How did you become a Feminist?

[Colleen Thomas]

Like many here, I don't know that there was a seminal point in time where I became a feminist or even became aware that I was one. I was raised with three brothers. Pretty much it was root hog or die

-Colly

 

[Guest]

I was raised with three brothers. Pretty much it was root hog or die

Oh, same here Colly. I'm the oldest and I remember the moment I decided I wasn't going to iron their shirts any longer, and that they could wash dishes too. I was 15.

thanks, Perdita

p.s. they're all feminists now

 

[Svenskaflicka]

The reason why people don't like the word "feminist" today, is because media has been ridiculing the word, and showing off the extremists instead of focusing on the agenda.
I've told the horrible tale on another thread, about a girl of 19 who told me that she didn't like feminism, she wanted equality! When the original message has been twisted so much that young women can't even name the colour of an orange, that's when the patriarchal system is smiling smugly.

Feminism is about equal rights, not payback. And equality - which shouldn't be confused with merely equal rights - makes both men and women independent.
But just as my ex (from Ghana) refused to call himself African-African or Coloured or anything like that, but proudly said "I'm black", I won't try to sugar-coat my ideals by calling myself something that I really am not, not yet. I'm not an independent woman, no matter how much I struggle to be, but I sure as hell am a FEMINIST!

 

[KarenAM]

I don't know if I'm a feminist or not these days; I suppose it depends on who you ask. I was raised in a fairly progressive family, and in the 1960's and 1970's felt I was a feminist. But somewhere in that period things began to go very wrong with feminism. Men began to be excluded and increasingly severe definitions of what it meant to be a feminist began to be imposed by feminists themselves. Women who questioned the leadership of groups like N.O.W. were increasingly regarded as traitors to their own gender. Women who saw many women's problems as being unsolvable without also addressing men's problems were derided and shunned. Then all men were vilified as rapists and monsters and all expressions of sexuality began to be seen as the oppression of women.

Marxist thinking took over, clumping people into arbitrary groups, and women began to censor women. Radicals like Andrea Dworkin began to align themselves with social conservatives in an obvious effort to take control of women's lives. "Political Correctness" took on an Orwellian shade.

And I stopped seeing myself as a feminist.

Feminism had betrayed me, you see. It wasn't, and in many cases still isn't, about equality, about opportunity, or about freedom. It's about forcing every woman and every man into a delusional fantasy held by a group of power-hungry ideologues who are no different than John Ashcroft and his ilk in their efforts to put me into a burkha, physically and psychologically.

I want to be a feminist again. I want to live in a world where women and men care about each other and support each other and respect each other as unique individuals with talents and frailties like all humans have, which were the ideals of early feminism.

It's a pity so many feminists only give these things lip-service now.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

We all start at home. First of all, everyone must make up their own minds what feminism means to them.

Can I wear lipstick?
Should I shave my legs?
Is it wrong to wear a short skirt?
Is it wrong to be a housewife?
Can a soccermum be a feminist?
Can a career woman wear a push-up bra?
Why am I on a diet?
Will people think I'm a dyke if wear Prada loafers?
Is it acceptable to me that a woman makes 76 cents for each dollar a man makes?
Am I a horrible mother for leaving my kids at day-care center?
Is there a feministic value in a woman having one-night-stands?

Then get out there and start discussing with other women and men.

 

[BohemianEcstasy]

You make an excellent point, Svenskaflicka, and I think that those questions are some of the same ones that divide the 2nd wave from the 3rd wave and the 3rd wave from itself. I mean, many feminists can't agree on answers for such things and it has a tendancy to divide the movement. Same with "reproductive rights" in the US sense of the term--many women who are morally opposed to abortion and such feel that they can't ally themselves with the feminist establishment because of the overwhelming focus these days on a woman's "right" to abort.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I think we could sum up feminism in it being for women's rights AND possibilities to do whatever they want.

 

[Black Tulip]

What book turned you onto feminism or into a feminist (however you define the term)? If not a book, what?

Perdita

I come from a mixed background where my mother was desperately trying to make me into a nice girl, whereas my father and two brothers couldn't care less. In fact I think my father was more liberated than my mother.

