How to move forward after an affair

[octobersky]

Your husband is never going to admit to an affair no matter how many times you ask him or what "circumstantial evidence" you have whether it be the phone, hotel receipts, even being seen in public with another woman. I had excuses ready for all of that if it became a problem for me when I was having affairs. It wasn't until the last of several long term affairs went berserk and called my wife on the phone that there was no way to deny it and I had to face up to what I had done.

As I've already told you in my PM's, IF both you AND your husband want to continue in the marriage because you both have something deeper than superficial affairs, then it's going to take counseling, counseling, and more counseling plus the willingness to open your soul to each other. You're both going to have to view each other in a light you probably never have heretofore. It is going to involve a lot of pain and you're not going to like hearing a lot of what he and the counselor have to say as well as him not wanting to hear what you and the counselor have to say. You will definately both have to learn to accept each other and yourselves again for who you ARE and not for who you THOUGHT you were or who you wanted each other to be.

IF he is truly wanting to end the marriage, there isn't anything you can do to stop it and for God's sake, whatever you do, don't beg. Don't give up your own self because you are afraid. It's likely he did what he did thinking you wouldn't have the guts to leave if he got caught. I'm NOT recommending that you end a marriage that you both want to keep, but you both need to want very badly to keep it and make the necessary effort to do so. Regardless, it wouldn't be a bad idea for you to speak with a lawyer on your own as a precautionary activity just so you'll know what to do if it comes to divorce.

Seriously as I've already told you. You need to listen to your own heart and soul and not what others tell you who may not have been through this trauma. It's easy for friends and family to call him a scumbag and tell you to leave but you could be doing yourself and him and your family a disservice by not trying to get at the root of the problem. Quarterbacking from the cheap seats is easy. It's just as easy for you to ASSUME and rationalize what he's done as it is for him to do the same. You should not blame yourself if he is indeed having an affair, but on the other hand, you need to know what you might have done or didn't do that gave him the internal excuses to rationalize to himself why he's doing what he's doing. Again, that doesn't make it right for him to do it, but knowing all sides of the story is necessary if things are to be put right again. The big question is would you be better off and happier without him, or do you truly love him? How upset would you be about knowing of his girlfriends and sexual activity prior to marriage? Is this just about sex or is there a real emotional commitment between him and his lady friend? If it's just sex, it's probably a fixable situation. If he's really in love with someone else, that takes it to another level.

Seriously, good luck.

If he isn't willing to admit to the affair and be honest with me the marriage is over by his choosing. We can't work on an issue if it is not admitted to, FULLY.

I need to listen to my heart and soul AND what my husband is telling me by his silence, by his refusal to be honest about what he has done. He wants me to stop looking for clues and take him at his word, but his word means nothing. He has a secret phone for god's sake, I am left to assume he also has an email I know nothing about and god knows what else.

He has destroyed my trust and broken my heart and he wants me to pretend nothing has happened, get over it and sweep it under the rug.

 

[octobersky]

Keep in mind it is a real possibility that he wants to keep the marriage and his mistress. Many men do not see it as unreasonable to have both, therefore they will go through the motions and jump,through the hoops to keep their wife and become more skilled at hiding their mistress.


People have affairs because they want to. They make a purposeful choice to betray their spouse. She can make every concession and he still has that part of him that is willing to fill his wants at her expense. There are infinite justifications for cheating, but it boils down to one reason, they cheat because they want to.

Thanks, he wants me to believe it's my choice of clothing, the extra 15 pounds and my dedication to our children that are to blame. He is to blame, he did this. You are right, he chose to cheat simply because he wanted to. Also, thank you for your PM, I'd like to talk more.

bailadora - Your post is part of the decision I am trying to come to terms with. Whether or not I can forgive and trust again, but how can I trust when he can't be honest?

amofiga - I greatly appreciate your posts and thoughts. I do, however, disagree that everyone deserves a second chance. The second chance has to be earned.

 

[bailadora]

bailadora - Your post is part of the decision I am trying to come to terms with. Whether or not I can forgive and trust again, but how can I trust when he can't be honest?

My heart aches for you, Octobersky and I'm so very sorry you're having to go through this.

