How many of the 10 types are here?

[yowser]

One of the positives of this site is the size of the reader community and its diversity. Some people want to read strokers. Some people want to read explicit romances. Some people want to read emotional stories that have minimal sex. We each have our own kinks. So do our readers. One is not better than the others. (I and many others have preferences and distastes but in the global picture, those don't matter).

Nicely said. I also like the fact that it's 'open mic' night. With a minimal bar to language, anyone can tell their tale, even if it's only marginally polished,

Even better is seeing a new author evolve.

 

[ADirtyPerv]

I think a common form here, and to me the most annoying, is our own flavors of genre elitist. Some who see no need for anything beyond their own category -- I find incest and LW authors to do this more than any other.

As others have said above, I've had the opposite experience here at the AH. There are so many mentions of incest as, like, lower forms of writing, or something, done because it's easy. You yourself frequently use the phrase "hold your nose".

(I get that it gives some people the squick, that's fine. No complaints there.)

But I really enjoy writing T/I, and it's been a little alienating to join this forum and be told by all the apparent big guys around here that what I write is trash. It took a minute to realize you weren't talking about all of T/I, or what I write, necessarily. Going off the example you wrote, "Santa's Lap", that's really just a stroker. I can see where you're coming from about that kind of thing being a little... Artless. Squicky, if you're not into it. But that's not the only thing in that section, at all.

I write romances, but with the wrong people. I really thought y'all were being elitist AF when I first got here, as if what I write was lesser because of the content. I figured out the nuance, but not before I thought about abandoning this place a few times.

 

[Comshaw]

She didn't say they weren't talented writers, just that they are difficult to interact with, and they are when they are at these extremes.

1 & 2 are especially difficult to interact with as an author because they make you doubt your own ability to a point they can get you to stop writing. It can also be difficult to watch these types get their first cold dose of reality handed to them and crumble under pressure, because then what type of shot do you have?

Some of my favorite people fit these types in one way or another, it's not a diss on them, it's looking at their flaws and accepting them as a part of who they are.

The only issue that arises is when an author slides so far into the caricature "type" that they willfully ignore and vehemently denounce the idea that they could maybe, possibly be wrong about their stance within the type.

That and when one sees a mirror for the first time, they tend to not like the reflection cast back at them. Sometimes we need a reality check to remind us to be aware of our own flaws and maybe work on our sensitivity around those flaws. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging your own shortcomings as either a writer or a person.

"Yes, I'm reactive to criticism and should probably sit with that a bit to figure out what's at the root of that issue so I can be more open to the opinions and thoughts of others rather than taking them as a personal attack."

"Yeah, my expectations for myself and my work are likely going to result in severe disappointment and a deep depression when I actually put myself out there and the reaction isn't what I expected it to be. Perhaps I should consider the possibility that my work might be flawed in a way that I'm too close to see at the moment, just to temper my expectations so I don't crash out if I'm wrong."

"Oh, yeah, I do kinda do that, but it works for me, so whatever."

"Ooh, that's my friend to a T! I should prepare for the crash that's about to come for them and figure out how to be supportive and encouraging."

"Hah, that sounds just like my friend, they'll get a kick out of this list when they see themselves and laugh at what a dick they've been unintentionally."

Would all be valid reflections upon hearing this list.

A writer can have extremely refined talent and/or skill and still be an insufferable twat to be around because they hit one of these extremes and refuse to acknowledge any such flaw within themselves or their approach. Those aren't mutually exclusive.

Also, these are only an issue when these types attack other writers who aren't in their same category, particularly if those writers call out bad behavior for that person and the person refuses to acknowledge it as a problem by lashing out instead. This is especially true with 1, 2 & 10, as each of these types are capable of inflicting significant damage on other writers.

It's the same with the reader list. On its surface, it's meant to display an extreme side of things where the readership becomes somewhat toxic to be around.

I've had an experience with the "mentor" reader type that went from pleasant to deeply uncomfortable and somewhat scary right here in the AH shortly after I first joined Lit. The conversation went from pleasant skill sharing from an established writer to one just starting out and quickly turned into attacks on my abilities as a writer simply because I wouldn't do sexual roleplay with them. I would also argue that this is actually more of a problematic writer type than a reader type, as this makes the exchange predatory (I am established and know what I'm doing, you need me) rather than opportunistic (I know what readers are looking for, you could use my help to get ahead.)

But that was just what I took from the videos.

The only thing I can add to that is: Bravo! Well put and well done.

What do we say here all the time about writing as far as good/bad liked it/didn't? Its subjective. You and I read the same story and we could have very different opinions on said story. Which one of us is right? We both are because we're speaking for ourselves.

