He's A Hero.

[Weird Harold]

I dont know, but I suspect both of you are embarrassed about yourselves.

I have been on both ends of the "hero" equation. I was properly grateful to the person who resued me and excessivley modest about the "rescues" I've performed.

The thing is, when there is someone with the appropriate training around, hero situations are generally no big deal. It is only when the proper training isn't present (or present at an unusual age) that "hero situations" make the news -- good hero situations and bad "no-heros around situations."

 

[oggbashan]

Perhaps because of my extensive training as a volunteer I've never been on the victim end of a rescue operation - except by pretending to be a victim during that training.

I did many dangerous things in my younger days and maybe I was lucky that I didn't need someone else to rescue me. As a trained volunteer I participated in several rescues as part of a team. There were no heroics needed or displayed because we were doing what we were trained to do - safely and quickly with precautions to minimise the risks to the rescuers.

Only once was I stupid enough to be foolhardy - retrieving the body I mentioned earlier. From the top of the cliff the body's movements seemed to indicate that the person was alive. Once I came close it was obvious it wasn't and hadn't been for a long time. At that point I should have aborted the rescue. I carried on. That was stupid and my team leader bawled me out in private later - once I had recovered from the injuries.

I have performed rescues as a member of the public that were no great deal - such as hauling a person suffering from cramp out of the sea. I was at no risk. The person was cooperating. It took me a couple of minutes and I could resume surfing. It was no more praiseworthy than holding out a hand to stop a passer-by from falling on ice.

But what several of us have said still applies: If you aren't trained in water rescue you can easily become just another victim. Do what you can without entering the water.

Og

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

BLACKIE

If I was wrong you wouldnt be so filled with steam. If your kid was in peril and a first responder did nothing, I'm confident you'd be mildly annoyed rather than understanding and supportive.

 

[sr71plt]

BLACKIE, HAROLD

I dont know, but I suspect both of you are embarrassed about yourselves. I dont get your steam about the medics. I also suspect both of you would get in line as recipients of heroism....while denying it to people you might be able to save.

More likely that you got up from your armchair to hit the can and sat on a beer bottle cap when you returned and are uncomfortable enough to be unusually sour and belligerent but too lazy to get up and remove the bottle cap.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SKY PILOT

Yo Mama

 

[sr71plt]

SKY PILOT

Yo Mama

Would I be a hero to you if I came and found the bottle cap so you could be totally comfy in your armchair again?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SKY PILOT

Youre always my hero, and I keep your picture on my piano. But youre being quarrelsome with no valid argument.

While I'm on the subject. My best friend did some time working for the CIA in Southeast Asia circa 1968-1969. He was Air Force. Anyway, the camp was attacked and the CIA pussies hauled ass leaving the Air Force crew behind to deal with it. Most of the AF guys were killed.

Bravo! clap, clap, clap

 

[sr71plt]

SKY PILOT

Youre always my hero, and I keep your picture on my piano. But youre being quarrelsome with no valid argument.

While I'm on the subject. My best friend did some time working for the CIA in Southeast Asia circa 1968-1969. He was Air Force. Anyway, the camp was attacked and the CIA pussies hauled ass leaving the Air Force crew behind to deal with it. Most of the AF guys were killed.

Bravo! clap, clap, clap

Yeah, well. My cousin Clem had a jeep that was once owned by Gene Autry who also made up a story once to "prove" a point too. So, we're even.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SKY PILOT

Except my story is true. Your team hauled ass out of Dodge on whatever flew. There wasnt room for everyone, and the AF got to stay behind.

I imagine it was covered in a CIA rule book...."If there isnt room for everyone, it sux to be them."

 

[sr71plt]

SKY PILOT

Except my story is true.

Oh, yes, indeedy. I'm sure. I'm sure a lot of true stories run by between your armchair and your computer.

 

[BlackShanglan]

BLACKIE

If I was wrong you wouldnt be so filled with steam.

I realize that it is quite impossible for you to imagine someone being angered by a slight given to someone else. It is, nonetheless, not an uncommon reaction.

For some of us.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

BLACKIE

I think it's easier for some people to get angry when they identify with the subject.

But the bottom-line is, if I wasnt right about this no one would honor heroes. These people get a PASS because the book covers their candy-asses.

 

[sr71plt]

BLACKIE

I think it's easier for some people to get angry when they identify with the subject.

But the bottom-line is, if I wasnt right about this no one would honor heroes. These people get a PASS because the book covers their candy-asses.