Honestly, I can see why you're hesitant to want to move forward. If he doesn't care about how badly you've been hurt by his actions and if he can't be honest with you, I think it's wise to seriously doubt whether or not there's anything left to repair and rebuild.

I don't know where you stand in terms of religious beliefs, but I want to offer you my understanding of Christian forgiveness. All too often, people think Christian forgiveness means "forgetting" or completely trusting again in one who has hurt or harmed us. And that's not at all the definition of Christian forgiveness. Christian forgiveness means letting go of our anger, our bitterness and our desire for revenge against those who have hurt us. It is honestly wishing/praying for God's grace on them. It's not an easy process and it's often counter-intuitive to what we feel inside. It's a conscious decision to ask God to help us to forgive, even when we don't *feel* forgiving. It's also not a "one and done" event. Sometimes, you might think you're past the hurt and bitterness, when it all comes welling up again.

Amofiga is correct in that God does want us to forgive one another. But that is not the same thing as trusting them and nowhere is it written that we must again trust someone who has hurt us. In fact, Christ himself - the most forgiving person ever - didn't trust everyone (John 2:23-25).

Trust is something altogether different. It must be rebuilt over time and it must have actions to back up the words. If someone is unwilling to back up their words with their actions, there's nothing unforgiving about removing that person from your life. In the Purpose Driven Life, Rick Warren says, " You are commanded to forgive, but you are not expected to continue allowing them to hurt you."

I think you've received a lot of great advice already. It's not my place to say whether or not I think you should leave or stay, but I'll just say I think you should proceed slowly, gather as much information as you can and then make the most informed and best decision you can for you and your children. I wish you all the best and FWIW, I'll be lighting a candle for you.

 

[amofiga]

Forgiveness =/= trust.

It's totally possible to forgive someone for the wrong/hurt they have caused you and still not trust them further than you can throw them. Nowhere is it written that you must let that person back into your life.

Can't argue with you. Nobody has to have anyone in their life that they don't want. All I'm saying is that people can and do change, and they can and do learn from mistakes. If a hurt person choses to close someone out of their life, than the person who has caused the hurt also has to accept that as part of his or her "learning process". However, any mistake a person makes is not defacto reason for wiping them out of your life if you are willing to make the effort along with them. For some reason, sexual affairs seem to have a special place in anger and hurt. If you learned that your spouse took drugs, would you dump them immediately or try to help them straighten out? If you learned that they had lost a lot of money gambling, would you divorce them after one instance or try to work with them to get help? One instance of a transgression is not the same as a long term pattern.

In the case of the OP, it does seem that perhaps her husband is unwilling to admit his transgression and unwilling to try to change. It would be unfair for him to assume that his wife should forgive and make a 100% effort to accept him without his strong desire to regain her trust. It's an unfortunate situation, but perhaps in this case, he may not willing to save his marriage and may indeed want out. If this is the case, he should man-up and admit it rather than expecting to string her along and expect her to allow him to tramp all over her.

 

[bailadora]

However, any mistake a person makes is not defacto reason for wiping them out of your life if you are willing to make the effort along with them.

I'd say that all depends upon the individual. We each have our own breaking point and they're not all going to be in alignment. Some individuals may have higher tolerances, while others may have lower. It doesn't mean that those tolerances are right or wrong - just that they are what they are for that individual. There are some things that "I'm sorry" just can't fix and trust can irrevocably broken - even if it's "only" been one transgression. For that reason alone, I think people ought to think long and hard before knowingly and willfully breaking something so fundamental with their partner. Because there's a good possibility you might not get that second chance.

For some reason, sexual affairs seem to have a special place in anger and hurt.

I tend to think it's less about the sex and more about the emotional betrayal. The humiliation of feeling like you weren't enough for your spouse. The humiliation of wondering who else knows about this and wondering if they are laughing about it behind your back. Worse yet, are they shaking their heads in pity? Wondering if your spouse really even loved you to begin with and if so, how in the world could they willingly choose to hurt you like this. Or have they just stayed out of a sense of duty? Wondering what else they have been lying to you about if they can lie to you about something so fundamental.

If you learned that your spouse took drugs, would you dump them immediately or try to help them straighten out? If you learned that they had lost a lot of money gambling, would you divorce them after one instance or try to work with them to get help?

