How Much "Fantasy" Do You Use?

[YmaOHyd]

I took that simply as a phrase contrasting absurdity in plot with absurdity in sex scenes. The OP's initial thought was about how some writers add contrivances to their plots to facilitate more of the sex they want; TWG was asking, I thought, about how that differed from adding contrivances to the sex scenes specifically to get more of them.

I don't know why it's different, but I do react differently to them. For example, let's take a story about an average guy -- has a decent job, good dude, responsible, all that stuff, but basically a young man who behaves like a typical normal young man. And he has a girlfriend who he has sex with all the time. In that story, it's going to bother me way more when his girlfriend starts pimping him out to her sisters than it does when he turns out to be able to orgasm four times a night, every night for weeks on end, even though the end result is just that the writer gets to do more vanilla-y MF sex scenes.

I'm sure on an Earth with one billion people, much less eight, there's a girl who's going to let her boyfriend have sex with her sisters, and I'm sure there's a guy who can have four giant facial-tastic orgasms every day between 6PM and midnight. But the first one showing up is going to seem like a silly plot twist to me and the second just kinda the cost of doing business in erotica.

 

[Ssbbw4u1974]

Some of what I write is based on fantasy.. Some stories I've written are based on acts of sex I've done IRL.
I've been in threesomes, but not mmf, but I want to be in a mmf so writing about it excites me.

 

[Wifetheif]

Sometimes the imagination is all you have. This was especially true in the early days of publising the following is from the May 1936 issue of the pulp magazine, "The Spider.". They don't write them like this any more! A yellow peril novel. that could only have been written in the 1930s, an Asian baddie called the Dragon is abducting, young white American women to spirit them to the Orient to live lives of white slaves combined with breeding stock. There is a TON of racism in this novel. Remembering the times it was written in however, goes a long way towards enjoying it and I did. At one point the Chinese kidnap Nita van Sloan, the Spider's main squeeze and chestnut-haired najor babe. Note how Norvell Page writes around the censorship of his day and informs the astute reader that Nita was strip searched without mentioning a single garment coming off.

“Nita smiled faintly at the impossibility of such a feat. She had passed through the double fences now, men with whips beating back the dogs as she crossed, and was thrust into one of the barracks. She was searched there with a thoroughness that brought the shamed blood hot to her cheeks, then allowed to walk untended ito the dormitory”
Sometimes less is MORE!

 

[FidelityBoss]

I don't like a lot of "fantasy" as a writer. Meaning, I don't want the erotic core of the thing to totally take over the entire setting and all of its characters and just make it all one big unified whole with no conflicts or problems or enemies and adversaries to the good light thing that I'm encouraging in the stories. I hope that makes sense. For example, if I have a character who's a poor white man and blames it on immigrants when it's actually his boss's fault, and then he becomes a cuckold to his wife who's having sex with an immigrant, I wouldn't want the immigrants to also then fuck his boss's wife. I would want to portray the boss as the actual opposing force to both his prosperity and his cuckoldry, for example by making the boss even more racist and prudish and misogynistic. I find the opposite oftentimes happens and there's a temptation there to do that kind of thing on this site because (within site guidelines) anything goes and slathering on more of the specific "kink" for lack of a better term that you have on offer in the story will probably get your story more praise and attention, even if that means sacrificing either the integrity to the original idea for the story or the quality of its writing, which in my opinion go hand in hand anyway. I think this is how you get "black man fucks the whole family" stories and shit like this coming out on here.

It's my opinion that a lot of the stories on this site do this sacrificial deal with the devil (the market) so to speak–I'm not interested in idle chatter that justifies that state of affairs, by the way, so please don't tell me "that's just the way it is and we can't do nuffin about it"–and I find that phenomenon fascinating to see exactly how it got this way. I say all this to say I have a reason for not allowing "fantasy" to take over the story, and that's because the ideas do not want to be stereotypical or unrealistic beyond the boundaries that they set for themselves. There's a certain self-constructed standard that unfolds in my ideas for stories that I do not want to violate for fear of ruining the idea. I would rather polish and nourish what it is they want to be rather than try and force changes upon them in the writing that would affect the authenticity and quality of the piece. I think if you have so much sexual fantasy guiding the writing, it drags the actual story you write away from the original idea you had. What about you?