On my mother's word I did not go to university "because I would marry anyway" and slaving away at a job I hated, I found myself falling into the feminist movement, early 70's. After I had blown my chance at marriage. LOL

Soon the movement turned into a very militant bunch of lesbians where it was not safe to say you actually liked men. That's when I stopped calling myself a feminist.
KarenAM said it all.

With regard to books: I don't remember the title, but it was an American research about why fairy tales depicted so few women as leading characters. I loved it, all those bold and courageous girls that were found in folk tales all over the world who never made it into the big books for boys and girls.

Something else: the reason I started writing stories was the lack of sf-stories with female hero's.

 

[SummerMorning]

No sf stories with female heroes? What about Alien?!? And there I thought Ripley was female...

...sigh...back to the drawing board I guess...

<--actually a tulip

 

[sweetnpetite]

This would make an absolutely awsome thread

(NOt because they don't belong here, they do- but because they deserve to be the center of attention on a thread of their own.)


All very good topics for discussion/thought.

Love,
Sweet.

We all start at home. First of all, everyone must make up their own minds what feminism means to them.

Can I wear lipstick?
Should I shave my legs?
Is it wrong to wear a short skirt?
Is it wrong to be a housewife?
Can a soccermum be a feminist?
Can a career woman wear a push-up bra?
Why am I on a diet?
Will people think I'm a dyke if wear Prada loafers?
Is it acceptable to me that a woman makes 76 cents for each dollar a man makes?
Am I a horrible mother for leaving my kids at day-care center?
Is there a feministic value in a woman having one-night-stands?

Then get out there and start discussing with other women and men.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Does anyone remember in Dirty Dancing when Baby said, "It didn't occur to me to mind"?

I would have to say the same thing about feminism- It didn't occur to me.

Most of my growing up occured with my sister and my mom. I think *not* having guys in the family is part of what ultimatly did it. I never really got the memo- boys do this and girls do that. Well, ok, for some reason my dad didn't like us to play with toy cars (my mother told us this) but he didn't comment or stop us- he just sort of growled disaprovingly under his breath and we did it anyway. If my (half) brothers were treated any differently, we attributed it to the fact that they had a different household. Actually, some of my dads sexist attitudes seemed to loosen up *some* as my brothers did have some 'stuffed animal' syled dolls, although certainly no Barbies.

Many of my friends were boys, although I also had friends who were girls- basicly whoever was a kid and was a neighbor. I remember one neigbor boy who told me that pink was a girls color and blue was a boys color. I thought he was making it up! We also wore striped socks, which he informed me were 'boys' socks. I mean I did know that girls wore dresses and boys didn't- but beyond that- what the heck where *boy socks*???

My mother is not really that much of a feminist, to tell the truth. I doubt she would classify herself that way. I think she encouraged us that we could be anything we wanted (She says I wanted to be the first female president of the United States) But I still remember her saying, "You better marry a rich man" whenever I expressed wanting whatever life of luxory I desired. I always answered "Why do I have to marry a rich man? I'll just be rich myself!" She always agreed, so who knows, maybe she was just testing me.

The first 'feminist' thing I remember reading that really inflamed me was "Smile Like a Plastic Daisy"

(A high school senior, concerned about the fight for women's rights, finds herself suspended from school and the focus of community debate following a confrontation at a swim meet during which she removed her shirt.)


Reviewer: moon_willow from Lansing, Mi United States
I read this book years and years ago. I was in elementary or middle school and I picked it up from the school library because it had an unusual name- no joke!
"Smile like a plastic daisy, what the heck does that mean?" I thought that day.

The story carried me away. I didn't read it for 'feminist theory' or anything like that (I think I was 11) I read it because I enjoyed the story. But yes, the theme of the gender double standard definatley struck a cord and stayed with me. In adition, the idea of kids being activists and standing up for their beliefs where also empowering ideals imparted by this book.

This is probably the first book that I ever read that was political in any way, and nearly 20 years later, I remember that book, and I understand what it means- and even what it feels like to 'Smile like a plastic daisy.'