It depends. If he's putting me and my children in danger, I'm out the door. I'll offer what support I can, from a distance, IF he's truly remorseful and sincere about quitting. Whether or not I'd trust him again would depend largely upon his actions. But that's just me. I'm an ISFJ and I tend to put a lot of stock into relationships. Someone else might be done with the whole thing and it's not my place to chastise them if they choose to leave after one transgression.

 

[bob53]

Getting back to the general drift I mentioned earlier:

Assuming that the terms of the relationship you 2 entered when you married was monogamy then those terms have been badly broken.
I say badly as it sounds like he is unwilling to own his choices to break the original terms. All trust is gone.

Any deflecting by trying to blame you for 15 pounds, etc. is only more proof that he is not willing to own his poor choices.

When you got married was there any agreement between the 2 of you that the relationship was over if you gained 15 pounds?
The same goes for all of the other attempts to shift blame for his poor choices.

The cleanest way to approach this relationship issue now it look at anything from now on as a new relationship.

If you were entering a new relationship with him (or anyone else) what would be the terms of your relationship?
This could be monogamy, swinging, poly-amorous or whatever floats your boat.
The next thing is by whom and how are the kids going to be taken care of?

You need to outline what you want in a relationship with ANY other person.

OWN your feelings. OWN your values. DO NOT compromise them or you will never be happy in any relationship regardless of what that relationship looks like.

IT may sound like I am suggesting divorce but I am NOT.

I am purely trying to give some clarity on how to move forward in life in general.
Know what you want in an intimate relationship with another person(s).

Now is your chance to really look inside yourself and get clarity on what is important to you.
All to often we go through life assuming certain things that are important to us but SURPRISE the other person in the relationship does not. (Monogamy in this case right now)

Feel free to PM

 

[amofiga]

I can only agree with what Bailadora and Octobersky have said. I never meant to imply that a simple "I'm sorry, let's forget about it, I'm just a guy" would be sufficient to end the hurt that has been inflicted. Remember, I've been in the middle of the wreck, know that I caused it, had to live with the knowledge that I hurt the person I love. When I said people deserve a second chance, I never meant that it has to be assumed a given. Yes, it has to be earned. As I said, true contrition carries true realization of the wrong that has been done and the true intent to change. If somebody hurts another individual, it takes more than just saying "Im sorry". It takes serious action. Octobersky, if your husband doesn't want to admit what he's done, throw out the phone, go to counseling, work his ass off to re-earn your trust, then I agree that it's not going to work out for you. It's sad, but possibly better in the long run. I can't answer that for you. Certainly nobody here has a right to tell you what sort of life decisions are best for you in the long run. I just know that sometimes a train wreck can result in better tracks and a better running train with enough work. However, sometimes, it's just a busted train and nothing can be done to fix it. We all wish you the best for you.

 

[octobersky]

There are some things that "I'm sorry" just can't fix and trust can irrevocably broken - even if it's "only" been one transgression. For that reason alone, I think people ought to think long and hard before knowingly and willfully breaking something so fundamental with their partner. Because there's a good possibility you might not get that second chance.

I tend to think it's less about the sex and more about the emotional betrayal. The humiliation of feeling like you weren't enough for your spouse. The humiliation of wondering who else knows about this and wondering if they are laughing about it behind your back. Worse yet, are they shaking their heads in pity? Wondering if your spouse really even loved you to begin with and if so, how in the world could they willingly choose to hurt you like this. Or have they just stayed out of a sense of duty? Wondering what else they have been lying to you about if they can lie to you about something so fundamental.

Thank you. I question giving him his second chance because he wants me to deal with his betrayal his way. He thinks he should be allowed a voice in how I grieve and deal with his betrayal. He says if I look at phone bills, texts or most anything, I am stuck in the past. After my latest discovery, I realize he protests me looking and snooping because he is still hiding things and lying to me. He tries to turn it around on me and say I'm not trying to work to improve our marriage, but in reality he is trying to keep his affair going and keep me off his trail.

The emotional betrayal is considerably more painful than the sex could ever be. The humiliation and mental gymnastics of wondering what our friends and family think is torture. Do they assume I am a lousy wife, incapable of keeping my husband happy?

