For Those Who Might Be Wondering Why We Might Be In Ukraine

[ChloeTzang]

LOL. "Ukrainans are really good at what they do...." - speaking about assassinating Russians

TACO = "Trump always chickens out" - he has no credibility left

 

[Celand]

HERE are the true borders of Muscovy. Pretty much everything from 1471 on is occupied colonies that need to be liberated from Russian oppression. The Russian Federation is an extreme anomaly. It is the last European colonial empire that still continues to exist.

Muscovy itself is a small rump state within Europe, that without the colonies it has seized and still occupies by force and terror, would be a useless pimple on the ass of Europe, rather similar to Belarus.

BTW, "Russia Now" on the map below is a misnomer for "Russian Colonies", just to be absolutely clear

View attachment 2543969

Map of America around the same time.... NO whites, blacks or hispanics... Oh boy where will we go.. Can you spell " sucking and blowing" at the same time?

If you want I could add a map of Great Britain, France and Spain... but oops there is an ocean in between

Case on your argument and a FAKE lesson in history closed...

https://i.redd.it/qx3gkjni53b91.jpg

 

[ll74]

The thing I've noticed about the arguments - the pro Russian positions are exestential threats to Russia.

NATO is encroaching on Russia.
Nazis exist in Ukraine.
US meddled in Ukraine.

All of those have been expressed as exetential threats to Putin.

Meanwhile, Ukraine has been invaded.

Is that not an existential threat to Ukraine on the most basic level?

 

[Celand]

LOL. That is simply a map of Russian colonial expansion. No idea what point you're trying to make with that one. I could show you a similar map for the expansion of the British Empire and of the first and second French empires. Doesn't mean those colonies are French or British.

Lets' take a look at the reality, starting with Karelia. Karelia amd the Karelian Isthmus are FINNISH. The Isthmus was seozed by the old USSR after WW2. It was not Russian, was never Russian, and should be returned to Finland.

Ukraine: the old Ukrainian borders were artificially imposed to reduce the size of Ukraine within the USSR. In the map below is the true Ukrainian territory - which includes many oblasts now within the Russian borders = Bryansk, Kursk, Belgorod, just to name 3 people are familiar with, but also as you can see the territory of the Don and Kuban Cossacks - who are Ukrainians, NOT Russians. These territories are Russian colonies and deserve to be liberated from Russian fascist oppression and occupation

View attachment 2543960

The Caucasus: Russia invaded and occupied these lands in the 18th and 19th centuries in a long campaign of conquest and Genocide. Chechyna I am sure you are familiar with. Dagestan as well. These are the best known but there's also Ossetia, Ingushtia, Abkhazia and the remnants of Circassia - conquered by the Russian Empire during the Russo-Circassian War (1763–1864), after which approximately 80–97% of the Circassian people were either exiled or massacred in the Circassian genocide. Actually, looking at Circassia, you can see that Russia's intentions towards it's neighbors have not changed in the slightest.

View attachment 2543962 View attachment 2543966

And lets not forget Mordovia and Mari-El - two republics of Finno-Ugric people commonly known as the Volga Finna, unfortunately gtrapped within Russia. Again, not Russians. There language and culture is Finnish and they're the remnants of the Finnish people that used to live in most of what is now Russia - the Veps (now almost extinct), the Merya and Meshchera (extintc) and the Muromians (absorbed by Russians - one of the most famous knights in Russian history, Ilya Muromets, was actually Finnsh - as his last name illustrates, he was a Muromian). Muscovy has a long history of absorbing other countries people and achievements and claiming them as their own. The Mari and the Mordvin are the remnants of the original peoples who loved here.

And this is ALL west of the Ural Mountains.......

Russia is essentially the same? No fucking way. It's a colonial empire with a 1000 year tradition of conquest and genocide, that Putin is continuing.

View attachment 2543967

National minorities of Russian Federation discuss its deimperialization in Prague​

https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/07...tion-discuss-its-deimperialization-in-prague/

“The Prague Declaration defines the Russian Federation as a terrorist state, whose colonial practices for centuries, such as forced eviction and genocide, have made indigenous peoples victim of historical injustice." Representatives of ethnic groups and nations that operate in Russia stressed that Moscow’s actions led to the Russian Federation being on the verge of chaos and civil war. ”Only complete, controlled decolonization of Russia can prevent this,” they stated.

I cannot meander thru all what you state but.... So, why Poles do NOT return the lands East of Odra? Or French Alsace Loraine ? Or Czechs Sudeten Land to Germany ? Because Germans started the war and lost, Finns sided with the Nazis and lost along with them, so you loose you lose some territory. Do not even mention USA, Lower Tyrol, Ottoman Empire, Left Bank or the Balkans.

