I feel for non-English speakers

[alohadave]

the standard dialect that most books are written in.

Which dialect is that?

 

[Writer61]

To sum up, it's still not rocket science and it doesn't have exceptions; you just transcribe what you would've said.

Some people voice the h, and others don't, so transcriptions of their speech should use 'a' or 'an' as appropriate.

Irrelevant. We're not talking about a particular affectation or vernacular that a character might exhibit (including the character of the narrator), but rather the standard dialect that most books are written in.

Totally relevant, see above.

 

[TheLobster]

Some people voice the h, and others don't, so transcriptions of their speech should use 'a' or 'an' as appropriate.

Not only that, but you'd probably want to vary it within the speech of the same character, based on the cadence and prosody that'd make them either voice or devoice the h. I'm not sure how many editors bother, though.

 

[Writer61]

Not only that, but you'd probably want to vary it within the speech of the same character, based on the cadence and prosody that'd make them either voice or devoice the h. I'm not sure how many editors bother, though.

So there are exceptions.

 

[TheLobster]

So there are exceptions.

...No? It's still the same phonetic rule.

And since I'm tired of arguing the same thing, I hope you'd excuse me for not banging my head against the wall any further. I'm out.

 

[TheArsonist]

Nope, not an exception.

Unstressed syllables get their initial h reduced, making the preceding article smush into the subsequent vowel, but since two vowels dislike being next to each other in speech, you get the extra consonant that turns a into an (it's phenomenon that I'm pretty sure I named upthread, but it escapes me at the moment).

While this is an historical explanation for the exception, it is a matter of fact that "an" is used by some speakers even though they pronounce the word with an initial h (or aspirated n, as the case might be). Therefore it is an exception to any allegedly simple rule. And once you start making exceptions to the exception (arguing that it cannot be "an Hungarian" because you'd end up with two "stuttering n's" – even though that isn't a problem in "an ungainly expression" or account for why we can have "an Hunterian lecture") it becomes ludicrous to insist that it is simple.

 

[old_prof]

My wife just shared this and I thought people here might appreciate it. Its a thread of insulting someone as stupid in many languages.

https://bsky.app/profile/adamcsharp.bsky.social/post/3madowffjqc2r

 

[Writer61]

...No? It's still the same phonetic rule.

And since I'm tired of arguing the same thing, I hope you'd excuse me for not banging my head against the wall any further. I'm out.

sorry.

I accept your point that the transcription rule is the same, but the bigger point is that pronunciation varies.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

On my recent trip to Ireland, I found Irish to be a challenge, by even worse, was when they spoke English. There is so much slang and words that mean other things (to them).

Did you ask someone for a ride?

(A ride in US English - to take someone in your car - a lift, in the UK.
A ride in Irish English - a sexual encounter...)

Other languages have their own pitfalls. Like laufen in German, which means to walk or to run depending on region and context. Cue visiting teens thinking they're being taken for a nice walk in the woods, and suddenly expected to do cross-country running...

 

[StillStunned]

Did you ask someone for a ride?

(A ride in US English - to take someone in your car - a lift, in the UK.
A ride in Irish English - a sexual encounter...)

Dara O'Briain has a bit about all those cooking shows with recipes that call for ghee.

 

[Writer61]

Did you ask someone for a ride?

(A ride in US English - to take someone in your car - a lift, in the UK.
A ride in Irish English - a sexual encounter...)

Other languages have their own pitfalls. Like laufen in German, which means to walk or to run depending on region and context. Cue visiting teens thinking they're being taken for a nice walk in the woods, and suddenly expected to do cross-country running...

Brings a whole new insight into what might happen if you use a ride-hailing app.

 

[Writer61]

Cue visiting teens thinking they're being taken for a nice walk in the woods, and suddenly expected to do cross-country running...

Reminds me of organising a company meeting where colleagues could choose from a variety of outdoor activities. Those who chose mountain-biking were unaware that their guide was an international BMX racer. Which I denied all knowledge of afterwards.