You’ve got a really strong point about keeping the story’s integrity intact instead of letting the fantasy or kink take over completely. It’s easy to fall into the trap of piling on more of what gets clicks or praise, but that often waters down the original idea and makes the story feel less authentic. Staying true to the core conflict and characters, like your example with the boss as the real antagonist, keeps the narrative grounded and meaningful.

I think balancing fantasy with realism (or at least internal consistency) is key. If the story feels forced just to cater to a specific audience, it loses its soul. Writing should be about exploring ideas, not just ticking boxes.

 

[FidelityBoss]

Sometimes the imagination is all you have. This was especially true in the early days of publising the following is from the May 1936 issue of the pulp magazine, "The Spider.". They don't write them like this any more! A yellow peril novel. that could only have been written in the 1930s, an Asian baddie called the Dragon is abducting, young white American women to spirit them to the Orient to live lives of white slaves combined with breeding stock. There is a TON of racism in this novel. Remembering the times it was written in however, goes a long way towards enjoying it and I did. At one point the Chinese kidnap Nita van Sloan, the Spider's main squeeze and chestnut-haired najor babe. Note how Norvell Page writes around the censorship of his day and informs the astute reader that Nita was strip searched without mentioning a single garment coming off.

“Nita smiled faintly at the impossibility of such a feat. She had passed through the double fences now, men with whips beating back the dogs as she crossed, and was thrust into one of the barracks. She was searched there with a thoroughness that brought the shamed blood hot to her cheeks, then allowed to walk untended ito the dormitory”
Sometimes less is MORE!

It’s wild how much context matters too; reading stuff like that today, you can’t ignore the racism, but understanding the era helps put it in perspective. And you’re right, sometimes less is more, leaving things unsaid can make a scene way more powerful. Classic pulp writing at its finest!

A few more thoughts.

A major consideration is the length of the story. If it's a short story, you can only take so much time explaining the magic. It's OK to get to the point. After all, Kafka's story Metamorphosis begins with Gregor Samsa turning into an insect at the beginning of the story, with no explanation.

I have two general personal guidelines when it comes to magic in a story.

Number one, do SOMETHING to get the reader through the magic, even if it's very brief. Offer something, anything, to suspend disbelief. I personally don't need much, as a reader. I like fantasy.

Number two, don't do TOO MUCH magic. Usually one bit of a magic per story, in a short story, is fine, and two bits of magic or more make me feel like I'm being manipulated. I can accept almost any ONE piece of magic, artfully done, but I don't like having too much magic thrown at me.

Great points! Keeping magic simple and focused in short stories is key, Kafka’s Metamorphosis is a perfect example of diving right in without over-explaining. One magical element, done well, can carry a story, but piling on too much can feel overwhelming or gimmicky. A little goes a long way when it comes to suspending disbelief. Less is often more!

 

[madelinemasoch]

You’ve got a really strong point about keeping the story’s integrity intact instead of letting the fantasy or kink take over completely. It’s easy to fall into the trap of piling on more of what gets clicks or praise, but that often waters down the original idea and makes the story feel less authentic. Staying true to the core conflict and characters, like your example with the boss as the real antagonist, keeps the narrative grounded and meaningful.

I think balancing fantasy with realism (or at least internal consistency) is key. If the story feels forced just to cater to a specific audience, it loses its soul. Writing should be about exploring ideas, not just ticking boxes.

Thanks. You really grasp what I said.

 

[Wifetheif]

It’s wild how much context matters too; reading stuff like that today, you can’t ignore the racism, but understanding the era helps put it in perspective. And you’re right, sometimes less is more, leaving things unsaid can make a scene way more powerful. Classic pulp writing at its finest!

Great points! Keeping magic simple and focused in short stories is key, Kafka’s Metamorphosis is a perfect example of diving right in without over-explaining. One magical element, done well, can carry a story, but piling on too much can feel overwhelming or gimmicky. A little goes a long way when it comes to suspending disbelief. Less is often more!

