How Much "Fantasy" Do You Use?

[SinclairGroupLLP]

That, of course, requires time and a gradual progression of a relationship, which isn't the way most authors here write. Short stories that focus on a single sexual encounter, or even longer/chaptered stories where the specific relationship is already in place, that's what most of Literotica is about, as far as I have seen. In most stories, we start with the destination already in sight.

Man, there are times I wish I wasn’t so damn verbose because I would love to hear what you think about my stuff, lol.

I have always found that building the relationship in the story is part of the fun. The payoff when the character who was a villain becomes a good guy, two people who have no trust each other take a chance and stumble into love and more - those are my favorite stories and I guess that’s why they became such a common theme in my stuff.

 

[OralDave]

What exactly is the definition of "fantasy" as it's going to vary from one bunch of people to the next depending on what cultural and sexual tastes they have. I mean, Spiderman with a huge stiffy in his outfit and travelling on a London Bus wearing a sexy black latex skater dress and 6 inch heels in the company of two handsome men with a promise to come are two different things.

I'd like to see that.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I'm curious: what do "too much fantasy ruins my reading experience" people think of directly sexual nonsense, like "A sixty-year-old man has four orgasms in the same night"?

-Annie

Back to "it depends".

Everything one of these conversations comes up people seem to forget that the world is full of outliers.
Is it common for a 60 year old to be multi-orgasmic? Probably not. Is it possible? Absolutely.

Quite a few things people dismiss as "not realistic" really just means "outside my experience."
One of my friends had a BF who suffered from delayed ejaculation. It's a real medical condition, and as the name implies it's the opposite of premature ejaculation. According to her he could stay hard for 30 or 40 minutes without orgasming.
If I wrote that in a story people would complain it wasn't realistic... but it really happens.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

That’s a great example of what I’m talking about.

Which one was it, if you could remember? It might have been Cuckold Camp or The Gauntlet.


Well, actually, in the Gauntlet, the submissive protagonist does not have any prior relationships to the characters he encounters throughout the story. The premise of both that and Cuckold Camp have fantasy built in to them, as well as the setting, which I think I was using as a bit of a crutch as a writer at the time, because it would probably be illegal to have places like that in real life and no such places exist, as far as I’m aware. In Black & White i was kind of being lazy as a writer and speedrunning the dialogue scenes as well as the setup to the domination, but the first chapter is actually the setup even though it directly implies the characters have history. A lot of my old stories were as you describe, though, and to the extent that they weren’t, the backstory was left undeveloped for a later date. In some cases this was important to character believability in a paradoxical way (Eleanor from CC is the best example of that) but it’s nothing I wasn’t planning on expanding upon in later stories.


you’re right, but y’know, those stories were 1-3 years ago, and I wouldn’t be posting a thread like this if I wasn’t thinking about it as an author. Give me about 5 months and I think I’ll have something ready that leads you all the way up from beginning to end of one character’s journey into the kind of dynamics that I was exploring in earlier stories, fit with backstory and motivation and the kind of inner (and outer) conflict that leads a story to blossom to fruition.

I’m planning on and working on stories that tell us how these characters got where they end up. I’m more interested in that kind of thing now than I was before. And I think I’ve been improving in the shadows since I’ve been gone. I just don’t yet have one ready to share.

I've no idea what the name of the series was. But yeah, I understand, and I can definitely relate.
When I first started publishing here, even though building up the relationship was something I was devoted to from the very first word, I remember having much simpler ideas at first. What began as mostly a long stroke story ended up being much more serious work because, as you said, my ambitions, writing skills, and desires evolved rapidly.

So it's not hard to imagine that you also now strive towards something more complex and challenging than your early work.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I just want to say -- I don't think there's anything wrong with slice-of-life sex scenes, especially in standalone stories. A story that takes thirty or forty thousand words to put the characters in bed together isn't necessarily more virtuous than one that starts with them there, as long as what's happening in the bed reveals something about the characters beyond Tab A Slot B. There's a whole school of thought that short stories shouldn't have a beginning or end; just a cut taken from the middle, and what happens before and after is left to the reader.

I don't disagree with you here. I am not hating on short stories, and when I say short story, I mean something with 5k words at least. I also agree with the idea of taking the cut from the middle. I actually don't see many other ways for shorter stories to work.
What I meant is that few of Literotica's short stories are like that. Taking a cut from the middle requires having two characters with established dynamics, and the author should just ease us into those dynamics, show us some hints and signs, and then just go from there and tell us the story. That's not what I see in most short stories here.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Man, there are times I wish I wasn’t so damn verbose

That's one of my sins, too. I think I've improved a lot in that regard, but yeah, it's not always easy to tell.

When it comes to feedback, I was about to say why not, but then I saw your series has 20 chapters, each of them around 20k words long. I take back what I said about being verbose.

Jokes aside, my fantasy series is already 200k+ words long and not even halfway done. I have almost everything outlined but no desire to do the work, as publishing here isn't good enough for me anymore.

