Gay & Lesbian Parenting Poll...

[Safe_Bet]

And yes... By definition, the fact that they are lesbians makes this research biased. My problem isn't with that but IN COMBINATION with a poorly designed study, the evidence is garbage.

And THAT sir is just a FINE example of homophobia!

ho·mo·pho·bia
Pronunciation: \ˌhō-mə-ˈfō-bē-ə\
Function: noun
Date: 1969
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals


Because a couple of the researchers are lesbians YOU decide, in direct conflict with people who actually KNOW what the fuck they are talking about, like the medical journal "Pediatrics" and their peer reviews, that the study is garbage. (and without even READING the damn thing to see the methodology used).

So, instead of facts, you decide that because they are lesbians that they are biased and the study is garbage. Do you also think the same thing about the thousands of studies of sexuality done by hetero researchers?

Dude, your logic has more holes in than Swiss cheese. Saying the study is biased because of the researchers orientation is as ignorant as NOM and the freakin Mormons trying to overturn the Prop 8 decision because the judge was gay.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Oh and one more thing... For someone who just accused me of not reading the article above... You clearly read everything BUT the conclusion which states NOTHING ABOUT LESBIANS BEING BETTER PARENTS as you so vehemently proclaimed. See below...



From the article...

"Conclusions: Adolescents who have been reared in lesbian-mother families since birth demonstrate healthy psychological adjustment. These findings have implications for the clinical care of adolescents and for pediatricians who are consulted on matters that pertain to same-sex parenting."

Where does it say they make better parents?

You REALLY need to work on your reading comprehension, dude. I said you didn't read the study, not the article. The article is a summary of the study. Get your act together before you get all huffy, foot stompy and man chest beaty, K?

But what the hell... From the ARTICLE:

"Results: According to their mothers' reports, the 17-year-old daughters and sons of lesbian mothers were rated significantly higher in social, school/academic, and total competence and significantly lower in social problems, rule-breaking, aggressive, and externalizing problem behavior than their age-matched counterparts in Achenbach's normative sample of American youth. Within the lesbian family sample, no Child Behavior Checklist differences were found among adolescent offspring who were conceived by known, as-yet-unknown, and permanently unknown donors or between offspring whose mothers were still together and offspring whose mothers had separated.."

 

[warl0ck1]

I skewd the results for mother father groups I was a total deviant as a youth. I credit the army for keeping me out of jail.

my brother was the good one.

 

[rbone04]

You REALLY need to work on your reading comprehension, dude. I said you didn't read the study, not the article. The article is a summary of the study. Get your act together before you get all huffy, foot stompy and man chest beaty, K?

But what the hell... From the ARTICLE:

"Results: According to their mothers' reports, the 17-year-old daughters and sons of lesbian mothers were rated significantly higher in social, school/academic, and total competence and significantly lower in social problems, rule-breaking, aggressive, and externalizing problem behavior than their age-matched counterparts in Achenbach's normative sample of American youth. Within the lesbian family sample, no Child Behavior Checklist differences were found among adolescent offspring who were conceived by known, as-yet-unknown, and permanently unknown donors or between offspring whose mothers were still together and offspring whose mothers had separated.."

Again... Read PG. 20 LAST PARAGRAPH. And though I said article, I misspoke. Your STUDY doesn't amount to anything even remotely close to a conclusion that PROVES lesbians are better mothers. According to this court briefing, the APA has a ton of info explaining how studies have FAILED to show any significant difference. Yes... Even your study.

 

[rbone04]

I skewd the results for mother father groups I was a total deviant as a youth. I credit the army for keeping me out of jail.

my brother was the good one.

That's because they weren't lesbians.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Again... Read PG. 20 LAST PARAGRAPH. And though I said article, I misspoke. Your STUDY doesn't amount to anything even remotely close to a conclusion that PROVES lesbians are better mothers. According to this court briefing, the APA has a ton of info explaining how studies have FAILED to show any significant difference. Yes... Even your study.

Fine. Whatever.

You're gonna believe what ever you want. You admit to discounting the study because it was written by researchers who are lesbians and give MORE credence to a fucking Amicus Brief which was written for an entirely different purpose BEFORE this study was published. Then you make a negative claim about the study and use a like back to the brief as your proof.

That's okay though dude. Carry on. Say "Hi" to Maggie Galagher for me cuz you both obviously shop for facts to back up your homophobic opinions at the same place.

 

[Safe_Bet]

That's because they weren't lesbians.

Yeah, now tell me again how YOU aren't biased against lesbians after making that statement.

 

[FemmeDyke89]

So long as the child is happy, healthy and loved it need not matter the sex/sexual orientation of it's parents or guardians.

 

[rbone04]

Yeah, now tell me again how YOU aren't biased against lesbians after making that statement.

I made the statement because you get pissed and it's funny that you insist on calling my criticism of a piece of shit study homophobia. Again... Not biased against lesbians WHATSOEVER. I am biased against something passed off as science that was conducted by individuals with a vested interest in the very sample group the study is designed to examine. Also biased against people making unsubstantiated claims such as:

"I posted the only documented evidence that lesbians are better parents."

Recheck your post if you think it's out of context.

You say my brief was intended for a different purpose... Doesn't matter. That section has no purpose except it only presents a wealth of collected data on this very topic. And while you jump on my case, you fail to mention the purpose of your data IS NOT to prove lesbians are better parents. But that's the conclusion you draw despite ZERO MENTION these findings (biased or not) should suggest it.

Fact is, if your nonlesbianfanaticalfeministphobia didn't make you black out every time someone mentions anything you disagree with you would have remembered the compliments I've given throughout this thread for personal experiences shared... INCLUDING YOURS!