That's what we have here. How do you interpret the video? True, a valid warning that these are some of the types you'll deal with over time, parody? Insulting, helpful?

It means what you feel it means to you and some might feel the same way, some don't and none of you are wrong.

But just like what we deal with all the time in an increasingly triggered and sensitive society, someone should not be afraid to post something simply because no matter what it is someone is going to take it the wrong way and the answer isn't to say "That has no right here" the answer is you didn't like it, and that's fine, but others are getting something out of it.

I'm a proponent of the "I'm leaving this on your doorstep, enjoy it or throw it out, its up to you."

While she targets authors specifically, this isn't just about them. It's a lesson about people in general. She presented it as humor, but many times a joke carries a sharp hidden point. Comedians have done so for ages. George Carlin is one of the best examples of that.

For me the most interesting thing is the reaction to it. Mine? First, a laugh, because I see it in some of those around me. And then that sharp point pops out and pokes me, "Are any of those me?" Which leads to an inevitable meander through my own head (I wouldn't recommend anyone else try a walk through the morass of my head though) and the conclusion that, "Aw damn it! That one and that one and maybe that one! Damn it!" Self-enlightenment sometimes feels like someone bit me on the ass.

The ones I feel sorry for are those who laugh at this because they only see these things in people around them without ever questioning whether or not it's truly a reflection.


Comshaw

 

[pink_silk_glove]

But I can't count the number of times I've been told by T/I writers in this forum that romance stories are garbage and don't belong here.

The majority of romance stories here are garbage but I would never say that they don't belong here.

 

[old_prof]

As others have said above, I've had the opposite experience here at the AH. There are so many mentions of incest as, like, lower forms of writing, or something, done because it's easy. You yourself frequently use the phrase "hold your nose".

(I get that it gives some people the squick, that's fine. No complaints there.)

But I really enjoy writing T/I, and it's been a little alienating to join this forum and be told by all the apparent big guys around here that what I write is trash. It took a minute to realize you weren't talking about all of T/I, or what I write, necessarily. Going off the example you wrote, "Santa's Lap", that's really just a stroker. I can see where you're coming from about that kind of thing being a little... Artless. Squicky, if you're not into it. But that's not the only thing in that section, at all.

I write romances, but with the wrong people. I really thought y'all were being elitist AF when I first got here, as if what I write was lesser because of the content. I figured out the nuance, but not before I thought about abandoning this place a few times.

I don't doubt that T/I and LW writers feel looked down upon. I think that's where the lashing out at romances comes from.

While I do write romances, they've only been a little over 10 percent of my stories here (I think 6 out of 50). But I'm definitely leaning in that direction now.

I actually have more problems with people claiming that stories have to have a certain amount of sex in them than anything else. And I stand by my observation that incest and LW writers (I understand they are largely independent groups and do not necessarily like each other either) do this the most. I made that observation before I ever started writing anything in the romance-y space here, so it wasn't feeling personally attacked at that point. (My original series had no lack of sex, that's for sure.) I saw a lot of the same dynamics in the discussions about strokers early in the summer.

I just want everyone to accept everyone else's writing. And understand that getting 100K views in one category may not be any more significant than getting 2K in another category. I have no problem with people choosing a category for what it yields, be that views, rating, comments or favorites, but be honest about what you're doing. And don't bad mouth people for choosing to write in a backwater category.

 

[old_prof]

The majority of romance stories here are garbage but I would never say that they don't belong here.

The majority of all stories here are garbage (to some extent). To my tastes, which may not be anyone else's, Romance has a better overall quality than most categories. I think LS has the best overall writing, but there is crap in every category. And well written pieces.

 

[MillieDynamite]

The writing group, which met once a month in a physical location, now meets online every other month, damn. As I started to say, when we met in person, we had the non-writer who talked about their mythical book guy in our group. He always said, "Then, I have the guy and girl get angry at each other," or "I'm going to have a massive fight between the antagonist and MC in chapter 4 that'll foreshadow the massive fight at the end of the book." Never once brought a sample of his writing. The talking about was enough to get the story out of his head, so he never had anything he could write.

I could give his name, since he's never been published and won't be, but I'm not a girl who gets bored out of her guard and then tells.

Edit: mixed tense fixed at least in part.

 

[crookedletter]

Sturgeon's Law, everyone: 90% of everything is crap.

 

[ADirtyPerv]

I don't doubt that T/I and LW writers feel looked down upon. I think that's where the lashing out at romances comes from.

