Gone-tanamo Bay

[rgraham666]

It's not all mad support for Obama.

At least one economist I respect has his doubts.

 

[cloudy]

It's not all mad support for Obama.

At least one economist I respect has his doubts.

As stated in the article, a speech is just a speech.

Expecting our new president to outline everything he's planning to do in an eighteen-minute inaugural speech is asking just a bit much, don't you think?

 

[off2bed]

As stated in the article, a speech is just a speech.

Expecting our new president to outline everything he's planning to do in an eighteen-minute inaugural speech is asking just a bit much, don't you think?

Doesn't matter, people think he's going to pay their mortgage and put gas in their car, and make the world stop hating us. They don't care what he actually plans to do. Neither did the media, or they would have asked him during the campaign.

 

[DesertPirate]

Doesn't matter, people think he's going to pay their mortgage and put gas in their car, and make the world stop hating us. They don't care what he actually plans to do. Neither did the media, or they would have asked him during the campaign.

They want the government to give them everything, that is the problem. Entitlement mentality.

 

[off2bed]

They want the government to give them everything, that is the problem. Entitlement mentality.

Exactly. Sadly, the right expected W to roll back government spending and put sanity into the tax code, and got the opposite. The entitlement mentality is winning either way.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

An economist on the news this morning predicts the DOW is going down to 3800 and massive deflation of prices/wages.

CLOUDY

Dont start waffling. Obama should know where he's going by now. If I was President 3 days I could list what my plans are. You dont make shit up as you go along.

 

[cloudy]

An economist on the news this morning predicts the DOW is going down to 3800 and massive deflation of prices/wages.

CLOUDY

Dont start waffling. Obama should know where he's going by now. If I was President 3 days I could list what my plans are. You dont make shit up as you go along.

That's not what I said. I said expecting him to outline it all in an eighteen minute inaugural speech was unrealistic.

Keep up.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

CLOUDY


According to CNN Barack doesnt wanna talk about it at all. Apparently his skin is thin when reporters ask him questions.

 

[JackLuis]

That's not what I said. I said expecting him to outline it all in an eighteen minute inaugural speech was unrealistic.

Keep up.

To get back to the point of this thread.
What is going to happen to the inmates of this "detention facility"?
Some will be let go, the Brits and Canadians and a few others we had no reason to detain in the first place, but there are some that are too dangerous to let go. Atleast not after they have been subjected to the wonders of "inhanced interrogation".

The 20 -30, hell perhaps a hundred of them would be bombers or worse, what will Obama do with them?

 

[midwestyankee]

Why isn't anyone asking the NIMBY folk (sure, you can let them terrorists out of Gitmo but don't put any of them in my back yard) this very simple question: do you not trust the American military to protect you from a few ordinary men in orange jumpsuits?

What is it about these men that you think makes them, when armed with nothing more than a jail-made shiv if that, a more powerful force than the military jail-keepers who would supervise them? These are ordinary criminals who happened to have spat on our egos by attacking us on our own land. That we already have several of their comrades safely ensconced in American military prisons seems to matter not to these people.

To paraphrase someone recently departed from Washington, if you fear the terrorists then the terrorists have won.

 

[off2bed]

http://aviacioncr.net/foros/usuarios/img/cm35gnvt_gajo de taca.jpg

BEIRUT: The emergence of a former Guantánamo Bay detainee as the deputy leader of Al Qaeda's Yemeni branch has underscored the potential complications in carrying out the executive order that President Barack Obama signed that the detention center be shut down within a year.

I fear terrorists that are on the loose. Those locked away on an island, I don't fear.

 

[midwestyankee]

http://aviacioncr.net/foros/usuarios/img/cm35gnvt_gajo de taca.jpg

Indeed. And whom do we have to thank for this nasty little dilemma? Oh, I remember....some guy named Bush, wasn't it? Has anyone considered the possibility that if only Bush had treated these criminals like criminals — even military criminals if you want to continue with the whole "war on terror" meme — we wouldn't be in this mess?

Of course not, because Bush could do no wrong and Obama can do no right. Of course.

 

[off2bed]

Oh yeah, Bush was the sole decision maker on whether this one guy was released.

I don't buy "If you fear the terrorists, they've won." They don't want us to fear them, they want us to die or convert. If I die or convert to Islam, they've won.

