wrong with punishment, but if it's the overarching theme of the relationship, that warrants serious inquiry. " Funishment " is one thing, discipline another, and punsihment should be the last resort, not your go to. Yes, I'm aware that it's a word commonly used and associated primarily with the S/m dynamic. But there's a world of difference between a hard m who's constantly begging to be " punished ", and feeling the need to regularly " Alpha roll " your sub because he or she isn't " living up to your expectations ". You want to be a big bad Alpha? Okay, fine. Yes, you get to eat first and call the shots. But you are also only to make decisions for the benefit of those in your care, not your over inflated sense of worth, you don't sleep until you make sure what's yours is taken care of, and you be the first to step up to plate when things get rough and you don't get to quit. Not willing or able? Then I'll go ahead and do what so many " Doms " are soooo quick to tell subs that don't fit their bullshit mold. You're not a Dom, you're not a Sadist, and you're sure as shit not an Alpha, wolf or anything else impressive for that matter... Actually, if I'm doing the animal thing, it means you're a male lion. Meaning, you're a big, fat, lazy pussy that isn't good for much other than making a lot of noise and requiring others to do everything for you short of scratching your ass.

and yes, get offended.

Fin.

 

[PtyLips]

In a non BDSM relationship, if my partner ignores me or gives me the cold shoulder I would get annoyed. I would get the point that's he's upset with me about something, but then I would get upset that he couldn't just talk to me about it! Result: We're both mad and an argument ensues...poor way of communicating your feelings.

In a D/s scene, if I did something I know I shouldn't have done...something that would definitely displease my D, I would understand if he was a bit dismissive of me...short clipped commands, maybe a very brief silent treatment - just long enough for me to know he was contemplating how to handle the situation. But as a sub, you're much more vulnerable. Your desire to be pleasing is a big thing. Usually, knowing you disappointed in some way is enough of a 'punishment'. So, if my D ignored me as the punishment I would break down and cry. I would be emotionally hurt and probably need a lot of aftercare. Result: Afterwards, I would be rethinking if that particular relationship or Dom was right for me. Shunning...a deal breaker, plain and simple. I don't see how that could serve any good purpose in the relationship. I don't think it matters if the sub was male or female. But I can only speak for myself...others might feel differently.

I completely agree with everything you say.

Shunning a sub, in my case, would be counterproductive. It would hurt me so much, that I would shut down and be in a complete state of panic, not to mention be deeply emotionally hurt. I don't think there would be a way to recover from and to come back to. I don't trust easily, hardly ever, and it would ruin any trust I'd been able to build.

Same - as somebody suggested - to write my own dismissal?! If my Dom would request that from me, than I would fully expect to hand them in, after I am done. That would be a complete and unacceptable deal breaker and I would walk away without looking back.

 

[DrDelirium]

Different strokes, so to speak, for different folks. That said, it seems to me that in the most general sense, one important function of punishment is to impress on the punishee the relative gravity of the situation, and another is to do so within limits that, hopefully, keep the situation from deteriorating further. In the context of a serious offense, which to me suggests something that, if unaddressed, imperils the smooth continuation of the relationship, it may be useful to give the offender a small taste of where, ultimately, their behavior is taking them- shunning in that context is a perhaps helpful preview of things to come if the course is not corrected. All this depends very much on the psychology of the individual, as Jeeves would say, and to be shunned for a day or two is not the same experience for everybody. Let's say it's the rough equivalent of five minutes in the time-out chair for a three year old- no big deal to some; a deeply traumatic experience to others. The point is to have some knowledge and understanding of the person you're dealing with, and to be able to have some idea of the kind of effect your actions are likely to have on them before you decide what kind of punishment to administer. This is not always possible. Sometimes the dominant partner just has to do what feels best for themselves and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[barefootgirl69]

Different strokes, so to speak, for different folks. That said, it seems to me that in the most general sense, one important function of punishment is to impress on the punishee the relative gravity of the situation, and another is to do so within limits that, hopefully, keep the situation from deteriorating further. In the context of a serious offense, which to me suggests something that, if unaddressed, imperils the smooth continuation of the relationship, it may be useful to give the offender a small taste of where, ultimately, their behavior is taking them- shunning in that context is a perhaps helpful preview of things to come if the course is not corrected. All this depends very much on the psychology of the individual, as Jeeves would say, and to be shunned for a day or two is not the same experience for everybody. Let's say it's the rough equivalent of five minutes in the time-out chair for a three year old- no big deal to some; a deeply traumatic experience to others. The point is to have some knowledge and understanding of the person you're dealing with, and to be able to have some idea of the kind of effect your actions are likely to have on them before you decide what kind of punishment to administer. This is not always possible. Sometimes the dominant partner just has to do what feels best for themselves and let the chips fall where they may.

Well-said right there.

 

[Farawyn]

Who the fuck is Jeeves?

 

[barefootgirl69]

Who the fuck is Jeeves?

