How to move forward after an affair

[njlauren]

Betrayal is in your mind! time for a little Zen break from our destructive ego-centric world...

The "cheating" aside, everything else that has been shared about this guy does not bode well for a healthy relationship, no matter what the expectations are - and even worse for the kids involved. The worst thing to do to kids is stay in a destructive relationship...

Betrayal isn't in the mind, betrayal is an emotional response which is not in the logical/rational mind, they have a lif of their own.

Betrayal isn't having sex outside the marriage, it is having sex outside the marriage behind the other person's back, and worse, from reading the OP's posts, he also doesn't exactly seem like he understands what a big deal this is (I could be wrong, since I only have the same info as everyone else). Based on what the OP has written, it wouldn't surprise me if he is still cheating, or planning to.

 

[njlauren]

I have checked his phone for texts and our online bill. In the end most people tell me it is too easy for him to cover his tracks and it would be almost impossible to catch him if he doesn't want to be caught. I have a nagging suspicion he continues to talk to her, but I have no proof and it appears no way of getting proof.

We are in counseling but the progress is slow.

It's hard not to blame myself knowing he wanted me to change and I had been trying to make changes to keep him content.

Don't blame yourself and if you make changes do it for yourself. If he suggested your dress "more sexy", then find clothing and such that suits yourself, if he suggested you lose weight, ask yourself if you feel like you would feel better losing a few pounds, or if you know it would be healthy to get more exercise (I don't know too many people who would tell you it isn't.

I am glad you are on counselling, it can be slot.One thing that is important I think, having done relationship counseling (patient, not counselor!), is that both people have to work at it...look closely at what is going on, is he really trying? Does he ever admit his problems, does he ever admit to doing things that hurt you? One of the problems with counseling is that it is very easy to sit there, make the right noises, and not do a damn thing..more importantly, does it ever sound like he goes in there and when the cheating came up, it sounds like he is giving excuses (typical ones "my wife is interested more in the kids", "My wife just isn't trying to please me any more' "He spends all his time working, comes home late", ....if it sounds like he is excusing what he did, that isn't working on it, and if you feel the counselor isn't making him work, or trying to, if they just accept it at face value, think about someone new......there are a lot of schmucky counselors, including ones who take sides, and you need someone willing to cut through the crap and make the people really talk.

One thing that please take as an observation, has your husband always been critical of you, as you wrote? Did he always criticize you like that, or is that recent? One of the signs of cheating is that cheaters often create 'reason' why cheating is okay (my wife isn't interested in sex, she physically has let god, my husband has eyes more for his evening drink then me, he doesn't excite me, etc), they rationalize their cheating that way, and often it will also show up in them criticizing the spouse. I don't know your situation, but if the criticism started fairly recently, it may indicate how long/how much your husband either was cheating or thinking about it, this could be a manifestation of him jusifying cheating or planning to (it also could simply be expressing discontent and nothing to do with the cheating).I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't still cheating, but only you really will know that I think, based on how he is reacting to you. Woman are good IME at covering up cheating, men less so, so I suspect your gut instincts will tell you...

I agree with Erika and others, you may want to get individual counseling to help figure out what you need to do, and also give yourself someone who won't judge you if you start looking at alternatives, and also can help you figure out if the counseling is actually doing something, if you talk about what happens in the session they may be able to help you figure out if hubby is trying or not, if he seems interested in building trust or is snowing you. I would be especially suspicious if he keeps criticizing you or otherwise implies somehow it was your fault (i.e saying you were too frumpy, whatever), if someone screws up like he did the last thing he should be is critical IMO.

 

[octobersky]

Progress can be slow, but nothing in this situation is easy. Make sure you've given it your all before you make any decisions. You don't want to end up thinking "what if" down the line.

He wanted you to change? Why should you be the only one to have to change? What makes his needs and desires more important than yours? He needs to compromise, too. If he's not willing to do that, or wait patiently while you implement the changes he deems necessary, there are other ways to handle things. If he was that miserable he should have suggested therapy before it got to this point.