While I do write romances, they've only been a little over 10 percent of my stories here (I think 6 out of 50). But I'm definitely leaning in that direction now.

I actually have more problems with people claiming that stories have to have a certain amount of sex in them than anything else. And I stand by my observation that incest and LW writers (I understand they are largely independent groups and do not necessarily like each other either) do this the most. I made that observation before I ever started writing anything in the romance-y space here, so it wasn't feeling personally attacked at that point. (My original series had no lack of sex, that's for sure.) I saw a lot of the same dynamics in the discussions about strokers early in the summer.

I just want everyone to accept everyone else's writing. And understand that getting 100K views in one category may not be any more significant than getting 2K in another category. I have no problem with people choosing a category for what it yields, be that views, rating, comments or favorites, but be honest about what you're doing. And don't bad mouth people for choosing to write in a backwater category.

Oh yeah absolutely not. I would never denigrate another person's work based on the category, or backwater-ness. And most of my stories have a single sex scene in 20k words, so I'm with you on that piece. I don't think writing should be gatekept at all.

Comments about what should and should not be on here are stupid. There's a non-erotic section, so literally any writing can be on here. If you don't like it, move on. Easy peasy. (If only LW readers could figure that part out)

But now I need to write one with a very slow burn that ends with a single kiss, just to see if I can draw out the shitty T/I readers. No sex for you!

 

[MillieDynamite]

What's caviar got to do with this? LOL

Sturgeon's Law, everyone: 90% of everything is crap.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

One year a dozen of us were doing Comic con together six tables, you shared a table with another author so only paid half, and we got a discounted rate. I initially signed on, then saw some of the other people I'd be forced to spend and entire weekend with and backed out. I got my own table and paid full price, but well worth it. I'd have lost my mind sitting in the middle of that group.

Better off anyway, because I'm sure you've done similar things and if you're not one of the people at a table that's first up when shoppers come around the corner, odds are people spend their money before they get to you.

For the second year, I'll be doing an event at our local library next month dedicated to authors from our state. Most are amateur and self-published, which in itself is fine, but many act like they have been on the Times best-seller list for decades.

It irritates many that I am taller than them since it makes looking down their nose at me so challenging for them. Then when they see my tradpub books, they suddenly are my best friend, seeking advice and asking for introductions to my agent or publisher.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

The majority of all stories here are garbage (to some extent). To my tastes, which may not be anyone else's, Romance has a better overall quality than most categories. I think LS has the best overall writing, but there is crap in every category. And well written pieces.

You're right about the overall quality, but I would say that Romance actually has some of the absolute worst writing on lit. It ranks among the lowest quality writing of all categories. It certainly has the most mail-in template stories of any category and collects the most easy high scores.

 

[MillieDynamite]

The problem with being a ghostwriter is that I write for several of the 10 worst types of writers. Well, two of them are one who isn't in the worst category, but he does take credit and make money from my work and only gives me money in exchange. I can live with all that, though, as long as they pay me.

 

[CalBishForNow]

I don't doubt that T/I and LW writers feel looked down upon. I think that's where the lashing out at romances comes from.

As a LW writer, I feel looked down upon by LW readers more than anyone here in the AH.

I actually have more problems with people claiming that stories have to have a certain amount of sex in them than anything else.

Personally, I would never write anything without any erotic content in it at all here because I'm saving my non-erotic writing for stuff I can actually show my friends, family, and maybe someday try to get published in a money-making way. If someone else wants to write something like that here, more power to them.

 

[Rob_Royale]

I see little bits of myself in a lot of those categories and I actively fight against being them, including the self promoter that @AwkwardlySet mentioned.
"Don't be a douche, Rob." I should have on a post it below my monitor. I try. I really do.

 

[Erozetta]

As a LW writer, I feel looked down upon by LW readers more than anyone here in the AH.

Personally, I would never write anything without any erotic content in it at all here because I'm saving my non-erotic writing for stuff I can actually show my friends, family, and maybe someday try to get published in a money-making way. If someone else wants to write something like that here, more power to them.

I would do that precisely because I *don't* want my family and friends to read anything I write. Well... Family anyways, most of my current friends are from here.

 

[lovecraft68]

While she targets authors specifically, this isn't just about them. It's a lesson about people in general. She presented it as humor, but many times a joke carries a sharp hidden point. Comedians have done so for ages. George Carlin is one of the best examples of that.

For me the most interesting thing is the reaction to it. Mine? First, a laugh, because I see it in some of those around me. And then that sharp point pops out and pokes me, "Are any of those me?" Which leads to an inevitable meander through my own head (I wouldn't recommend anyone else try a walk through the morass of my head though) and the conclusion that, "Aw damn it! That one and that one and maybe that one! Damn it!" Self-enlightenment sometimes feels like someone bit me on the ass.

