HOT: Should it be 4.1?

[SmilingLez]

There are tons of excellent stories out there with no red H. Butt tons of them are just below it. All those 4.49, 4.48, 4.40... They get ignored because of that ridiculous bauble. Readers use it as an easy button, but they're not doing themselves any favors.

I read two great stories in the loving wives category. Different perspectives, both got ratings in the low 3ish range. Both were excellent in construction and in storytelling and I gave five stars and comments.

 

[TheLobster]

Yet, you wanted to give one to 80% or more stories.

When everyone's a winner, no one is.

 

[Duil2]

As a writer on here I have to say that I've stopped worrying about the H on my stories simply because some of the ones that have it are not as good, in my opinion, as some that don't have it. Readers vote 5* for such a variety of individual reasons but very often it's neither because the story was particularly well written or particularly erotic, it's just because it appealed to them in some special way. Also, they often down vote perfectly good stories perhaps because the fit into the category wasn't perfect in their opinion which again is subjective. No matter what way you tweak the system it'll still be subject to the fickleness and foibles of the unique individuals that are the Literotica readership.

 

[Duil2]

Modest proposal: let readers set their own cutoffs for the H, and display it to each reader according to their own cutoffs.

Not a bad idea. It might also make more readers have a profile and log in because I'm guessing it would only be applied to logged in accounts, maybe.

 

[StillStunned]

There are tons of excellent stories out there with no red H. Butt tons of them are just below it. All those 4.49, 4.48, 4.40... They get ignored because of that ridiculous bauble. Readers use it as an easy button, but they're not doing themselves any favors.

I have plenty of stories with the red H that get ignored anyway: 27 of my 28 lowest-viewed stories (with 5k as the cut-off point).

Curiously, the next four are all without the red H.

 

[Duil2]

I have plenty of stories with the red H that get ignored anyway: 27 of my 28 lowest-viewed stories (with 5k as the cut-off point).

Curiously, the next four are all without the red H.

I'd agree it doesn't necessarily invite people to read if the story isn't in their favourite category or something. Some of my H stories got there because maybe 14 people voted high enough but the votes and views are now static. As I say it's all so subjective.

 

[MaudeBlack]

It's interesting, especially from a new writers perspective, as I became mildly obsessed with the red 'Hot' tag with my first few pieces. Even now I get a little 'Oh, why?' if something doesn't get there.
I kinda like the idea of the tag being removed all together. As an avid Literotica reader, as well as writer, my eye is always drawn to 'H' tagged stories. I think it's human nature.
Although, as a writer, the piece of work I'm most proud of on here (my 'Bike' trilogy) has, by any measure (any measure being stars), a low rating.

Xx

 

[nice90sguy]

I use tag search when seeking stories, then I look at "H"s and titles to decide which to click on first. If the "H"s didn;t exist at all, I'd expect a "sort by popularity/score" kind of thing to help me sift though the list

 

[Voboy]

FWIW, I've read some red tagged stories and was very disappointed. I didn't give a rating nor did I comment.

I'm the same way.

In some ways, we're the problem. We need to be downvoting such stories, or else the status quo works even worse.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

You could give a Red H to 90% of stories and there are a couple of people on this forum who will ensure that I never get one.

 

[SimonDoom]

The bloody H shouldn't exist at all. It provides an easy target for trolls, creates undue anxiety for authors, and presents an arbitrary bar that causes readers to ignore anything that doesn't have it.

It's an abomination that serves nobody.

At this point, the ONLY justification for a red H is the authors' egos. Authors have their red Hs, and it makes them feel like they've earned a meaningful distinction, which they haven't, and they don't want to let go of them. Since they in fact represent nothing more than a mean average score story, they don't indicate distinction of any kind, and they serve no purpose in terms of directing readers to "good" stories, which is the only really legitimate purpose. So, I agree. Either get rid of them or reform the system so a red H represents a certain percentile threshold, which would actually mean something and would be less gameable.

 

[nice90sguy]

I think we should make "H" a lower number, like 1.0, for all Loving Wives stories.

 

[SimonDoom]

Actually I think it's closer to 85% if I'm not mistaken.

I think you are right. I didn't want to go to the trouble of looking at the stats again, and I didn't want to overstate it. (meaning= lazy).

 

[Duil2]

I think we should make "H" a lower number, like 1.0, for all Loving Wives stories.