I want to thank each of you that has reached out to me via PM. Your stories and kind words mean a lot.

 

[subwannabe]

You just need to get this over with. The quicker the better. He will continue and he will also continue trying to manipulate the situation into it being all your fault. He has zero remorse.

 

[amofiga]

Thank you. I question giving him his second chance because he wants me to deal with his betrayal his way. He thinks he should be allowed a voice in how I grieve and deal with his betrayal. He says if I look at phone bills, texts or most anything, I am stuck in the past. After my latest discovery, I realize he protests me looking and snooping because he is still hiding things and lying to me. He tries to turn it around on me and say I'm not trying to work to improve our marriage, but in reality he is trying to keep his affair going and keep me off his trail.

The emotional betrayal is considerably more painful than the sex could ever be. The humiliation and mental gymnastics of wondering what our friends and family think is torture. Do they assume I am a lousy wife, incapable of keeping my husband happy?

I want to thank each of you that has reached out to me via PM. Your stories and kind words mean a lot.

You are a perceptive person. Yes, he's going to try to manipulate and control you and the situation. I hate to say it, but I sort of tried that but was told "no dice". The third party counseling thing is the only way a guy who is trying to weedle out of this is going to be forced to truly look at himself. Trust me, I know. For months, I had to agree to "check in" like a adolescent when I was out of the house for more than an hour. It was what was necessary to make sure my whereabouts were known to help to rebuild some level of trust. Checking up on phone calls, credit card charges, etc is going to have to be part of the process if he's sincere. My wallet and briefcase had to become an open book. Inspection if you will, for phone numbers, notes, etc. It made me feel like a teenager that had been caught with pot, but it was necessary.

He needs to truly recognize that it's NOT all your fault. Owning the damage is necessary if it is to work. If he can't find the empathy to understand that, It won't work. Hopefully friends and family haven't been brought into the equation and won't be unless divorce becomes the only alternative. Friends and family will only muddy the water. This is between you and your husband.

 

[KierstH12]

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[heavyhitter01]

Remember, you are not to blame for his affair. He does not get to turn this into what you could have done to make him happy and faithful. The issue lies with him, not you.

Amen.

If you are already in counseling but he is STILL trying to carry on his affair and hide it from you, then he's not even trying. He's not taking counseling seriously. It's still all about "me me me" for him.

That's why he's blaming YOU for not being the man he's supposed to be -- he isn't even close to taking full responsibility for his actions.

Until that changes, counseling won't matter. Nothing you say will matter. He's in his own little world, and he's determined to keep it going. He will have a wake-up call at some point, but it won't be until he feels some sort of loss from what he's doing. Right now, he honestly believes he can have everything he wants if he just manages to get the deception right.

It sounds like there is little you can do but confront him at a time of your choosing (I liked the idea of confronting him with the phone in front of the counselor -- because he might try to bullshit you, but he likely won't be able to bullshit the counselor), and in the meantime, make some decisions on where to go from here.

Remember: The ball is in YOUR court now.

 

[njlauren]

Thank you. I question giving him his second chance because he wants me to deal with his betrayal his way. He thinks he should be allowed a voice in how I grieve and deal with his betrayal. He says if I look at phone bills, texts or most anything, I am stuck in the past. After my latest discovery, I realize he protests me looking and snooping because he is still hiding things and lying to me. He tries to turn it around on me and say I'm not trying to work to improve our marriage, but in reality he is trying to keep his affair going and keep me off his trail.

The emotional betrayal is considerably more painful than the sex could ever be. The humiliation and mental gymnastics of wondering what our friends and family think is torture. Do they assume I am a lousy wife, incapable of keeping my husband happy?

I want to thank each of you that has reached out to me via PM. Your stories and kind words mean a lot.

Trust your gut instincts on this one, and from what I am reading, you are doing fine. Your husband is the one who has cheated, he is the one that has betrayed you, and all his claims of it is your fault, etc, are standard with cheaters, they create a giant amount of backfilling to help them deal with the guilt of cheating (very few cheaters are sociopaths, they know they are hurting the other person, and they do feel guilt), they are telling themselves it is okay to cheat because their spouse isn't x, doesn't do y, etc....and that is bullshit, pure and simple.