The ones I feel sorry for are those who laugh at this because they only see these things in people around them without ever questioning whether or not it's truly a reflection.


Comshaw

I think what you took from this is exactly what I did. This is more than 'writer types' because each type in anything is that way based on other traits or pretty much their core person

She is funny in her delivery but with a tone of "Yes, this is real" beneath it.

Lastly, this is certainly a hold the mirror up type piece that should at worst lead to some self reflection as sometimes people don't realize how they come across.

As for Carlin, little story.

One of my first dates with my wife I took her to see him in Providence and she'd heard of him, but never listened or watched his material. Show was amazing and afterwards she said "He was funny as hell, but there's a lot of food for thought mixed into all those jokes,"

That is the best type of satire/comedy.

I think the lesson one can learn from something like this is the knee jerk reaction for some is "who the hell is she and no one should say anything bad" bad translated into "I don't like it."

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I see little bits of myself in a lot of those categories and I actively fight against being them, including the self promoter that @AwkwardlySet mentioned.
"Don't be a douche, Rob." I should have on a post it below my monitor. I try. I really do.

I see myself as a bit of an elitist in the sense of being dismissive towards short (less than 3k words or so) stories. But I've no illusions when it comes to my skill as a writer. Other than that, I don't preach about writing, only about forum behavior. In that sense, I'm contrary in general, especially when I smell conformism. Too bad there's no number for that.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

You're right about the overall quality, but I would say that Romance actually has some of the absolute worst writing on lit. It ranks among the lowest quality writing of all categories. It certainly has the most mail-in template stories of any category and collects the most easy high scores.

I think it's common among us to have strong opinions about categories we read often and know well. There are like 5-6 categories I can say I know decently well, and while I think LS and Fantasy&SF are of decent quality in general, I think BDSM and Fetish are utter garbage on average.

But it's hard to compare to the other categories, as I can't say I know them beyond what other AHers say about them. It could be that you're overly harsh towards the formulaicness of Romance stories only because you probably have no idea how bad some others can get. Just saying in general, as I believe we're all prone to falling into that trap.
I also admit to having zero clue about the Romance category beyond what people say here.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

The majority of all stories here are garbage (to some extent). To my tastes, which may not be anyone else's, Romance has a better overall quality than most categories. I think LS has the best overall writing, but there is crap in every category. And well written pieces.

Personally, I find the better quality stories in Novels/Novellas. Maybe it is the greater investment in the longer story content that tends to impact things like character development, more consistency/continuity throughout the story, fewer issues with the tense changing, and SPAG.

 

[old_prof]

Personally, I find the better quality stories in Novels/Novellas. Maybe it is the greater investment in the longer story content that tends to impact things like character development, more consistency/continuity throughout the story, fewer issues with the tense changing, and SPAG.

N&N is certainly in the running for best writing overall in my mind.

 

[lovecraft68]

Don't look now but this conversation is heading into "#1" territory with "But this genre is garbage."

Just saying.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Don't look now but this conversation is heading into "#1" territory with "But this genre is garbage."

Just saying.

I wouldn't call any particular genre "garbage", but I do think the on a whole, certain categories do tend to foster better quality writing, meaning that the stories are more technically proficient and demonstrate a higher standard of production. Objective assessment rather than subjective.

That's not to imply or categorically state that other genres don't have quality stories, just that the likelihood of finding one is higher in some categories than others. There is no condemnation of the content in any genre, just the literary skills in which the content is produced seems more lacking in some versus others.

 

[anthrodisiac]

I wouldn't call any particular genre "garbage", but I do think the on a whole, certain categories do tend to foster better quality writing, meaning that the stories are more technically proficient and demonstrate a higher standard of production. Objective assessment rather than subjective.

That's not to imply or categorically state that other genres don't have quality stories, just that the likelihood of finding one is higher in some categories than others. There is no condemnation of the content in any genre, just the literary skills in which the content is produced seems more lacking in some versus others.

I imagine some categories probably lean more toward, "I want to write something people get off to," than, "I want to tell an actual story."

I wouldn't be surprised if it's also because some categories are probably less intimidating to write in for newer writers. Writing a Sci-Fi & Fantasy work can involve more work than a straightforward "two people fuck," just by dint of having to describe the elements that make it SF&F rather than a generic modern hookup setting.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Oh, my God, Tilan is still here. The block works.

If he is, then I ain't seen him. I've only ever blocked one person, I typically don't block.