Do not take the blame for this!!

You're right I don't want what-ifs down the line or regret.

I'm wondering if my husband is more egotistical than I ever realized. I wanted to believe his world was made up of his children and me (and many other things), but I think it consists mainly of him and his wants. I think he believes I exist to make him happy and if I'm not meeting his criteria then he will change me or replace me.

Don't blame yourself and if you make changes do it for yourself. If he suggested your dress "more sexy", then find clothing and such that suits yourself, if he suggested you lose weight, ask yourself if you feel like you would feel better losing a few pounds, or if you know it would be healthy to get more exercise (I don't know too many people who would tell you it isn't.

I am glad you are on counselling, it can be slot.One thing that is important I think, having done relationship counseling (patient, not counselor!), is that both people have to work at it...look closely at what is going on, is he really trying? Does he ever admit his problems, does he ever admit to doing things that hurt you? One of the problems with counseling is that it is very easy to sit there, make the right noises, and not do a damn thing..more importantly, does it ever sound like he goes in there and when the cheating came up, it sounds like he is giving excuses (typical ones "my wife is interested more in the kids", "My wife just isn't trying to please me any more' "He spends all his time working, comes home late", ....if it sounds like he is excusing what he did, that isn't working on it, and if you feel the counselor isn't making him work, or trying to, if they just accept it at face value, think about someone new......there are a lot of schmucky counselors, including ones who take sides, and you need someone willing to cut through the crap and make the people really talk.

One thing that please take as an observation, has your husband always been critical of you, as you wrote? Did he always criticize you like that, or is that recent? One of the signs of cheating is that cheaters often create 'reason' why cheating is okay (my wife isn't interested in sex, she physically has let god, my husband has eyes more for his evening drink then me, he doesn't excite me, etc), they rationalize their cheating that way, and often it will also show up in them criticizing the spouse. I don't know your situation, but if the criticism started fairly recently, it may indicate how long/how much your husband either was cheating or thinking about it, this could be a manifestation of him jusifying cheating or planning to (it also could simply be expressing discontent and nothing to do with the cheating).I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't still cheating, but only you really will know that I think, based on how he is reacting to you. Woman are good IME at covering up cheating, men less so, so I suspect your gut instincts will tell you...

I agree with Erika and others, you may want to get individual counseling to help figure out what you need to do, and also give yourself someone who won't judge you if you start looking at alternatives, and also can help you figure out if the counseling is actually doing something, if you talk about what happens in the session they may be able to help you figure out if hubby is trying or not, if he seems interested in building trust or is snowing you. I would be especially suspicious if he keeps criticizing you or otherwise implies somehow it was your fault (i.e saying you were too frumpy, whatever), if someone screws up like he did the last thing he should be is critical IMO.

Thank you, I've tried to make some changes and some I'm not comfortable with. I fight with being what he wants me to be and still having a sense of who I am.

The counseling questions are good ones. I will have to think about them.

I don't have a good feel for the timeline of when he was asking for change and when the affair actually began. I'm not sure if he was looking for change in me before it started or while it was happening. I'll ask better questions about that in our next counseling appointment.

Lost Yonder - I think kiersth12 and njlauren summed up my thoughts on your post. I'm not bisexual or bicurious, not only that, but I have no interest in having sex with a woman that willingly has sex with a married man behind his wife's back.

 

[octobersky]

I have been thinking about the questions many of you have asked me. I had a revelation of sorts. I've been conflicted over the idea that if I choose to divorce, I am leaving my marriage. It came to me that no matter what I choose it isn't me that left our marriage, he did. When he chose to have an affair, physically and emotionally, with her, he is the one that left.

I didn't do this, I didn't choose to leave our marriage, he made that choice and he made it without asking how I felt about it.

 

[Somehowyou]

I have been thinking about the questions many of you have asked me. I had a revelation of sorts. I've been conflicted over the idea that if I choose to divorce, I am leaving my marriage. It came to me that no matter what I choose it isn't me that left our marriage, he did. When he chose to have an affair, physically and emotionally, with her, he is the one that left.