I would recomend this book because it was a great story and it was thought provoking. It's been a long time since I read it, and I would love to read it again. Maybe then, I'll come back and tell you all a little bit more about it.

Five stars!

(from Amazon.com)




And there was this other book about a girl who played tennis so well she got to be on the boys team at her school. (If anyone knows what that was called, please let me know) I remember someone telling her that growing up meant to stop expecting life to be fair (she was always saying "that's not fair") -which I now disagree with to a certain extent (I think it's silencing and anti-empowering, but I digress) and she became engaged (or was it her sister) and the guy assumed that she would follow him in his career and sacrifice her own and there was a big fight about it.

These days just about everything I read or come accross confirms by beliefs, in paticular my feminist beliefs. I read this pole where a certain percentage of corporate wives felt they where 'equal partners' with there husbands- and a drastically lower number of the men felt the same! I thought 'what the heck!' These couples aren't even on the same wavelength. Here the women are thinking- just taking for granted that their husbands consider them equal partners and they don't! Wow! That was eye-opening for me.

I've been accused of mysandry (sp?) and I will admit that I probably at least border on it- and I'm working on it to some extent. But I don't think that's what feminism is about. I'm not really a mysandrist(??) because I'm a feminist- it's more because I'm jaded for my young age (29) and I refuse to be the nieve housewife who thinks when hubby sais 'sure, we're partners' that he means 'equal'- so I tend to err on the side of sceptical when it comes to men.

 

[sweetnpetite]

bump

what happened?

I didn't mean to kill the thread. Someone please, say something!!!

 

[Svenskaflicka]

It's 2004. And STILL women do more chores around the house than men. And WHEN men do somehting in the house, it's called "helping" - as if they're kind enough to help the little missus with HER chores, instead of doing their part.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

It's 2004. And STILL women do more chores around the house than men. And WHEN men do somehting in the house, it's called "helping" - as if they're kind enough to help the little missus with HER chores, instead of doing their part.

Do we really think things will change?

 

[rgraham666]

Ladies, if you really want to get your guy to help around the house, get him a job as a janitor.

Since I became a custodial engineer, it's become very difficuly to walk past the messes my housemates make.

I still do it, but now it's difficult.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Ladies, if you really want to get your guy to help around the house, get him a job as a janitor.

Since I became a custodial engineer, it's become very difficuly to walk past the messes my housemates make.

I still do it, but now it's difficult.

Do you hire out?????

 

[Party Girl]

My dad ... 'cause he's the coolest feminist I know.

Mom kept her last name when they got married, and when people ask about it (like, "Why on earth wouldn't you take your husband's last name? That's the normal way.") he doesn't get all macho ("Well, it's because I let her ... blah blah blah"). He just kinda does this "duh" smile and says, "Actually, my wife let me keep my last name when we got married. She's so good to me."

It's not a huge thing, from an outsider's point of view, but it's the first time I remember anyone mentioning (and believing) that women can be independant, or can be a separate entity.

Hm. I'm not sure that's entirely understandable, lol.

 

[rgraham666]

Do you hire out?????

It depends. What are you offering?

 

[ABSTRUSE]

My dad ... 'cause he's the coolest feminist I know.

Mom kept her last name when they got married, and when people ask about it (like, "Why on earth wouldn't you take your husband's last name? That's the normal way.") he doesn't get all macho ("Well, it's because I let her ... blah blah blah"). He just kinda does this "duh" smile and says, "Actually, my wife let me keep my last name when we got married. She's so good to me."

It's not a huge thing, from an outsider's point of view, but it's the first time I remember anyone mentioning (and believing) that women can be independant, or can be a separate entity.

Hm. I'm not sure that's entirely understandable, lol.

Cool, but do you have your father's or your mother's last name?

 

[RenzaJones]

I think my father created the will to be a feminist that I have. Not because he supported the notion that women were equal to men but because he vehemntly denied it. My attitude became I'll show you and everyone like you that you're wrong.

 

[BohemianEcstasy]

Cool, but do you have your father's or your mother's last name?