Telling you that you are living in the past is even more bullshit, it isn't the past, because he is still cheating and even if today he told you it is over, I am done with that, etc, you still aren't past it and he knows that, what he wants is to throw you off the trail with his bullshit so he can keep on with the other woman and have you not know about it..if he tells you that again, tell him he is the one living in the past, he is acting like the naughty little boy trying to pull one over on mommy and giggling about it with his friends, rather then acting like a man and owning up to what he did and working towards that future. I know I sound harsh, but I have heard this bullshit before, and it is just that, have heard it from guys I know who have cheated, and believe me, I don't mince words with them either.

To be honest, either he will finally face up to what he did and act like a mensch, as another poster said they did, willing to do anything to get back into your graces and for you to trust again,nothing can happen. He is doing exactly what you cannot do in a reconciliation, he wants to go back to the old relationship, were you are trusting wifey and he can do what he wants, and that won't fly; if you guys are going to make it, it will need to be a new one, and he is gonna have to show you he is a new man for the new relationship. He will tell you you are ruining the marriage, he will tell you you are being unreasonable, treating him like child, not owning up to your part in this, but that is a whiny child trying to give 10,000 excuses why he didn't do his homework. Everyone has shortcomings, everyone at times can take a partner for granted, can let themselves go, get tied up in their own world, it happens, we are human and do things we don't even realize are bothering the other person....but nothing, I mean nothing, justifies what he is doing, if you are willing to accept that as part of the why he did it, to understand, that is okay, but that doesn't change one iota that he did cheat and that is all his, and he needs to be a man and own up to it.

A good counselor would give him crap if he pulled that in a session, hopefully you have one, if not, another piece of advice, talk to people and find a no nonsense one who confronts the crap rather then shovels it.

I wish you well, I think you already are finding your place of strength and understanding, now use that to get what you need, whatever that is, and remember, you have the high ground and you have the gun batteries, not him, and he is gonna need to convince you the white flag is a genuine attempt at peace, not subterfuge

 

[KierstH12]

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[octobersky]

Thank you, to all of you. Coming to this thread to read and be reminded of what to look for and what to do gives me strength. I feel like I am in a fog most days.

Earlier in the thread one of you talked about being able to surf the web without it showing up in his history. If I needed or wanted to do that, how do I do it? I need to search for counselors, lawyers and other things.

Thanks again for all of your help.

 

[amofiga]

Thank you, to all of you. Coming to this thread to read and be reminded of what to look for and what to do gives me strength. I feel like I am in a fog most days.

Earlier in the thread one of you talked about being able to surf the web without it showing up in his history. If I needed or wanted to do that, how do I do it? I need to search for counselors, lawyers and other things.

Thanks again for all of your help.

There is a button in one of the tool bars in the later versions of Internet Explorer (probably sort of upper right of your screen) called "Safety". If you click on it, you will see a menue that includes something called "In Private Browsing". Move down and click on it. It will open a new page with the term "In Private" up by the URL (address) line. As long as you surf via the "in private" page whether by URL or by google, it won't show up in your history. You can also get to the In Private page via "tools"or hitting control-shif-P. If you have any questions, PM me.

It might actually be a good idea to visit a lawyer who specializes in divorce proceedings once you locate one in your area. Even if your hubby finds out, it might be good and would shock the shit out of him to really make him want work on this issue with you if indeed that's what he wants as well. Even after my wife and I started into counseling, I learned from her that she had consulted with a lawyer just in case things didn't work out. If he truly wants to save your marriage, this knowledge that you are serious about moving on and that you aren't going to let him manipulate you, will make him see the light big time. I lived with a lot of denial at first and thought maybe things would sort of just "blow over' naturally. Then I had to wake up, grow up, and see that we were headed for a crash unless we both grabbed the wheel and worked together.

Please, if this starts to work out positively for you either way, let me know. It would be good to know that you're heading into the rest of your life with some potentially smoother sailing. I know some people say it's hopeless, but it's only hopeless if you both don't try like a son of a bitch. It will be the hardest thing your marriage has to face.

 

[KierstH12]

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[octobersky]

Thank you, amofiga and KierstH12. I am using it now.