I feel for non-English speakers

[Z_TheWriter]

Only if you pronounce the following word wrongly.

An 'erb?
An 'istory?

FFS.

From Merriam-Webster:
You should use a when the word that follows sounds like it begins with a consonant (‘a dog,’ ‘a balloon’). You should use an if the word that follows sounds like it begins with a vowel (‘an ant,’ ‘an elevator’). Remember that sometimes a word will begin with a vowel but it sounds like a consonant (‘a one-time deal’); in this case you should still use a, rather than an. And in some cases a word will start with a consonant but it sounds like a vowel (’an hour’); in this case you should still use an, rather than a.

Herb and History are indeed tricky due to drift and regional differences. Some pronounce it exactly like you wrote. Some would say 'a herb', 'a history'.

 

[Writer61]

I've been editing for non-native speakers - educated professionals with a good command of English - for two and a half decades, and they always get it wrong. Because the simple rule they're taught is "if it starts with a vowel". They don't get it wrong when speaking, only when writing. And that's because they think in letters, not sounds.

The exceptions are the words that don't sound like they're spelled.

You must be translating into US English.

 

[YmaOHyd]

Only if you pronounce the following word wrongly.

An 'erb?
An 'istory?

FFS.

In US English it's standard to leave the 'h' in Herb silent. The silent 'h' in history (and hospital and hotel and several other words) is an acceptable variant in Commonwealth English and frequently is a marker of social class or formality.

 

[Writer61]

From Merriam-Webster:
You should use a when the word that follows sounds like it begins with a consonant (‘a dog,’ ‘a balloon’). You should use an if the word that follows sounds like it begins with a vowel (‘an ant,’ ‘an elevator’). Remember that sometimes a word will begin with a vowel but it sounds like a consonant (‘a one-time deal’); in this case you should still use a, rather than an. And in some cases a word will start with a consonant but it sounds like a vowel (’an hour’); in this case you should still use an, rather than a.

Herb and History are indeed tricky due to drift and regional differences. Some pronounce it exactly like you wrote. Some would say 'a herb', 'a history'.

Thanks for the quote.

I withdraw my previous statement (although it is a good rough guide), but the inability of Americans to pronounce herb and history remains.

 

[MrPixel]

From what I remember of my German in school there are clues for their genders too.

Like "Der Wienerschnitzel", the hot dog chain restaurant prior to 1980, versus "die wienerschnitzel", with the correct article. "Der", "die", and "das" were not particularly hard to remember. And all nouns were capitalized. What's with that?

 

[Writer61]

In US English it's standard to leave the 'h' in Herb silent. The silent 'h' in history (and hospital and hotel and several other words) is an acceptable variant in Commonwealth English and frequently is a marker of social class or formality.

'erb is certainly a marker of class. 'ospital and 'otel are even worse.

 

[Z_TheWriter]

Thanks for the quote.

I withdraw my previous statement (although it is a good rough guide), but the inability of Americans to pronounce herb and history remains.

Just gonna point out that I have heard more than one Brit go 'an historic' fully pronouncing the h.

Glass houses.

 

[Writer61]

Just gonna point out that I have heard more than one Brit go 'an historic' fully pronouncing the h.

Glass houses.

Not me. My glass house remains intact.

 

[Off_base]

It's a busy day at the pompous ass awards office

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Just gonna point out that I have heard more than one Brit go 'an historic' fully pronouncing the h.

Glass houses.

In at least one case, that was a Minister being given a speech to read, cleared by their staff, and then messing it up.

'erb is certainly a marker of class. 'ospital and 'otel are even worse.

Depends whether you're working class and substituting a glottal stop for the H, or upper middle/upper class and demonstrating that you know the words are French - and you're probably over eighty.

Agatha Christie was the last author I know to write 'an hôtel' or 'an herb'. I've heard an hotel from a few very elderly posh chaps.

 

[millamomud]

One of my favorite rules from learning English in university is the subject verb inversion with adverbs of negative restriction

 

[StillStunned]

You must be translating into US English.

What?

 

[Writer61]

What?

What I said.

 

[Writer61]

In at least one case, that was a Minister being given a speech to read, cleared by their staff, and then messing it up.

Depends whether you're working class and substituting a glottal stop for the H, or upper middle/upper class and demonstrating that you know the words are French - and you're probably over eighty.