 

[bigcockstallion]

I use all that I can

 

[Bramblethorn]

This is actually a great point, because it kind of adds to what I said without sidestepping it. If you can get the reader to believe your fantasy then perhaps it doesn't trail too far. I can see a lot of writers here taking that as a bit of a challenge or aspirational goal to pursue.

This was part of the genesis of one of my stories: I wanted to take a fantasy premise (ordinary workplace descends to public sex and flogging) and make readers feel like it could actually happen, without resorting to "magic" (mind control lasers etc.) That meant putting a lot of work into figuring out how the instigator goads these people into that behaviour instead of just writing "and then three hours later everybody was fucking".

One of my others is about somebody dealing with the disappointment of finding out that the person she wants to settle down with isn't looking for that. I don't think that's many people's fantasy.

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

When it comes to feedback, I was about to say why not, but then I saw your series has 20 chapters, each of them around 20k words long. I take back what I said about being verbose.

It’s funny because when I started, I was doing like 5k or so and people wanted more. Then I got a rhythm with 15k stories and now the last three chapters I’ve done have hit 20k and then final chapter of Part 2 is 30k.

Next series I need to smack myself and keep things to 15k max and stop trying to just do 20 chapters.

 

[SimonDoom]

This was part of the genesis of one of my stories: I wanted to take a fantasy premise (ordinary workplace descends to public sex and flogging) and make readers feel like it could actually happen, without resorting to "magic" (mind control lasers etc.) That meant putting a lot of work into figuring out how the instigator goads these people into that behaviour instead of just writing "and then three hours later everybody was fucking".

One of my others is about somebody dealing with the disappointment of finding out that the person she wants to settle down with isn't looking for that. I don't think that's many people's fantasy.

The flogging story is one of my favorites. I thought you succeeded very well in taking a fantastic premise and making it about as real as possible. The twist at the end was inspired.

 

[SimonDoom]

A few more thoughts.

A major consideration is the length of the story. If it's a short story, you can only take so much time explaining the magic. It's OK to get to the point. After all, Kafka's story Metamorphosis begins with Gregor Samsa turning into an insect at the beginning of the story, with no explanation.

I have two general personal guidelines when it comes to magic in a story.

Number one, do SOMETHING to get the reader through the magic, even if it's very brief. Offer something, anything, to suspend disbelief. I personally don't need much, as a reader. I like fantasy.

Number two, don't do TOO MUCH magic. Usually one bit of a magic per story, in a short story, is fine, and two bits of magic or more make me feel like I'm being manipulated. I can accept almost any ONE piece of magic, artfully done, but I don't like having too much magic thrown at me.

 

[Voboy]

"Fantasy," defined (as I understand it) by the OP as highly improbable happy solutions from complicated situations, does sometimes happen in real life. I've had it happen to me several times, but then I'm a fairly carefree man who generally takes life as it comes and doesn't overanalyze situations. I like to think that opens my mind to situations that lack easy solutions.

And there are certainly ways to give such things verisimilitude in stories written here, even for an audience chiefly interested in getting off. Part of that involves... creating likeable characters whose minds are open to whatever happens to them. If a writer does the legwork of establishing that kind of character, then the "fantasy" won't be much of a shock. It'll be par for the course.

 

[YmaOHyd]

I view the fantasy proposed by the OP as something like "improbable situations arising from a desire to have as much Erotic Act X in the story as possible." For example -- in the series Senior Year Memories, characters in the story speculate about whether there's something in the town's water supply that accounts for the fact that every woman is bisexual and does anal, and 80% of them are sporting improbably large racks. The author there acknowledges that the story depends on that sort of fantasy logic -- you can fuck your problems away -- and buying into that is essential to enjoying the work. And in that case, it's fine; it's stated up front as a condition of the story. It's part of the rules of the author's world rather than a narrative convenience.

 

[countdowntolov3]

For me it's less about how much fantasy/porn-logic the story allows itself, and more about how uniform that percentage is across the story.

If I'm reading a grounded will-they-won't-they story about two cute-but-awkward buffoons and they finally get around to the big bang and... now they're pornstars. Well, I'm let down. But I might enjoy the same sex scene very much if they were, say, a couple of larger-than-life spies chasing each other across the world.

As a writer, I find this a distressing realization. Because, the thing is, how do I signal to the reader what the sex is going to be like when we finally get around to it? And, should I?

 

[Kelliezgirl]

For me it's less about how much fantasy/porn-logic the story allows itself, and more about how uniform that percentage is across the story.

If I'm reading a grounded will-they-won't-they story about two cute-but-awkward buffoons and they finally get around to the big bang and... now they're pornstars. Well, I'm let down. But I might enjoy the same sex scene very much if they were, say, a couple of larger-than-life spies chasing each other across the world.

As a writer, I find this a distressing realization. Because, the thing is, how do I signal to the reader what the sex is going to be like when we finally get around to it? And, should I?