 

[midwestyankee]

http://aviacioncr.net/foros/usuarios/img/cm35gnvt_gajo de taca.jpg



I fear terrorists that are on the loose. Those locked away on an island, I don't fear.

So you don't trust the same military prisons that are already safely holding a dozen previously convicted terrorists (the folks who brought you the 1993 WTC bombing, for example)? And if someone is planted firmly in a Leavenworth military prison, how exactly does that qualify as "on the loose?"

 

[off2bed]

So you don't trust the same military prisons that are already safely holding a dozen previously convicted terrorists (the folks who brought you the 1993 WTC bombing, for example)? And if someone is planted firmly in a Leavenworth military prison, how exactly does that qualify as "on the loose?"

That might be acceptable. I'd like to see them in solitary with no contact with the outside world, no law libraries to peruse, no phone lines to the outside world. But that's probably considered cruel and unusual.

 

[JackLuis]

So you don't trust the same military prisons that are already safely holding a dozen previously convicted terrorists (the folks who brought you the 1993 WTC bombing, for example)? And if someone is planted firmly in a Leavenworth military prison, how exactly does that qualify as "on the loose?"

If Bush could have convicted the "detainees" don't you think he would have?

The Problem is lack of untainted evidence. So how do you put these guys in Prison, if they haven't been convicted?
Not very American to imprison a unconvicted man is it.

You could just let them go home to thier country of origion, but if they got free and re-joined the jihad, we'd just have to kill them the next time they got caught.

I don't see how Obama is going to deal with the most militant ones. Perhaps he'll just let them go. I doubt he will just "dissapear" them? Bush didn't have the guts to do that.

 

[midwestyankee]

That might be acceptable. I'd like to see them in solitary with no contact with the outside world, no law libraries to peruse, no phone lines to the outside world. But that's probably considered cruel and unusual.

Look, the folks who planned and carried out the 1993 WTC bombing have been held for 15 years in the same jails as the Gitmo crowd are likely to call home. Nobody, and I mean nobody has been crying Chicken Little just because we have those characters in jail.

The preferences you state here sound like a watered down version of vengeance. Why should we treat these people - many of whom were rounded up in bulk like handfuls of granola at the Whole Foods store - any differently than other criminals convicted of similar crimes?

Now there's also two other possibilities to be considered.

First, what about someone who turns out to be innocent of all charges? We ought to return those folks to their native countries. Ah, but now they hate the U. S. even more than they did before and they might be dangerous. Yes, indeed. And whose fault is that? It certainly isn't Obama's fault that the Dick and Georgie show created the conditions for this. Of course, that's what the very existence of Gitmo is already doing overseas, too. Heckuva job, Georgie.

Second, what if all the evidence against some of these guys has to be thrown out because it was obtained illegally through torture? We have to let them free as well, don't we? Because if we convict them anyway we've descended to the Saddam Hussein school of justice, haven't we? And wouldn't you be proud to be known around the world as a citizen of a country whose justice works no better than Saddam Hussein's?

Yep, heckuva job, Georgie.

 

[off2bed]

Why should we treat these people - many of whom were rounded up in bulk like handfuls of granola at the Whole Foods store - any differently than other criminals convicted of similar crimes?

First, what about someone who turns out to be innocent of all charges? We ought to return those folks to their native countries. Ah, but now they hate the U. S. even more than they did before and they might be dangerous. Yes, indeed. And whose fault is that? It certainly isn't Obama's fault that the Dick and Georgie show created the conditions for this. Of course, that's what the very existence of Gitmo is already doing overseas, too. Heckuva job, Georgie.

Second, what if all the evidence against some of these guys has to be thrown out because it was obtained illegally through torture? We have to let them free as well, don't we? Because if we convict them anyway we've descended to the Saddam Hussein school of justice, haven't we? And wouldn't you be proud to be known around the world as a citizen of a country whose justice works no better than Saddam Hussein's?

Yep, heckuva job, Georgie.

So send the cops to the middle east with billy clubs. Hope that work out for ya.

 

[DesertPirate]

If Bush could have convicted the "detainees" don't you think he would have?

The Problem is lack of untainted evidence. So how do you put these guys in Prison, if they haven't been convicted?
Not very American to imprison a unconvicted man is it.