You should actually get a medal for being brave enough to publish in that category at all. That being said i find it endlessly entertaining and have begun trying to think up ideas that I know would cause them to loose their minds just for the fun of having 30 odd comments to read instead of 0.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I think you are right. I didn't want to go to the trouble of looking at the stats again, and I didn't want to overstate it. (meaning= lazy).

Someone posted percentiles a few months back (was it ActingUp?) for several categories. I looked up my percentiles for my 4.2s and they were around 10-20th. The rest of my stuff was <5th percentile.

I've never cared about the scores themselves but I can't even get read with scores this low. Publishing here is pointless for me. The scores make a huge difference for getting hits. I know this because at rare times when I've had a story over 4.5 it gets dozens of hist per day, but as soon as it slips below i get 1 or 2 hits per day.

So message to haters: it works great. You win.

 

[anthrodisiac]

At this point, the ONLY justification for a red H is the authors' egos. Authors have their red Hs, and it makes them feel like they've earned a meaningful distinction, which they haven't, and they don't want to let go of them. Since they in fact represent nothing more than a mean average score story, they don't indicate distinction of any kind, and they serve no purpose in terms of directing readers to "good" stories, which is the only really legitimate purpose. So, I agree. Either get rid of them or reform the system so a red H represents a certain percentile threshold, which would actually mean something and would be less gameable.

That's not true. Becasue the H has been a staple of this site for a long time, they're now a signal that the readers of the site expect, so it's not just for the authors, it's something readers are actively using to determine which stories to read. They're so embedded with how the site functions that it would require a massive mental shift for readers who've been here for a while to understand, and you'd probably have them skipping a lot of stories before they realize that none of them have H's anymore, or not understand that the H system changed, because really, how many are going to read up on system changes? You shift that system to something where fewer stories get Hs, and all the people who use the Hs as indicators are going to congregate in that smaller subset of stories and the numbers drop for all those stories that would otherwise have Hs.

Now, how big that drop is, I don't know. But you will see a meaningful shift in reader behavior, as one would expect of any major UI/UX change in a very established system, especially one most readers wouldn't actually be aware of for some time, if at all.

 

[TheIntrepidBoyager]

At this point, the ONLY justification for a red H is the authors' egos. Authors have their red Hs, and it makes them feel like they've earned a meaningful distinction, which they haven't, and they don't want to let go of them. Since they in fact represent nothing more than a mean average score story, they don't indicate distinction of any kind, and they serve no purpose in terms of directing readers to "good" stories, which is the only really legitimate purpose. So, I agree. Either get rid of them or reform the system so a red H represents a certain percentile threshold, which would actually mean something and would be less gameable.

I get your point but I suspect they have more meaning than that to the broader audience. I doubt many people at all have any idea how diluted/swayed/biased/etc. the scores are. I didn't consider many of those things until this thread. I'd guess a lot of people base their reading choices based off of those scores and especially the HOT rating.

Obviously, category plays a big role too but I think the HOT rating does have meaning for a lot of readers and therefore does, or at least can, have some impact on the author's exposure.

 

[SimonDoom]

That's not true. Becasue the H has been a staple of this site for a long time, they're now a signal that the readers of the site expect, so it's not just for the authors, it's something readers are actively using to determine which stories to read. They're so embedded with how the site functions that it would require a massive mental shift for readers who've been here for a while to understand, and you'd probably have them skipping a lot of stories before they realize that none of them have H's anymore, or not understand that the H system changed, because really, how many are going to read up on system changes? You shift that system to something where fewer stories get Hs, and all the people who use the Hs as indicators are going to congregate in that smaller subset of stories and the numbers drop for all those stories that would otherwise have Hs.

Now, how big that drop is, I don't know. But you will see a meaningful shift in reader behavior, as one would expect of any major UI/UX change in a very established system, especially one most readers wouldn't actually be aware of for some time, if at all.

I don't deny that readers have become accustomed to relying on the red H. I don't have the empirical evidence but it seems reasonable. And I suspect it's true that a drastic change in the current system might be disorienting and unwelcome. But I certainly question whether the current system, regardless of whether it's relied on or not, has any legitimate function when we know, for a fact, that getting a red H only means that your story has a median score. Readers are getting hood-winked. The reason I feel confident in saying that is that even here, in this forum, many authors seem to be under the impression that a red H conveys a level of distinction that it in fact does not. Readers, who have less information about the workings of the site than we do, are even more likely to be misguided.

Before people like 8Letters starting publishing statistical data in this forum about scores, I would have assumed that a red H was at least the top quarter. That's not even remotely true, except in Loving Wives.