Internal consistency is important for any kind of "magic".

 

[madelinemasoch]

For me it's less about how much fantasy/porn-logic the story allows itself, and more about how uniform that percentage is across the story.

If I'm reading a grounded will-they-won't-they story about two cute-but-awkward buffoons and they finally get around to the big bang and... now they're pornstars. Well, I'm let down. But I might enjoy the same sex scene very much if they were, say, a couple of larger-than-life spies chasing each other across the world.

As a writer, I find this a distressing realization. Because, the thing is, how do I signal to the reader what the sex is going to be like when we finally get around to it? And, should I?

Sounds like you've got a problem with almost like compartmentalizing the sex. For me, the sex is always a part of the story directly. It wouldn't be there for the sake of it. I'm not writing porn. I'm not writing erotica for the sake of it as such. I'm just writing stories that happen to have erotic elements. There's always something I'm trying to say with those elements. The sex is directly expressive of themes. It's never about the sex in itself. So in no two stories of mine will the sex ever be the same.

 

[countdowntolov3]

Sounds like you've got a problem with almost like compartmentalizing the sex. For me, the sex is always a part of the story directly. It wouldn't be there for the sake of it. I'm not writing porn. I'm not writing erotica for the sake of it as such. I'm just writing stories that happen to have erotic elements. There's always something I'm trying to say with those elements. The sex is directly expressive of themes. It's never about the sex in itself. So in no two stories of mine will the sex ever be the same.

In a story that's not sex forward, the sex should say something. But if the sex can say something... then there must be multiple things it could say. Otherwise it's not actually adding anything at all. (Kind of like this paragraph, which I'm pretty sure is the same idea stated three times over. Four now.)

 

[madelinemasoch]

In a story that's not sex forward, the sex should say something. But if the sex can say something... then there must be multiple things it could say. Otherwise it's not actually adding anything at all. (Kind of like this paragraph, which I'm pretty sure is the same idea stated three times over. Four now.)

I agree.

 

[Duleigh]

I have a reason for not allowing "fantasy" to take over the story

Unless your story is biographical, every single story here IS fantasy. Fantasy of what life would be like with the boss's secretary. Fantasy of a evening with your wife if she was more sexually aggressive, or submissive. It's all fantasy

Personally I love a lot of fantasy, a single mom of two trapped in her car in a blizzard and rescued by some bum on a tractor who turns out to be a millionaire. A futuristic starfighter who is in love with his commanders daughter saves the colonies of Mars by supplying them with water by stealing an ice moon from Saturn. A powerful male witch marries a female sorceress and saves his tiny mountain kingdom, becoming a rich and powerful but humble duke. I just don't hide the fantasy.

 

[SimonDoom]

Here's an example. My E/V story from 8 years ago, "A Bikini With A Mind Of Its Own," is about exactly what the title says. A woman wears a new bikini that she just bought online to the beach, and it keeps falling off her, despite her best efforts, as though it is trying to expose her. The entire story is based on a magical concept. I enjoyed writing the story, and it's received many views (over 389,000 as of today), favorites, and positive comments, but the score is only 4.44. Some readers obviously didn't care for the magical element, and some objected to the extra magical twist I added near the end (possibly violating my own rule against too much magic).

So I think the point is that magic/fantasy is always going to be one of those things that will get varied responses in a story, and you should be prepared for that. People's opinions vary widely on the subject of plausibility, and what works for one person may spoil the story for another.

 

[jaF0]

A powerful male witch marries a female sorceress and saves his tiny mountain kingdom, becoming a rich and powerful but humble duke. I just don't hide the fantasy.

Wow ... build that off 'One Tin Soldier'.


Listen people to a story
That was written long ago,
'bout a kingdom on a mountain
And the valley folks below.

 

[Duleigh]

Wow ... build that off 'One Tin Soldier'.


Listen people to a story
That was written long ago,
'bout a kingdom on a mountain
And the valley folks below.

It's my series "Enchantress"

 

[Comshaw]

I'm curious: what do "too much fantasy ruins my reading experience" people think of directly sexual nonsense, like "A sixty-year-old man has four orgasms in the same night"?

-Annie

8.2 billion people on the earth, and you believe this isn't possible, ever? Awe yes, the naivety of the young.

Comshaw

​

 

[TheWritingGroup]

8.2 billion people on the earth, and you believe this isn't possible, ever? Awe yes, the naivety of the young.

Comshaw

As someone mentioned up above, more that it would be so unusual that people would notice and comment, same as if they ran into an Olympic gold medalist or a 2.5 meter tall person.

-Annie

 

[Comshaw]

As someone mentioned up above, more that it would be so unusual that people would notice and comment, same as if they ran into an Olympic gold medalist or a 2.5 meter tall person.

-Annie

However, that's not what you said the first time:

...people think of directly sexual nonsense...

unusual ≠ nonsense

Comshaw