Norvel Page who wrote "The Spider" subjected Nita Van Sloan the Spider's main squeeze to a ton of nastiness. In this novel, he goes up against another Asian villain. In the first chapter she is kidnapped In the penultimate chapter she reappears;
“Look Spider”

Slowly Wentworth’s head came up again, heavily swung to the parted curtains. A shudder swept over him. Beyond that curtain were two small alcoves whose fronts were steel bars. Soft Yellow light flooded those cells. In one, a huge furry animal squatted like a man on the floor. It lifted its head and evil red eyes gleamed, lips snarled back from yellow fangs. The beast straightened, rising to its feet so that it stood with hunched formidable shoulders. Arboreal hands clutched the bars, and the fearful strength of the ting made them shake.

“An orangutan, the Mandarin explained softly. “He is easily as powerful as the gorilla and much more human. For instance, they have been known to carry off native women. The women die ultimately, of course, but in the meantime…”

Wentworth’s dull eyes had opened wide with incredulous staring. In the other cell was – Good God! It was Nita! Nita was standing, gripping the bars also. Her lovely body was nearly nude, clad in the filmy garments of a woman of the seraglio. Upon her body, a little jacket that was open its full length barely covers her exquisite breasts. Low on her hips was girdle with a jeweled clasp from it depended a silken skirt of such extraordinary weave that it scarcely seemed to exist. It enhanced the subtle curve of her hips, glorified the shapely white columns of her limbs. The glorious chestnut hair hung to her shoulders, and the yellow lights made fiery gleams among its curls. But on her face was such a mingling of joy and pain as would tear the heart. Her red lips were tremulous. She reached supplicant hands between the bars, her warm round arms petitioning.

Yes she was threaned with sexual assault by an orangutan! NO WAY could that scenario appear on L.com. Yet it was on newsstands in the 1930s. NONE of us could get this published on this site!

 

[FidelityBoss]

Norvel Page who wrote "The Spider" subjected Nita Van Sloan the Spider's main squeeze to a ton of nastiness. In this novel, he goes up against another Asian villain. In the first chapter she is kidnapped In the penultimate chapter she reappears;
“Look Spider”

Slowly Wentworth’s head came up again, heavily swung to the parted curtains. A shudder swept over him. Beyond that curtain were two small alcoves whose fronts were steel bars. Soft Yellow light flooded those cells. In one, a huge furry animal squatted like a man on the floor. It lifted its head and evil red eyes gleamed, lips snarled back from yellow fangs. The beast straightened, rising to its feet so that it stood with hunched formidable shoulders. Arboreal hands clutched the bars, and the fearful strength of the ting made them shake.

“An orangutan, the Mandarin explained softly. “He is easily as powerful as the gorilla and much more human. For instance, they have been known to carry off native women. The women die ultimately, of course, but in the meantime…”

Wentworth’s dull eyes had opened wide with incredulous staring. In the other cell was – Good God! It was Nita! Nita was standing, gripping the bars also. Her lovely body was nearly nude, clad in the filmy garments of a woman of the seraglio. Upon her body, a little jacket that was open its full length barely covers her exquisite breasts. Low on her hips was girdle with a jeweled clasp from it depended a silken skirt of such extraordinary weave that it scarcely seemed to exist. It enhanced the subtle curve of her hips, glorified the shapely white columns of her limbs. The glorious chestnut hair hung to her shoulders, and the yellow lights made fiery gleams among its curls. But on her face was such a mingling of joy and pain as would tear the heart. Her red lips were tremulous. She reached supplicant hands between the bars, her warm round arms petitioning.

Yes she was threaned with sexual assault by an orangutan! NO WAY could that scenario appear on L.com. Yet it was on newsstands in the 1930s. NONE of us could get this published on this site!

Wow, that’s definitely a wild and intense scene from a bygone era of pulp fiction! The 1930s pulps were known for their over-the-top, sensationalist storytelling, and this excerpt from The Spider is a prime example. It’s shocking by today’s standards, especially with its graphic and exploitative elements. Back then, these kinds of stories were meant to grab attention and sell copies, often pushing boundaries without much regard for sensitivity or realism. It’s fascinating how much storytelling norms have changed since then, what was once on newsstands would definitely raise eyebrows (or worse) today!

 

[FidelityBoss]

Thanks. You really grasp what I said.

You're welcome!