I didn't do this, I didn't choose to leave our marriage, he made that choice and he made it without asking how I felt about it.

Aha! A moment of clarity. I couldn't agree more. Good luck

 

[bob53]

You need to me true to yourself and stand up and OWN your feeling and beliefs.
He knew who you are when you got married and then had children.
If you wish to change then it has to come from within you NOT because he wants it.
That only furthers his ability to blame you for his faults and continues his control and manipulation of you.
At this point he is the one that needs to own up and acknowledge his mistakes. Only from that place do either of you have a chance of moving forward in this current relationship.

Through all of this be sure to trust your gut instincts. They are telling you the truth whether you want to hear it or not.

 

[njlauren]

I have been thinking about the questions many of you have asked me. I had a revelation of sorts. I've been conflicted over the idea that if I choose to divorce, I am leaving my marriage. It came to me that no matter what I choose it isn't me that left our marriage, he did. When he chose to have an affair, physically and emotionally, with her, he is the one that left.

I didn't do this, I didn't choose to leave our marriage, he made that choice and he made it without asking how I felt about it.

Definitely a moment of clarity, it is why a lot of us have been telling you don't blame yourself. Sadly, there are still pastoral counselors out there who will tell a woman in your position that no matter what the husband did, the marriage is above all, you can't divorce, etc, and that attitude is still out there in society as well...and that is complete crap IMO. When someone cheats, emotionally or physically, they chose to put something else besides the marriage in the forefront, they left it without the honesty of admitting it.

I would never push someone to get divorced, it has consequences for all involved, but don't use as rational that somehow deciding to divorce is you 'wrecking the marriage', the other person did that, pure and simple and you are trying to figure out how to put the pieces back together and you and you alone have to decide which option it is. I generally hope people try other options before divorcing but if that seems like the only way someone can move forward with their life then don't feel guilty about 'breaking up the marriage', among other things, it would give him more satisfaction knowing you felt guilty.

Again I recommend strongly considering finding a therapist or counselor for yourself, they are trained in helping you find what you want and need, not your husband, not society, but rather what you want and need, and they are good at guiding you towards finding what you need. Among other things, if you do decide to forge ahead with your marriage, they can help you forge a new relationship where you get what you need, rather then trying simply to please your husband, it sounds like up until this point you feel that it has been pretty one sided, that would have to go, relationships are two way.

I wish you luck, my only other advice at this point is to take it slowly, take your time to find what you need and plan out how you want to go moving forward, whether staying in the marriage or moving on, it is worth taking that time

 

[octobersky]

Thank you all so much. I came back to update and it is not good news.

I went through my husband's briefcase and I found a phone I have never seen before. I can't think of any good reason for him to have a secondary cell phone and he hasn't given me the number. I tried to look at calls and texts, but he has it passcode protected.

I am left to assume this is bad news for my marriage. I'm not sure how I should proceed, or how to confront him about it or if I should. I welcome any suggestions or thoughts.

 

[imemkay]

Oh, I am so sorry to hear this news. You are right, there is no good reason for him to have this phone you've never seen or to have it password protected.

Clearly he has established a pattern of cheating and lying. I mean, he didn't even confess in full last time...you had to tear it from him piece by piece.

What I would have done? I would have taken that phone and watched him squirm for a few days while he looked for it. Then I would have brought it with me to our next therapy session. I'd have told him he gives me the password right then and there, or he's out. Then I would have called every number that phone and confronted the situation head on.

That's just what I would do....you need to do what you are comfortable with. If you are not certain that you are willing to kick him to the curb, don't follow my advice! Whatever you decide, you will come out the other end of this a much stronger person than you ever thought you could be.

He wants you to change for him, but he clearly is not even considering changing his ways for you. Unfortunately, that fact is very clear now.

Whatever you decide, I really do wish you all the luck in the world and I'm sending all good thoughts and big hugs your way.