 

[LucyH]

Whoa there... I think the big problem is the only people choosing other are the ones who think parental configuration doesn't matter... Perhaps it's how I framed the question and failed to leave a box for "Don't think it matters" since it obviously creates another issue.

I will also say, even though I fall in this category, you are indeed the only one with scientific proof otherwise. So even though I've been asked so matter-of-factly "what's the point as long as they're loving" a half-dozen times and counting... There is clearly a solid argument that it does matter and there is a point.

Yeah. I put down "other" because of the lack of anything else I could pick that wasn't ridiculous.

 

[PricelessT]

Whose heads are going to explode? The kids or the parents?

I can tell you from experience it's not the kids! As a queer parent I've associated with 100s of other queer parents over the years and the kids NEVER have a problem with it. It is either us parents experiencing angst over it or fundie asshat flipping out.

rbone04 was talking about threesome-parenting. Even you stated that "Other" is "a microscopic portion of the population." So how many threesome-parenting encounters have you had while associating with hundreds of queer parents over the years?

I'm not going to comment on the six votes side of things because honestly that's a bit confusing to me too, but I will on where- and why- you placed your vote. Of course I respect your right to have an opinion but I think you're wrong, documented evidence or no. Aside from the fact that I guarantee you that if I wanted to I could find plenty of (probably skewed or religious backed, but still) studies showing that homosexual parents are far worse than straight parents... I just don't think sexual orientation matters when it comes to raising kids. I'm sure there are absolutely fantastic lesbian mothers, just as I'm equally sure there are fantastic straight mothers and fathers, gay fathers, and transgender parents too. I'm also sure I could find more than a few shitty parents no matter where I look. It's a matter of love for the child, not whether the parents prefer men or women.

Me? I didn't vote in the poll, precisely because of that. I'm willing to bet I'm not alone in doing so. And it's hardly evidence of a skew in the readership of this forum that your preferred option hasn't gotten more votes anyway. It just means nobody bothered to vote in an internet poll.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Okay, you believe I'm wrong IN SPITE of the documented, peer reviewed study published in a renowned medical journal and in defense of these beliefs you offer some "I'm not gonna be arsed to find them" theoretical studies that you admit are biased. You then go on by saying, "Yeah, but there are good and bad parents in EVERY group". Did I get that right? Can you see why I don't give any credence to your viewpoint?

Undeniably, there are good and bad parents in every group. But what we are discussing here are the GROUPS not individuals. In SEVERAL studies lesbians have been PROVEN to be superior parents. This isn't saying that they love their kids more or that anyone else doesn't love their kids as much. What it does say is that there are certain skill sets that lesbian parents exhibit MORE that lead to better adjusted, happier children. That's the ONLY real criteria on who is and who's not the best parents, IMO. Loving you kids is a given for most all parents, but has damn little to do with what makes the best parents.

Kurokami was saying that one study doesn't necessarily prove or disprove the study's subject matter. When studies "prove" a positive, there are usually going to be studies in conflict with it "proving" a negative. For example, there are studies for and against the assertion that playing violent video games creates and/or increases violent tendencies in individuals (usually males). Research concerning theories/proposals is only strong if it is consistently reproduced, such as studies consistently showing that children of LGBT parents grow up to live normal, well-adjusted lives just as much as children of heterosexual parents. You said that there are several studies showing that lesbians are superior parents than all other parenting groups. If there are, this cannot be declared the consensus of the scientific community unless reported as consensus from the scientific community. They have, for example, reported that "that gay and lesbian parents are as fit and capable as heterosexual parents, and their children are as psychologically healthy and well-adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents."

That said, it is a step up that you have provided research to back your claims, even if not backing all of your claims about the subject.

 

[Kurokami]

Kurokami was saying that one study doesn't necessarily prove or disprove the study's subject matter. When studies "prove" a positive, there are usually going to be studies in conflict with it "proving" a negative. For example, there are studies for and against the assertion that playing violent video games creates and/or increases violent tendencies in individuals (usually males). Research concerning theories/proposals is only strong if it is consistently reproduced, such as studies consistently showing that children of LGBT parents grow up to live normal, well-adjusted lives just as much as children of heterosexual parents. You said that there are several studies showing that lesbians are superior parents than all other parenting groups. If there are, this cannot be declared the consensus of the scientific community unless reported as consensus from the scientific community. They have, for example, reported that "that gay and lesbian parents are as fit and capable as heterosexual parents, and their children are as psychologically healthy and well-adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents."

That said, it is a step up that you have provided research to back your claims, even if not backing all of your claims about the subject.

Pretty much, yeah. On all points, especially the last one. Could have phrased that post better

I guess my main issue with Safe Bet's study, and any study on this subject really, is that the sexual orientation of the sample groups still isn't the issue at hand, because their sexual orientation isn't what makes them good or bad parents. The moment a woman becomes sexually active with other women, she doesn't suddenly gain some rush of god given insight as to how to be a mother. Whatever parenting skills lesbian mothers do have can still be attained by straight, bi, what have you parents.

"Lesbians make better mothers," doesn't make sense as a conclusion, because it's not the fact that they're lesbians that make them better mothers. Do lesbian mothers sometimes (often) raise better adjusted kids? Alright, fine. But it's not the fact that they're gay that caused that to happen. I don't think that's a particularly controversial statement.

 

[PricelessT]

You're right that the "lesbians make better mothers" conclusion isn't about their being lesbian having made them that way. It's about children being raised by two women generally turning out better than children of other sex-combinations. Whether one believes that to be true or not is another matter.