*sigh* People honor these heros because they went beyond the expected and prudent--and often beyond their capabilities despite their limitations. This isn't about regard for heroics, this is about your unreasonable and dogmatic statements about what everyone should do no matter what their training and the conditions.

You are the one who can't seem to give up an untenable position here.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SKY PILOT

BULL-LONEY! You guys identify with the sissies.

I see more and more of this with first responders. It's just like the National Guard Weenies trying to argue that they didnt sign up for fighting!

Pathetic.

 

[BlackShanglan]

But the bottom-line is, if I wasnt right about this no one would honor heroes. These people get a PASS because the book covers their candy-asses.

What Sr said.

I'll add, as well, that you're now assigning someone the full time job of being a hero as well as whatever he or she was hired to do. While it would certainly be convenient for us all to be able to assign others the job of laying down their lives whenever we'd like them to, it's the sort of demand that only someone who never intended to be in that position would make.

As for what tends to move people to strong emotion, certainly identifying with others can. I, apparently unlike you, have learned and experienced enough about water rescue to recognize how dangerous a rescue attempt would be and to empathize with the position the men were in. That empathy leads me to suggest that there's a position somewhere between "candy ass" and "hero" that those men occupy, that position being "people attempting to minimize loss of life while doing the best they could with the training and equipment they'd been given."

You apparently would prefer to imagine a world in which only heroes and cowards exist. The motivations for that behavior strike me as at least as interesting as the possible motives for taking up the defense of innocent people being maligned by a willfully ignorant chaffer. What is the motivation for ignoring all available information and clinging instead to a mantra of "there's me and my heroes, and then there are all of those cowards and morally bankrupt people out there, and that's all there can be"? Is there something about engaging with facts, reasoning, and the possibility of decent people thinking differently to you that you find especially threatening and offensive?

 

[sr71plt]

SKY PILOT

BULL-LONEY! You guys identify with the sissies.

I see more and more of this with first responders. It's just like the National Guard Weenies trying to argue that they didnt sign up for fighting!

Pathetic.

Sorry, but I had to guffaw at this. I had a vision of a dumpy old man (sorry, you're the one who posted that avatar) bouncing up and down in his lazy boy in a tattered robe (the one he had his corporal stripes and good conduct medal sewn to), donut in one hand and beer can in the other, yelling at the TV, telling the world how they should do things, wondering when his wife Mavis is going to get around to plopping a sandwich down on the TV tray next to him, and pounding away on a porn chat room forum on his trusty old Commodore computer. Thanks for the vision. Absolutely precious.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

BLACKIE

I dont believe they did all they could do. They were presented with a challenge and they hid behind the rule book.

 

[ishtat]

OG



The medic in THIS story is a coward.

Possibly, but as another person who trained in lifesaving in Australia I would much prefer a coward in an emergency that some 'gung ho' would be superman. The coward will not add to the original problem and in my experience very frightened people can be effective if led/instructed by trained people.

One particular case springs to mind where a dozen or so people were hanging around a beach when a woman was trapped on the wrong side of a sand bar in the surf. They were instructed to form a human chain which was very effective in hauling her through the last 8 metres or so of a really difficult rip.

It's also worth remembering that so called 'cowardice' is our survival instinct at work. We should be careful before we condemn.

 

[BlackShanglan]

BLACKIE

I dont believe they did all they could do. They were presented with a challenge and they hid behind the rule book.

You know nothing about what they did. You don't know what other actions they took, what other services had or had not been called, or - and really, it's amazing how often you've decided to overlook this issue - whether any of them could swim.

You have no information on which to base your opinion. Clearly, then, it's coming from somewhere else. Some part of you simply finds the idea of yelling at people and calling them cowards attractive, and you see this as a chance to do so. It's an ugly little sport, but admittedly one that must look appealingly safe. It's not as if the people you're maligning were here to defend themselves.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

ISHTAT

I'm not advocating Superman. I contend the medics knew they were 'safe' on base and took no risks to save lives by doing more. That is, they were more interested in protecting themselves than doing their duty to the drowning victims.

The issue is very simple.

 

[sr71plt]

ISHTATThe issue is very simple.

Well, yes it is. Interesting, though, that you don't seem to be able to understand it.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SKY PILOT

You seem frustrated that I see your BULL-LONEY for what it is. Those guys are bureaucrats covering their butts.

 

[sr71plt]

SKY PILOT

You seem frustrated that I see your BULL-LONEY for what it is. Those guys are bureaucrats covering their butts.

Nah, I find you amusing--and such a sterotype.