 

[subwannabe]

He's probably a big scumbag but is it possible this phone is connected to his work and they gave him a personal phone for business use? Also, is it possible he got another phone and added it on to your current provider? If so you may be able to go online and see what calls he is making and recieving. Unfortunately, I'm putting my money on the fact that he is a scumbag and you should divorce him. You can't live the rest of your life not trusting him. I used to work in retail and I had a philosophy of cutting down consumer shoplifting by not letting them do it in the first place. Too many places let shoppers shoplift and then try and catch them afterwards. My policy was highly successful. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if he is guilty then I would have a policy of divorce rather than just letting it continue and trying to catch him. He will get more and more creative at hiding it and you have a good life waiting for you out there somewhere if you don't waste your valuable time trying to catch him.

 

[SweetErika]

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

Honestly, I think you need to talk to an amazing divorce attorney. That doesn't mean you have to get divorced, just that you need to lay the groundwork in case you need to go that route and protect yourself and your kids now. It's all too common for people to sock away assets, run up credit card and other debt in this situation, and as long as you're legally married, you'll be held liable for what your husband does. So go talk to that attorney and take the steps s/he suggests just in case your husband is already ruining you financially or is planning on making a move soon.

I wouldn't confront him until after you get some solid legal advice and do anything you need to do in that arena (e.g. file for legal separation, open your own bank accounts, etc.), but see what your attorney and therapist think.

 

[octobersky]

subwannabe, his company pays for his phone and his plan, so I know it isn't for work. I will check our (my) plan and see if he added a line. Thank you for thinking of that.

SweetErika, thank you that is sound advice. I will make an appointment. This is all so surreal.

 

[bob53]

At this point I would FIRST talk to an attorney.

Know the legal options in your state before taking any further action.

This does NOT mean you have to go forward with legal action but rather to know your options so you don't screw anything up IF you every want to take action in the future.

EDUCATE yourself first so that any action you decide to take will be in your and your kids best interest.

Start a log book even if that is just emailing notes to yourself at a new yahoo or gmail account.

EDIT: After posting I see others have said about them same things. Way to many interruptions while typing this.

Good luck

 

[KierstH12]

.........................

 

[KierstH12]

.......................

 

[octobersky]

One thing to consider if you choose to continue looking through his things or at online bills, etc. Make sure you want to have the answers or information you could find. It could end up being more painful, so make sure you want the reality before you go looking for it. I have known women who wished they had not found out the truth.

I want the truth. I've tried for months to get him to tell me the truth. In the beginning, he would get annoyed when I looked at his phone or snooped. He would say we couldn't move forward if I kept assuming the worst. Now I know he was intentionally trying to hide his activities from me. He did get better at hiding, and had I taken his advice I never would have found his secondary phone.

I want the truth, and I don't care how painful it is. I would rather know now and not waste however many years with him only to find out he never stopped.

 

[njlauren]

This doesn't sound good at all, and I second what others have said, that you should prepare yourself for divorce, even if it doesn't come to that. Having a phone you didn't know about and that is password protected has all the hallmarks of a scumbag cheater trying to go more stealth. I would check your plan to see if he added another phone, though it also could be a phone done on a pay as you go basis, so it may not be on your primary plan. I almost agree with someone else, you could have taken the phone and when you have a counseling session, confront him with it...the only thing is you have to go in knowing that if you do that IMO it is more likely than not that your marriage is done...though to be honest it doesn't sound promising at this point.

If you have funds you used you could get a private investigator involved, but to be honest it probably isn't worth the cost, unless you really need to know the truth and won't make a move one way or the other without it. It won't matter much in the divorce if I understand divorce law correctly (another reason to have a consult with a lawyer ASAP, to get an idea of what can happen in the laws of your state), but it could give you the peace of mind that he definitely is cheating and continues to cheat. Not knowing is the worse thing IMO, I personally would want to know (on top of everything else, whoever cheated with my spouse would find it isn't wise to tangle with a semi retired gearhead *evil grin*). Seriously, if you need to know if you can afford it a PI might not be a bad option, but that has its drawbacks, too...