Blahahaha! It's now Ask.com

 

[DrDelirium]

Blahahaha! It's now Ask.com

Perhaps you should ask Ask.com who Jeeves is.

 

[barefootgirl69]

Perhaps you should ask Ask.com who Jeeves is.

"Remember Jeeves? He was the fictional valet who fronted the search engine Ask.com for a decade."

Or a fictional butler... hmmm.

Google... don't fail me now.

 

[DrDelirium]

"Remember Jeeves? He was the fictional valet who fronted the search engine Ask.com for a decade."

Or a fictional butler... hmmm.

Google... don't fail me now.

Jeeves and his 'master' Bertie Wooster were the star characters of perhaps the greatest author of light fiction in the English language, P.G. Wodehouse. If you're not familiar, I'd highly recommend "The Mating Season" as a good entry point. P.G. wrote more than 70 books, quite a few Broadway musicals, and several movie scripts; very prolific. The most beautiful fluff in the world, the Fragonard of English fiction. In my humble opinion, of course.

 

[barefootgirl69]

Jeeves and his 'master' Bertie Wooster were the star characters of perhaps the greatest author of light fiction in the English language, P.G. Wodehouse. If you're not familiar, I'd highly recommend "The Mating Season" as a good entry point. P.G. wrote more than 70 books, quite a few Broadway musicals, and several movie scripts; very prolific. The most beautiful fluff in the world, the Fragonard of English fiction. In my humble opinion, of course.

I will check the library!

 

[ToPleaseHim]

I do not care for a punishment dynamic at all. I don't even want to play that way. My desire is to be good, to please my PYL. Mistakes or misunderstandings by either of us should be discussed and then we move forward.

That said, an over-the-knee spanking is always a good funishment.

 

[Eva_Star]

Different strokes, so to speak, for different folks. That said, it seems to me that in the most general sense, one important function of punishment is to impress on the punishee the relative gravity of the situation, and another is to do so within limits that, hopefully, keep the situation from deteriorating further. In the context of a serious offense, which to me suggests something that, if unaddressed, imperils the smooth continuation of the relationship, it may be useful to give the offender a small taste of where, ultimately, their behavior is taking them- shunning in that context is a perhaps helpful preview of things to come if the course is not corrected. All this depends very much on the psychology of the individual, as Jeeves would say, and to be shunned for a day or two is not the same experience for everybody. Let's say it's the rough equivalent of five minutes in the time-out chair for a three year old- no big deal to some; a deeply traumatic experience to others. The point is to have some knowledge and understanding of the person you're dealing with, and to be able to have some idea of the kind of effect your actions are likely to have on them before you decide what kind of punishment to administer. This is not always possible. Sometimes the dominant partner just has to do what feels best for themselves and let the chips fall where they may.

^^this^^

I know this isn't a particularly popular opinion but I love punishment...and not even funishment...actual punishment. I get off on it. Is that wrong?

Shunning (not even sure what this would look like? Ignoring over an extended period of time?) wouldn't be good for me but I have been ignored while in a time out. That's been years ago but it definitely took place many times in the past. It turned me on. Made me very compliant. Lots of fun was had afterward.

I guess it all comes down to preference. I like getting punished. He likes giving punishments. *shrugs*

 

[cookiecat]

Who the fuck is Jeeves?

I'd like Jeeves to put me in the corner.


We had rules / consequences in our relationship. They leaned more toward working on things like I always lost my keys or being on time. We'd talk about things happening in our relationship; we wanted to make sure we weren't setting me up to be this failure who always needed attending to. I admit I'm a hot mess at times and I embrace that side of myself. But I never wanted to be his project. The girl who always needed improvement. He held himself accountable for things happening in our relationship as well.

We both liked the arbitrary constructs usually related to a D/s relationship - like rules/consequences. We'd set dates to sit down and discuss the relationship, issues we needed to address, things that worked. Any good relationship needs this, right? It's just sometimes I'd be sitting with a plugged ass or a ball gag or his cock pulled out of his jeans just because.

The "punishments" were never things like using icyhot on clit or really anything related to hurting me physically. If I didn't put my keys in the designated spot, I'd have to put my hand on the door 15 minutes prior to leaving, keys in mouth, hand on door, waiting for him to say it was ok to leave.

That stuff worked for us.

 

[DrDelirium]

^^this^^

I know this isn't a particularly popular opinion but I love punishment...and not even funishment...actual punishment. I get off on it. Is that wrong?

Shunning (not even sure what this would look like? Ignoring over an extended period of time?) wouldn't be good for me but I have been ignored while in a time out. That's been years ago but it definitely took place many times in the past. It turned me on. Made me very compliant. Lots of fun was had afterward.