I'm interested to know the answer to this one, as well. My Women's Studies professor made an agreement with her husband before kids were concieved that girls would get her name, boys would get his, and that worked. Except she hasn't had any girls yet (two boys) so the theory may never get tested! I would consider that sad.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

I'm interested to know the answer to this one, as well. My Women's Studies professor made an agreement with her husband before kids were concieved that girls would get her name, boys would get his, and that worked. Except she hasn't had any girls yet (two boys) so the theory may never get tested! I would consider that sad.

I'd like this idea if it were the other way around. My Dad had two girls and there's really no chance for a namesake other than my sister and I. Would be interesting for geneology sake.

~lucky

 

[Black Tulip]

About the names: Dutch law was changed recently so kids can have the name of the mother or the father. It's become a choice, no matter if you're married or not. (If the father acknowledges the child of course.) I think that is a step in the right direction.

 

[oggbashan]

Names

My youngest daughter has kept her surname after marriage as her professional name because it is shorter and distinctive. She will be a doctor so a short memorable name is useful.

My second daughter will also keep her surname after marriage later this year because she is already established in her profession and 'a short memorable name is useful'.

Both are quite relaxed about the idea of being called "Mrs (husband's surname)" in social contacts.

One of my nieces married two years ago. He took HER surname because his surname was long, clumsy and combined with his first name was unfortunate. Now if HIS father had taken his wife's maiden name... but that was too long ago. Such things were not done, then.

I didn't influence any of their decisions. As a younger son of a younger son with nephews (and a now a niece and her husband) to continue the family name I wasn't bothered about surnames. There are too many relations already. (400 at last count. 350 turned up for my parent's Golden Wedding anniversary party). They had a separate party for friends - only 200+.

Og

 

[catalina_francisco]

The reason why people don't like the word "feminist" today, is because media has been ridiculing the word, and showing off the extremists instead of focusing on the agenda.
I've told the horrible tale on another thread, about a girl of 19 who told me that she didn't like feminism, she wanted equality! When the original message has been twisted so much that young women can't even name the colour of an orange, that's when the patriarchal system is smiling smugly.

Feminism is about equal rights, not payback. And equality - which shouldn't be confused with merely equal rights - makes both men and women independent.
But just as my ex (from Ghana) refused to call himself African-African or Coloured or anything like that, but proudly said "I'm black", I won't try to sugar-coat my ideals by calling myself something that I really am not, not yet. I'm not an independent woman, no matter how much I struggle to be, but I sure as hell am a FEMINIST!

Have to agree. It would be a dream to believe that women can do anything a man can do, can be independent, etc., but the reality is we still do live in a largely male dominated system which does not make it possible in all arenas just yet. There are still careers, such as law in Australia, where a woman gets substantially less money than her male counterpart for doing the exact same job for the exact same hours. There is the reality that biologically a woman gives birth and we have not found a way to transfer it to both sexes, so her career and income are going to be interrupted and affected if she chooses parenthood as an addition to her life. And independence is a lovely ideal, but not something any of us of either gender can claim in every sphere anymore.

Though the leaders in the gay movement looked to the feminist sector in the beginning for how to fight the established oppressions successfully, the media has continued to highlight feminism in a negative light...is it surprising given the media is one of the most powerful, male dominated institutions in the western world? It serves a greater purpose to denigrate than to appreciate and support.

The one thing I find the most disturbing about many of the feminists who are in positions to be heard in this era, is the total disregard for the original intent of the philosophy to not only create equlaity for women, but to give women the right to choose what is right for them. It has always been a message about responsibility, non judgementalism, and freedom to choose what fits the woman in her life. What I find is some women (some feminists) are now telling other women how they should live their life, how to raise their children, whether to be a stay at home mum or work, if they should like sex or not, if they are right to dress sexy and wear make-up or not, if it is right to marry or not and if they do whether they are right to take their husband's name or keep their own. It is not feminism in essence at all and I find it offensive to say the least when another woman tries to tell me how I should model my choices in life based on what she sees as the right way. It is just exchanging patriarchial rule for matriarchial judgement.

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