Ukraine aka " Little Russia" is just as artificial entity as Palestine is, and it was created by Russians in 1920. Yes, Stalin did some bad things, BUT Ukrainians in 2nd WW were fighting with the Nazis and even after the war until 1947 OAN B under Bandera murdered thousands of minorities, mostly with shovels and pick axes. Now Bandera is getting 100s of statues built all over Ukraine... and do NOT even mention Galicia SS division or Trawniki Regiment.

.....I will not comment significantly on jihad on the south of Russia, Dagestan being the ONLY Russian Republic where jihad is not present because of various Family run Gangs tolerated by Moscow precisely for their suppression of jihad. FYI: Dagestan is over 80 % Muslim.

Oh yes, you have also mentioned Ossetia .. say NO more, just learn how to spell Beslan and you'll be enlightened.

AS to your Prague declaration link?? It is Euro Maidan Press creation, it would be like asking for an opinion on Russia created by Dr. Goebbels.

 

[Celand]

The thing I've noticed about the arguments - the pro Russian positions are exestential threats to Russia.

NATO is encroaching on Russia.
Nazis exist in Ukraine.
US meddled in Ukraine.

All of those have been expressed as exetential threats to Putin.

Meanwhile, Ukraine has been invaded.

Is that not an existential threat to Ukraine on the most basic level?

Here is the reason. NOTE this is NBC 8 years ago, not some Russian propaganda

Time magazine also before Russian invasion ( 5 years ago)

 

[ll74]

Here is the reason. NOTE this is NBC 8 years ago, not some Russian propaganda

Time magazine also before Russian invasion ( 5 years ago)

Aah, the Nazi angle.

That was a fun pretext while it lasted.

Can you please provide me numbers of Nazi regiments that have been taken out?
Perhaps cities that have been liberated from Nazi occupation?
How many actual Nazis have been killed?
How many Nazi plots have been foiled by the Russian liberators?

I look forward to your answers.

 

[ChloeTzang]

I cannot meander thru all what you state but.... So, why Poles do NOT return the lands East of Odra? Or French Alsace Loraine ? Or Czechs Sudeten Land to Germany ? Because Germans started the war and lost, Finns sided with the Nazis and lost along with them, so you loose you lose some territory. Do not even mention USA, Lower Tyrol, Ottoman Empire, Left Bank or the Balkans.

Ukraine aka " Little Russia" is just as artificial entity as Palestine is, and it was created by Russians in 1920. Yes, Stalin did some bad things, BUT Ukrainians in 2nd WW were fighting with the Nazis and even after the war until 1947 OAN B under Bandera murdered thousands of minorities, mostly with shovels and pick axes. Now Bandera is getting 100s of statues built all over Ukraine... and do NOT even mention Galicia SS division or Trawniki Regiment.

.....I will not comment significantly on jihad on the south of Russia, Dagestan being the ONLY Russian Republic where jihad is not present because of various Family run Gangs tolerated by Moscow precisely for their suppression of jihad. FYI: Dagestan is over 80 % Muslim.

Oh yes, you have also mentioned Ossetia .. say NO more, just learn how to spell Beslan and you'll be enlightened.

AS to your Prague declaration link?? It is Euro Maidan Press creation, it would be like asking for an opinion on Russia created by Dr. Goebbels.

Oh boy you really drank the Russian koolaid didn't you.

You just made it plain it's not even worth debating this one.

 

[ChloeTzang]

 

[ChloeTzang]

Ukraine’s Largest Ever Drone Strike Hits Russian Missile Plant Near Moscow​

In the early hours of Wednesday, May 28, long-range drones operated by Ukraine’s Security Service (SBU) struck a key Russian defense industry facility, the Raduga Design Bureau, Kyiv Post sources within the security agency report. The Raduga plant, located in the city of Dubna and named after Bereznyak, lies 130 kilometers (81.25 miles) north of Moscow. It was struck by Ukrainian drones that successfully bypassed air defenses protecting the Russian capital. According to the SBU, the attack hit the plant’s assembly and equipment workshops, both of which are currently on fire.