Agatha Christie was the last author I know to write 'an hôtel' or 'an herb'. I've heard an hotel from a few very elderly posh chaps.

In English, there are plenty of words with French roots; writing/pronouncing them as such is a stuck-up affectation which should be avoided unless writing a story set in earlier times.

 

[StillStunned]

What I said.

Because in Britain it would be "an unique situation" and "a honest opinion"?

 

[TheLobster]

subject verb inversion with adverbs of negative restriction

 

[Jorunn]

I, too, feel sorry for non-native speakers/writers, but then again, one of the reasons English is the world's most spoken language is that it is possible to speak it badly and still be understood.

When I worked at a hostel near Geiranger Fjord in Norway, setting up breakfast, it was amazing to communicate with a family from Japan, using English. Many other international travelers I met spoke at least some English.

 

[THBGato]

who are trying to write in this silly language. Today while editing, I changed a word to another that mean pretty much the same thing and are used interchangeably, but because I have, the indefinite article had to be changed. All because of the way it sounds, I think.

with a nervous cry, she -
vice
with an anxious cry, she -

How would a native of some other language, know these ridiculous things?

Clearly, hack here is to make all your characters, including narrator, recent immigrants from Slavic speaking country, and have them all speak like Bond villains with no articles at all.

Some know. Germans would know. Der Die Das

Yeah, I mean, it could be worse. To be honest a/an is not the hardest rule in English. Actually, English grammar is reasonably regular - it's the same auxiliary verb for all verbs, unlike French where you have to learn which ones take être and which avoir. The future forms are really easy, and the progressive aspect doesn't have any irregulars, while irregulars in the past tense tend to follow patterns. It's the spelling and pronunciation that's really screwy about English.

 

[TheLobster]

Actually, English grammar is reasonably regular - it's the same auxiliary verb for all verbs, unlike French where you have to learn which ones take être and which avoir.

German has that wrinkle, too. Some verbs, mostly related to movement, take sein (to be), while most others take haben (to have).

I believe English has some very small residues of this phenomenon as well, in the expressions like "I'm headed to the store."

 

[redgarters]

True, it can be tricky because of the sound vs. letter thing. I sometimes have to think on it a bit.
But then again, some of us have native languages where (for example) we have 16 different versions of the word cat, depending on if it's singular or plural and with or without a definite article tacked on at the end.
And then of course, there are different words for a male or female cat, all with their own 16 different forms.
And the bloody cat is just one of the words in a sentence full of this shit.

 

[NuclearFairy]

Only if you pronounce the following word wrongly.

An 'erb?
An 'istory?

FFS.

Only time I've seen someone from the US pronounce the h in herb is when it's a proper name.

On the other hand, the only time I've seen anyone drop the h when saying history, hotel, or hospital is when watching BBC, or a couple of the Canadian channels that I used to get in. It's all up to regional variants.

 

[THBGato]

I believe English has some very small residues of this phenomenon as well, in the expressions like "I'm headed to the store."

That's because native English speakers insist on creating irregulars in the progressive (aka continuous) aspect. They should say: "I'm heading to the store." (see also: I was sat, instead of I was sitting, and I was stood instead of I was standing.)

 

[TheLobster]

That's because native English speakers insist on creating irregulars in the progressive (aka continuous) aspect. They should say: "I'm heading to the store." (see also: I was sat, instead of I was sitting, and I was stood instead of I was standing.)

Oh, so that's what it is. I always thought it's a passive voice with some implicit reflexivity shenanigans that make the subject and the object of the action the same.

Fortuntately, it doesn't really matter much in the end, since the is vs. was distinction makes the most important part of the tense obvious anyway.

 

[TheLobster]

But then again, some of us have native languages where (for example) we have 16 different versions of the word cat, depending on if it's singular or plural and with or without a definite article tacked on at the end.
And then of course, there are different words for a male or female cat, all with their own 16 different forms.

Only 16? Rookie numbers. The broadest gamut I've seen was this:



I believe our Finnish friends, with their eight hundred seventy two noun cases, might top the above list

 

[Bramblethorn]

What?

There's a certain type of Englishman who finds it comforting to believe that his nation is the arbiter of proper English, and that the varieties of English spoken in the USA are somehow incorrect (as opposed to just different). It appears you're talking to one.