I guess it all comes down to preference. I like getting punished. He likes giving punishments. *shrugs*

I suspect it's quite popular, if you know the right people.
I find a lot of the things people say about punishment are pretty simplistic, and quite often either hypothetical or based on an experience with a particular person or a situation not similar to a D/s relationship. In my experience, just telling someone that something is a punishment can completely alter their experience. I've been with girls who orgasmed during a punishment paddling, while sobbing intensely. It was still punishment. I was with a girl who was 'opposed' to the punishment dynamic all together- so she repeatedly asked for 'practice punishments' to get used to it. And, these were not 'funishments' either. So, again, knowing who you're dealing with is pretty important. Of course, the only way to really find out who you're dealing with is to do stuff. You can't always predict the outcome. But, hey, no risk, no reward.

 

[DrDelirium]

I'd like Jeeves to put me in the corner.



The "punishments" were never things like using icyhot on clit or really anything related to hurting me physically. If I didn't put my keys in the designated spot, I'd have to put my hand on the door 15 minutes prior to leaving, keys in mouth, hand on door, waiting for him to say it was ok to leave.

That stuff worked for us.

I am sure he would oblige. But you would never know if he got off on it or not.

I am not sure I'd describe the hand on door business as a punishment, myself, although I don't object to you doing so. While I'm sure there was some discomfort and humiliation involved, it seems like it was more about heightening the emotional charge on something so it would stick in your brain, than punishing a past action. Pro-active for the next time, in other words, the kind of thing a Dom might have you do even regarding something you had never done before, let alone screwed up previously. But maybe that's just me.

 

[cookiecat]

I am sure he would oblige. But you would never know if he got off on it or not.

I am not sure I'd describe the hand on door business as a punishment, myself, although I don't object to you doing so. While I'm sure there was some discomfort and humiliation involved, it seems like it was more about heightening the emotional charge on something so it would stick in your brain, than punishing a past action. Pro-active for the next time, in other words, the kind of thing a Dom might have you do even regarding something you had never done before, let alone screwed up previously. But maybe that's just me.

What's your definition of punishment?

 

[Farawyn]

I'd like Jeeves to put me in the corner.


We had rules / consequences in our relationship. They leaned more toward working on things like I always lost my keys or being on time. We'd talk about things happening in our relationship; we wanted to make sure we weren't setting me up to be this failure who always needed attending to. I admit I'm a hot mess at times and I embrace that side of myself. But I never wanted to be his project. The girl who always needed improvement. He held himself accountable for things happening in our relationship as well.

We both liked the arbitrary constructs usually related to a D/s relationship - like rules/consequences. We'd set dates to sit down and discuss the relationship, issues we needed to address, things that worked. Any good relationship needs this, right? It's just sometimes I'd be sitting with a plugged ass or a ball gag or his cock pulled out of his jeans just because.

The "punishments" were never things like using icyhot on clit or really anything related to hurting me physically. If I didn't put my keys in the designated spot, I'd have to put my hand on the door 15 minutes prior to leaving, keys in mouth, hand on door, waiting for him to say it was ok to leave.

That stuff worked for us.

I am sure he would oblige. But you would never know if he got off on it or not.

I am not sure I'd describe the hand on door business as a punishment, myself, although I don't object to you doing so. While I'm sure there was some discomfort and humiliation involved, it seems like it was more about heightening the emotional charge on something so it would stick in your brain, than punishing a past action. Pro-active for the next time, in other words, the kind of thing a Dom might have you do even regarding something you had never done before, let alone screwed up previously. But maybe that's just me.

What's your definition of punishment?

Yes, cookie. To your own experience that you shared, of YOUR definition of punishment, and for your question.

 

[DrDelirium]

What's your definition of punishment?

To me, punishment is a consequence for unacceptable behavior. I don't think it's particularly effective, most of the time, at 'teaching' or 'improving' anyone, but by accepting punishment, a submissive is accepting responsibility, reinforcing the authority of the dom, doing penance/making amends/apologizing, and, assuming that the dominant partner likes punishing/asserting authority/being in control, giving pleasure, which is usually a major focus of such relationships. In the last instance, punishment also reinforces the 'worth' of the submissive- she's back on track. So it's mostly about reinforcing the dynamic of the relationship in various ways, I wouldn't count on it to change a person's behavior much by itself. What you describe is more educative, it reinforces connections for something your dom wants done, whereas just bending over a chair and getting a stripey bottom is a couple of steps abstracted from the actual issue of losing your keys. The key business is likely to have some effect even if you are internally resistant, feel it's unfair, think he's being an asshole, whereas punishment is unlikely to have much positive effect unless you're actually contrite. Except for the dom, of course. It relieves a certain amount of stress and ill feeling to give someone a good hiding, even if they don't learn anything from it. IMO, of course.

 

[Naughty_playfull_pair]

being a brat

Pet...
on occasion when Sir and I can't have personal time due to distance we spend our time online, during these times I have a very bad habit of being a bit bratty and forgetting the rules. This does not impress Sir very much and he questions my commitment.
Having said that Sir also knows I am a switch and like to top from the bottom when being bratty. It makes our relationship very interesting to say the least.