 

[Djmac1031]

Ive always said the whole HOT thing has writers overthinking the ratings to the point where they're upset at any score under 4.5.

But consider the top two votes:
5 stars = LOVED IT
4 stars = LIKED IT

I'm more than happy if people LIKED my story. LOVED should be reserved for those true Top Tier stories that just blew you away.

So we SHOULD be PROUD of any score over 4. But of course we NEED 4.5 to achieve HOT status and earn that little extra badge.

I'd be okay with seeing the HOT badge go away and just go with the scores themselves.

Since that won't happen, I just suggest learning to live and be happy if your story achieves any rating over 4.

 

[SmilingLez]

I'm glad the EC tags are gone. If those stories were actually read by a human being, that human being lacks...

 

[FrancesScott]

I'm glad the EC tags are gone. If those stories were actually read by a human being, that human being lacks...

They are not gone.

 

[anthrodisiac]

I don't deny that readers have become accustomed to relying on the red H. I don't have the empirical evidence but it seems reasonable. And I suspect it's true that a drastic change in the current system might be disorienting and unwelcome. But I certainly question whether the current system, regardless of whether it's relied on or not, has any legitimate function when we know, for a fact, that getting a red H only means that your story has a median score. Readers are getting hood-winked. The reason I feel confident in saying that is that even here, in this forum, many authors seem to be under the impression that a red H conveys a level of distinction that it in fact does not. Readers, who have less information about the workings of the site than we do, are even more likely to be misguided.

Before people like 8Letters starting publishing statistical data in this forum about scores, I would have assumed that a red H was at least the top quarter. That's not even remotely true, except in Loving Wives.

To me, the H is more about knowing that readers are more likely to click on a story, not any level of distinction. But I'm also operating on very slim margins even with the H, so it's a lot more valuable to me, as a not-established, niche author, than someone who has tens of thousands of followers, tons of stories, and writes in very high-trafficked categories.

And it does serve as a distinction, because if a story can't even get to that low bar of 4.5, then wow, it must REALLY suck, because readers are so generous. That's what a reader seeing a story without an H thinks. They aren't being hoodwinked, they know exactly how this system operates, because there's a perverse incentive structure to give 5s, nothing, or know that you're going to be essentially dunking on that story with any other score and the question becomes how much are you gonna wreck that story's score?

 

[Djmac1031]

And it does serve as a distinction, because if a story can't even get to that low bar of 4.5, then wow, it must REALLY suck, because readers are so generous

And that, unfortunately, is the sad reality of the Red H effect. It's a vicious circle. Writers aren't satisfied with anything less than a 4.5 because they think readers will think their story must suck if its anything less.

And sadly yes, a majority of readers here probably use the Red H as a guideline for whether the story in question is worth reading.

again I'd suggest doing away with the Red H and just let the stories stand on their ratings.

Suddenly a 4 would actually mean what it's SUPPOSED to mean: that readers LIKED your story.

 

[SimonDoom]

To me, the H is more about knowing that readers are more likely to click on a story, not any level of distinction. But I'm also operating on very slim margins even with the H, so it's a lot more valuable to me, as a not-established, niche author, than someone who has tens of thousands of followers, tons of stories, and writes in very high-trafficked categories.

And it does serve as a distinction, because if a story can't even get to that low bar of 4.5, then wow, it must REALLY suck, because readers are so generous. That's what a reader seeing a story without an H thinks. They aren't being hoodwinked, they know exactly how this system operates, because there's a perverse incentive structure to give 5s, nothing, or know that you're going to be essentially dunking on that story with any other score and the question becomes how much are you gonna wreck that story's score?

I don't entirely agree with you, but at a certain point it feels like arguing over how many angels are dancing on the head of the pin. I don't feel too strongly about it. The system isn't going to change, if for no other reason than that too many people are invested in it, just the way it is, and my reading of the Site owners' few offered tea leaves is that they're not going to risk rocking the boat.

 

[anthrodisiac]

I don't entirely agree with you, but at a certain point it feels like arguing over how many angels are dancing on the head of the pin. I don't feel too strongly about it. The system isn't going to change, if for no other reason than that too many people are invested in it, just the way it is, and my reading of the Site owners' few offered tea leaves is that they're not going to risk rocking the boat.

And here I was in the middle of writing more or less the same thing: why are we bothering arguing about it, it changes nothing?

Great minds