The Raduga plant is part of Russia’s Tactical Missiles Corporation and manufactures various types of missiles, including air-to-air, air-to-surface, and surface-to-surface systems. Among them are the Kh-101/555, Kh-69, and Kh-59MK cruise missiles – all of which Russia continues to use in its attacks on terrified civilians and to target infrastructure across Ukraine. In contrast, Kyiv consistently only targets facilities linked to the Russian Federation’s military capabilities, acting in accordance with its right to self-defense under the UN Charter. The strikes are aimed at infrastructure directly involved in supporting Russia’s war effort, such as missile, drone, and weapons manufacturing plants.

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/53543

 

[ChloeTzang]

Career ending move for Russian SVO “veteran” Zaur Gurtsiyev — a key figure in Russia’s air campaign over Mariupol and Avdiivka.

Born in North Ossetia and trained in St. Petersburg, Gurtsiyev led the deadly airstrikes that killed thousands of civilians in Mariupol, actions now being investigated as war crimes. Despite receiving five medals for his role, he recently transitioned to civilian life as deputy mayor of Stavropol.

The war criminal Gutysiyev was eliminated in Stavropol.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1927994892619289073

 

[ChloeTzang]

UH-60A Black Hawk in Ukrainian GUR (Main Directorate of Intelligence) service.

Ukraine has creatively acquired a limited number of former Army Black Hawks for special operations units of the GUR. The USA has refused to supply Ukraine with Black Hawks, despite a considerable number of surplus machines being available.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Ukraine plans to expand missile production even further than was already planned

 

[ll74]

Just found a fantastic series by the Lawfare Podcast. Called Escalation, it's a walkthrough of Ukraine from multiple aspects

https://pca.st/episode/56dca34b-874c-4d5e-8b1e-91a485755710

Or
https://shows.acast.com/the-report

 

[ll74]

Steve Hayes on Trump in regards to Putin:"Trump is the guy who comes out of the strip club saying 'she really really likes me' "
The Dispatch Roundtable
Rewind a little for the quote: https://pca.st/episode/542220fb-05e1-45d0-ae56-c6541e41eec0?t=3462

 

[Rightguide]

Vladimir Putin

Putin masses 50,000 troops on Ukraine's north front as Trump again agrees to meet Russian, Ukrainian leaders​

Russia pushes second meeting in Istanbul, while Ukraine tells Moscow to pony up ceasefire terms first​

By Caitlin McFall Fox News
Published May 29, 2025 12:08pm EDT

Russian President Vladimir Putin has amassed some 50,000 troops on Ukraine’s northern border despite a united push by the U.S. and Ukraine to get Moscow to enter into "meaningful" ceasefire negotiations.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Wednesday warned that Putin is preparing a massive summer offensive in a move to push Ukraine’s troops out of Russia’s Kursk region, and to launch a new invasion into Ukraine’s Sumy region — a mere 200 miles from the capital city of Kyiv.

Zelenskyy reiterated this week that he is ready to hold direct negotiations with Putin and suggested that if the Kremlin chief is uncomfortable with a bilateral meeting, a trilateral meeting could be held with President Donald Trump.

More here: https://www.foxnews.com/world/putin...p-again-agrees-meet-russian-ukrainian-leaders

 

[Lance_Castro]

Because of the whole Good Guys Bad Guys requirement, i think we can easily forget that Ukraine would love to kill as many Russians as possible for as long as possible.

 

[ll74]

Vladimir Putin

Putin masses 50,000 troops on Ukraine's north front as Trump again agrees to meet Russian, Ukrainian leaders​

Russia pushes second meeting in Istanbul, while Ukraine tells Moscow to pony up ceasefire terms first​

By Caitlin McFall Fox News
Published May 29, 2025 12:08pm EDT

Russian President Vladimir Putin has amassed some 50,000 troops on Ukraine’s northern border despite a united push by the U.S. and Ukraine to get Moscow to enter into "meaningful" ceasefire negotiations.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Wednesday warned that Putin is preparing a massive summer offensive in a move to push Ukraine’s troops out of Russia’s Kursk region, and to launch a new invasion into Ukraine’s Sumy region — a mere 200 miles from the capital city of Kyiv.

Zelenskyy reiterated this week that he is ready to hold direct negotiations with Putin and suggested that if the Kremlin chief is uncomfortable with a bilateral meeting, a trilateral meeting could be held with President Donald Trump.

More here: https://www.foxnews.com/world/putin...p-again-agrees-meet-russian-ukrainian-leaders

Ukraine should not meet until Russia actually adheres to a.ceaaefire.