I also re-iterate you may want to seek individual counseling to help you in making decisions. Divorce is not easy and in the words of my therapist, it is something you need to be emotionally in a good place to keep from getting screwed....that and a good lawyer. I wish you well, I wish I could offer more then what I can do, send as much healing energy and thoughts your way as I can

Lauren

 

[KierstH12]

..........................

 

[Eilan]

I can commiserate with feeling the need to know. Be careful to brace yourself for what you could find and the emotions that will undoubtedly come with it.

I have found many of the answers to my questions. I am constantly surprised how many women willingly engaged in a relationship with my husband, knowing he was married, and of course the one who continues to do so.

I have more experience that could be of help to you. I will send you a PM.

My husband's ex-wife deliberately pursued married men--maybe she still does, but I wouldn't know. I think she considered them to be a challenge.

 

[Emerson40]

Wow, so many issues here, interesting and engaging feedback. I don't even know where to begin. While I can only imagine how difficult it is for you, I think your experience, so personal yet so universal, raises some important issues, for the sake of discussion. Thus, my apologies, as what I write doesn't reflect solely on your situation.....
Now, as for how to deal with it - only you can decide that, and anyone who tries to standardize some moralistic response is clueless about human behavior, relationships, and sexuality. Each relationship we enter into is so radically different - and they change over time. My wife, early on, cheated on me, at first it hurt, but then on reflecting on it, I realized it wasn't that big of a deal - she was with me, we loved each other, her having a drunken fling with someone wasn't a big deal. Now I'm at the point I wish she would have an affair (but that is another story). The point being, one can't assume all cheating in all relationships should be dealt with the same.

Possible responses:
1) Invite her over and have a 3some!
2) Let go of your own constructed assumption that his sexuality is intricately linked to your love/relationship with him.
3) Go online together and find other dates/sex partners for him - and you (I once had a friend when we were quite young who stole a few cigarettes from his mom and smoked them. His dad found out and fourced him to smoke a whole pack - he got really sick and never smoked again! - not saying that will work with sex, but hey, worth a shot! I do know of a case where he was a serial cheater, for the sake of the kids she didn't divorce him, they fought regularly, making the whole thing worse. They finally sat down and came to an agreement - they could have sex with other people. She tried it, wasn't really into it. Since he got the "green light" to fuck others, he hasn't been with another.)

OK, pounce away...

Betrayal is in your mind! time for a little Zen break from our destructive ego-centric world...

...

You can't be serious. If so... give your head a shake. If not... not appropriate, and in very poor taste.

The "cheating" aside, everything else that has been shared about this guy does not bode well for a healthy relationship, no matter what the expectations are - and even worse for the kids involved. The worst thing to do to kids is stay in a destructive relationship...

Perhaps you have had your own moment of clarity. This is not only true, it is the smartest thing you wrote in this thread.

 

[amofiga]

I want the truth. I've tried for months to get him to tell me the truth. In the beginning, he would get annoyed when I looked at his phone or snooped. He would say we couldn't move forward if I kept assuming the worst. Now I know he was intentionally trying to hide his activities from me. He did get better at hiding, and had I taken his advice I never would have found his secondary phone.

I want the truth, and I don't care how painful it is. I would rather know now and not waste however many years with him only to find out he never stopped.

Your husband is never going to admit to an affair no matter how many times you ask him or what "circumstantial evidence" you have whether it be the phone, hotel receipts, even being seen in public with another woman. I had excuses ready for all of that if it became a problem for me when I was having affairs. It wasn't until the last of several long term affairs went berserk and called my wife on the phone that there was no way to deny it and I had to face up to what I had done.

As I've already told you in my PM's, IF both you AND your husband want to continue in the marriage because you both have something deeper than superficial affairs, then it's going to take counseling, counseling, and more counseling plus the willingness to open your soul to each other. You're both going to have to view each other in a light you probably never have heretofore. It is going to involve a lot of pain and you're not going to like hearing a lot of what he and the counselor have to say as well as him not wanting to hear what you and the counselor have to say. You will definately both have to learn to accept each other and yourselves again for who you ARE and not for who you THOUGHT you were or who you wanted each other to be.