You could just let them go home to thier country of origion, but if they got free and re-joined the jihad, we'd just have to kill them the next time they got caught.

I don't see how Obama is going to deal with the most militant ones. Perhaps he'll just let them go. I doubt he will just "dissapear" them? Bush didn't have the guts to do that.

They are still "Military" prisoners and not subject to the same rights, courts, and treatment as American citizens. Keep that in mind, there is a distinction for a reason.

Did Bush waste way too much time on prosecuting them, YES! This should have been finished 3 years ago.

 

[midwestyankee]

If Bush could have convicted the "detainees" don't you think he would have?

The Problem is lack of untainted evidence. So how do you put these guys in Prison, if they haven't been convicted?
Not very American to imprison a unconvicted man is it.

Actually, we imprison unconvicted people all the time - while they're waiting for and going through trial. What matters is that they are given a fair and speedy trial. And if the evidence is tainted, whose fault is that? Are you going to blame Obama because many of these prisoners were tortured under the Bush administration?

You could just let them go home to thier country of origion, but if they got free and re-joined the jihad, we'd just have to kill them the next time they got caught.

Yes, indeed. Some of these guys are not nice people and if we can't convict them they might just be a little bit tempted to try to get back at us for mistreating them for seven or eight years. Wouldn't you do the same?

I don't see how Obama is going to deal with the most militant ones. Perhaps he'll just let them go. I doubt he will just "dissapear" them? Bush didn't have the guts to do that.

If they're tried and found guilty of crimes, no doubt they'll be sentenced to jail time. If they're found not guilty, for whatever reasons, no doubt they'll be returned to their home countries, though some of those countries are less observant of human rights than we are.

It's a quandary, for sure. But the fact that it's a puzzling quandary is no reason for us to wallow in the land of Saddam Hussein justice. Sometimes you just have to do something difficult because it's the right thing to do.

At least if you're a moral person, that is.

 

[midwestyankee]

So send the cops to the middle east with billy clubs. Hope that work out for ya.

And when did we get the right to do this? Look, the simple answer is that if Bush had not been afraid of using courts in the U. S. this would all have been taken care of four or five years ago. He fucked up and now the country has to unravel his fuckup. That it's messy is a reflection on Bush and not on Obama.

 

[JackLuis]

They are still "Military" prisoners and not subject to the same rights, courts, and treatment as American citizens. Keep that in mind, there is a distinction for a reason.

Did Bush waste way too much time on prosecuting them, YES! This should have been finished 3 years ago.

Even the "Military" has rules about unlawful detention.

When I first heard about "Camp X-ray' I knew that it was a bad idea. In reality there was no way to "convict" any of them legaly. They should have never made it to camp X-ray.

I guess the only solution is to drop them off in the territorial waters of their native lands and let them swim the 12 miles to shore.

 

[DesertPirate]

Even the "Military" has rules about unlawful detention.

When I first heard about "Camp X-ray' I knew that it was a bad idea. In reality there was no way to "convict" any of them legaly. They should have never made it to camp X-ray.

I guess the only solution is to drop them off in the territorial waters of their native lands and let them swim the 12 miles to shore.

I endorse that idea!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The next time the ragheads attack America, the people will know what to do with Obama and the Usual Suspects. He's rolls the dice and he takes his chances.

 

[mansome]

Obama has signed an executive order directing the facility be closed within a year.

This in itself will be seen by many around the world as representative of a change in direction from US leadership.

Guantanamo was an international embarrassment of epic proportions.

Hmmmmm.... seems like the man is already making difficult and potentially unpopular choices (47% of Americans believe Gitmo should remain open.)

But of course, the opposition line will be that Obama has no guts and is giving in to terrorists.

*sigh*

I've been a registered democrat for over 20 years and have become increasingly liberal with age... I totally support Obama, but also will have a critical eye with all his decisions like we should as patriotic Americans....

I think closing that place that's a spit in the face to the American way is a great idea...
Whether it's popular or not...

I took no pride in G.W. Bush failing as a president and failing this country because I'm a democrat... I truly wanted him to succeed...

I also have been critical of Michigan's democratic governor for her failure to keep the economy together and uphold her promises... I do give her major kudos though for turning down Obama for a cabinet seat so she could concentrate on the issues facing Michigan....