 

[Rightguide]

The public positions of both sides remain diametrically opposed, and at this point, meaningful peace talks seem all but dead. It appears Russia has resolved to settle the conflict decisively on the battlefield. As for the rumored German gambit, baiting Russia into striking Taurus missile facilities in Germany or Sweden in hopes of triggering Article Five and dragging in the U.S. military, that strategy is unlikely to succeed. Article Five does not mandate a military response from NATO members; it merely requires that each member consider what action to take. If Berlin is banking on automatic American intervention, they’d do well to reread the Article, and reconsider the wisdom of provoking a global war over a proxy stalemate. If Putin did strike those supply points in Germany, Trump could send blankets and medical equipment and be within the parameters of Article Five.

 

[Rightguide]

Ukraine should not meet until Russia actually adheres to a.ceaaefire.

Here’s the bottom line: according to the Russian Ambassador to the UN the other day (to paraphrase), “Accept our terms and the territorial losses, or we settle this on the battlefield.” Pair that with Zelensky’s unwavering stance against ceding a single inch of land, and it’s clear, there is no middle ground left. The door to negotiation has all but slammed shut, and the war will be decided by force, not diplomacy.

 

[ll74]

Here’s the bottom line: according to the Russian Ambassador to the UN the other day (to paraphrase), “Accept our terms and the territorial losses, or we settle this on the battlefield.” Pair that with Zelensky’s unwavering stance against ceding a single inch of land, and it’s clear, there is no middle ground left. The door to negotiation has all but slammed shut, and the war will be decided by force, not diplomacy.

The bottom line is that Ukraine should not meet with Russia until they adhere to a ceasefire.

Russia has not been a sincere broker in any stage of this negotiation. Zelensky has offered up multiple concessions over multiple iterations of discussions.

 

[dmallord]

The public positions of both sides remain diametrically opposed, and at this point, meaningful peace talks seem all but dead. It appears Russia has resolved to settle the conflict decisively on the battlefield. As for the rumored German gambit, baiting Russia into striking Taurus missile facilities in Germany or Sweden in hopes of triggering Article Five and dragging in the U.S. military, that strategy is unlikely to succeed. Article Five does not mandate a military response from NATO members; it merely requires that each member consider what action to take. If Berlin is banking on automatic American intervention, they’d do well to reread the Article, and reconsider the wisdom of provoking a global war over a proxy stalemate. If Putin did strike those supply points in Germany, Trump could send blankets and medical equipment and be within the parameters of Article Five.

Brilliant assessment.... brilliant ass....pers... opposed...
[HavinG TroUblE wt mI keYboarD keeping a straight face.]

 

[schism666]

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[Noks]

Trump is a showman, tossing out words and promises like rain with little ground beneath them. He spent most of his life as a Democrat, so anyone familiar with his character should harbor no illusions. That’s not to say Kamala is any better. Hell no. Brainless far-leftists aligning with jihadists are a recipe for the collapse of civilization. Just keep your expectations low when it comes to Trump.

 

[Celand]

Aah, the Nazi angle.

That was a fun pretext while it lasted.

Can you please provide me numbers of Nazi regiments that have been taken out?
Perhaps cities that have been liberated from Nazi occupation?
How many actual Nazis have been killed?
How many Nazi plots have been foiled by the Russian liberators?

I look forward to your answers.

> There was ONLY one battalion, expanded into a regiment in 2023 and Incorporated into Ukrainian defence forces, and mostly taken out in Mariupol
> Mostly Luhansk and Donetsk
> Not sure since Ukraine does NOT publish their looses, but if you consider that about 1/2 of all dead are conscripts dragged off Ukrainian streets and the rest are so called " nationalists" ( NAZIs) and it is suggested in total of about 500,000 dead then around 250,000 ? but nobody knows.
> Ditto on your last question... I only know about ONE Nazi plot it is called Maidan and it was created by Victoria Nuland.

Tried my best to answer your irrelevant questions. I will answer questions you have not asked and maybe you should have. All prior to Russian invasion

> How many newspapers, TV and radio stations, publications and school books catering to Russian minority ( majority in certain sections) are there? Answer: NONE
> Is a Russian minority ( majority in certain sections) recognised as a minority in Ukrainian constitution? Answer: NO
> Is Russian orthodox church and its 1000 years tradition banned in Ukraine? Answer: YES
> When was Stepen Bandera, a documented mass murderer, NAZI collaborator and Jew and Poles killer declared a national hero? Answer: 2018
> Are all surviving members of SS division Galicia, members OAN-B and Trawniki regiment receiving state pensions? Answer? Yes

... I could go on but why there is NO balanced view. So I am done.

 

[Celand]

You just made it plain it's not even worth debating this one.

Truth hurts, so I am also done. Let's stick to TDS, there we can all agree