IF he is truly wanting to end the marriage, there isn't anything you can do to stop it and for God's sake, whatever you do, don't beg. Don't give up your own self because you are afraid. It's likely he did what he did thinking you wouldn't have the guts to leave if he got caught. I'm NOT recommending that you end a marriage that you both want to keep, but you both need to want very badly to keep it and make the necessary effort to do so. Regardless, it wouldn't be a bad idea for you to speak with a lawyer on your own as a precautionary activity just so you'll know what to do if it comes to divorce.

Seriously as I've already told you. You need to listen to your own heart and soul and not what others tell you who may not have been through this trauma. It's easy for friends and family to call him a scumbag and tell you to leave but you could be doing yourself and him and your family a disservice by not trying to get at the root of the problem. Quarterbacking from the cheap seats is easy. It's just as easy for you to ASSUME and rationalize what he's done as it is for him to do the same. You should not blame yourself if he is indeed having an affair, but on the other hand, you need to know what you might have done or didn't do that gave him the internal excuses to rationalize to himself why he's doing what he's doing. Again, that doesn't make it right for him to do it, but knowing all sides of the story is necessary if things are to be put right again. The big question is would you be better off and happier without him, or do you truly love him? How upset would you be about knowing of his girlfriends and sexual activity prior to marriage? Is this just about sex or is there a real emotional commitment between him and his lady friend? If it's just sex, it's probably a fixable situation. If he's really in love with someone else, that takes it to another level.

Seriously, good luck.

 

[nfrrdscnnr1]

accept

Accept your share of the problems that led to the cheating but DO NOT expect to "forgive" him. You need not even think about doing that until and unless he "gets" deep down what damage he has done with the infidelity. None of this crap about "it's partially your fault" that is a very dead end. He must become an OPEN book being very clear about where he is, what he is doing and with whom and allow you complete access to his messages in all forms as a beginning. If he can't do that, you have no reason to even think about trusting him.

 

[KierstH12]

................

 

[amofiga]

<<< People have affairs because they want to. They make a purposeful choice to betray their spouse. She can make every concession and he still has that part of him that is willing to fill his wants at her expense. There are infinite justifications for cheating, but it boils down to one reason, they cheat because they want to. >>>

I agree. Been there. It takes a lot to own up to the fact that, regardless of the "justifications and rationalizations", it was a conscious decision and you have to learn a lot about yourself as to why you made that decision. It's not an easy process and you can start hating yourself, but you have to get by that just as the cheated party has to learn to accept reality and recognize that you can't undo what has been done. The only choice is to move on with what you've learned.

Humans make mistakes be it smoking, drinking too much, taking drugs, or having affairs. All are conscious decisions, some can lead to a form of addiction whether physical or psychological. The point is, we, as humans, can also make conscious decisions as to whether to destroy a person or a marriage or a job as a result of a mistake/bad decision, or we can truly adopt what is supposed to be a Christian teaching......forgiveness is devine. Catholics are taught that virtually any sin is forgivable by God if the intent in your heart is sincerely to change and be better. Everyone is entitled to a second chance. I'm not sure about a third and a fourth and a fifth...... It does no good to apologize, sit through counseling, agree to whatever is said to make it look good and then go right back and do the same thing. People can indeed recover from bad decisions, but it can be painful. Some of the toughest pain is seeing yourself emotionally naked reflected in a loved-one's eyes.

 

[bailadora]

The point is, we, as humans, can also make conscious decisions as to whether to destroy a person or a marriage or a job as a result of a mistake/bad decision, or we can truly adopt what is supposed to be a Christian teaching......forgiveness is devine.

Forgiveness =/= trust.

It's totally possible to forgive someone for the wrong/hurt they have caused you and still not trust them further than you can throw them. Nowhere is it written that you must let that person back into your life.