I feel for non-English speakers

[redgarters]

Only 16? Rookie numbers. The broadest gamut I've seen was this:

View attachment 2582085

I believe our Finnish friends, with their eight hundred seventy two noun cases, might top the above list

Agreed. Finnish is the Final Boss of grammar

 

[Bramblethorn]

Agreed. Finnish is the Final Boss of grammar

 

[StillStunned]

There's a certain type of Englishman who finds it comforting to believe that his nation is the arbiter of proper English, and that the varieties of English spoken in the USA are somehow incorrect (as opposed to just different). It appears you're talking to one.

My confusion stemmed from the fact that, as far as I can tell, none of the examples I gave were limited to US English as opposed to UK English, except for the different ways of pronouncing "herb".

To clarify, I'm British myself, albeit a long-time expat. I've spoken British English all my life, and as a professional editor working mostly for non-native clients the US/UK thing is part of my work.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

They don't get it wrong when speaking, only when writing. And that's because they think in letters, not sounds.

I feel called out.

No, really, I feel called out. Here's why: Spanish has a tendency to pronounce the spaces between the words. It's subtle, and even as a native I never noticed that... until I started to learn Galician, and then learned that Galician doesn't do that often. There's the digraph "nh," which is not pronounced like the "nh" in Portuguese, the "nh" in Portuguese is what the "ñ" is for both Spanish and Galician speakers, no, the "nh" in Galician pretty much means to slice the word with a space. Most known word for that is the word "unha," which pronounced sounds like "ung-ah," like instead of being one word is two different words. But then you have words in sentences like "ben o" that, with Spanish pronunciation, you actually denote the space, but in Galician, it's one whole word entirely. This happens due to Spanish's tendency of stressing the strong accent over to the next strong one, while Galician does it to the one that comes before it.

Galician also has some silent letters. The word "Coa" or "Coas" can be written as such, but when spoken, the O is silent.

At least verbs are easier. Galician doesn't use compound verbs, whereas Spanish does.

 

[StillStunned]

I appreciate the difference. My question - still unanswered* - assumed that @StillStunned was translating into US English.

*answered while I was writing this.

I don't translate. I edit texts written in English, mostly by non-native speakers from around Europe.

 

[THBGato]

I feel called out.

No, really, I feel called out

To be fair to you, in Spanish letters and sounds are pretty much the same... you see an 'a', it makes the same sound regardless of what word it's in.

That's the drag about English, even for native speakers.

 

[Writer61]

My confusion stemmed from the fact that, as far as I can tell, none of the examples I gave were limited to US English as opposed to UK English, except for the different ways of pronouncing "herb".

To clarify, I'm British myself, albeit a long-time expat. I've spoken British English all my life, and as a professional editor working mostly for non-native clients the US/UK thing is part of my work.

Fair enough.

 

[TheLobster]

No, really, I feel called out. Here's why: Spanish has a tendency to pronounce the spaces between the words. It's subtle, and even as a native I never noticed that... until I started to learn Galician, and then learned that Galician doesn't do that often. There's the digraph "nh," which is not pronounced like the "nh" in Portuguese, the "nh" in Portuguese is what the "ñ" is for both Spanish and Galician speakers, no, the "nh" in Galician pretty much means to slice the word with a space. Most known word for that is the word "unha," which pronounced sounds like "ung-ah," like instead of being one word is two different words. But then you have words in sentences like "ben o" that, with Spanish pronunciation, you actually denote the space, but in Galician, it's one whole word entirely. This happens due to Spanish's tendency of stressing the strong accent over to the next strong one, while Galician does it to the one that comes before it.

That first phenomenon appears superficially similar to T-swallowing that many English speakers do (some of the Bri'ish variety, but also Americans when they talk about Toron'o).

The second one, though, I haven't seen before. How's that space pronounced? Is it a glottal stop or something else?

 

[Writer61]

There's a certain type of Englishman who finds it comforting to believe that his nation is the arbiter of proper English, and that the varieties of English spoken in the USA are somehow incorrect (as opposed to just different). It appears you're talking to one.

FWIW I appreciate the way that English is spoken around the world (even Strine) by native and non-native speakers. My reference earlier was to the King's English.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

To be fair to you, in Spanish letters and sounds are pretty much the same... you see an 'a', it makes the same sound regardless of what word it's in.

That's the drag about English, even for native speakers.

Inglish wul bi far mor isier if writen laik dis.

Oh in the name of Oblivion, my accent bleeds when I write it like that!

Galician letters and sounds are also the same. It's Portuguese the one that has all the fuckery*, but that's why Galicians themselves call Portuguese "sad Galician." I just call it shitty Spanish because it feels like I'm speaking Spanish while I'm giving a blowjob.

I still like the language though. It's not hard to understand Portuguese if you know Spanish. It's just puzzling at first, that's all, but there are some verbs that I... I just wanted to give up on them... It went to a point in which I asked "how many words do you need to compose a verb, Portuguese?"

* Though to be fair, French is even more anarchic.

That first phenomenon appears superficially similar to T-swallowing that many English speakers do (some of the Bri'ish variety, but also Americans when they talk about Toron'o).

The second one, though, I haven't seen before. How's that space pronounced? Is it a glottal stop or something else?

I don't know how to explain it without actually speaking. In the example I showed with the Galician words "ben o," in Spanish you would read it out loud by saying "BEN o," like having this teeny tiny delay at the N, as if the N gets stuck, and then the word "o" comes out. In Galician proper, "ben o" would be pronounced "beno," no emphasis on the N, thus removing the space. The first phenomenon is correct with the T-swallowing comparison. The second phenomenon is the opposite of that.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

To be fair to you, in Spanish letters and sounds are pretty much the same... you see an 'a', it makes the same sound regardless of what word it's in.

That's the drag about English, even for native speakers.

Phonetic languages. Italian is plenty phonetic, and certain Slavic languages even more so.

 

[Writer61]

Inglish wul bi far mor isier if writen laik dis.

Reminds me of Feersum Endjinn by Iain M Banks, a favourite author, which is written like this. It took me a while to get the voice right in my head.

 

[TheLobster]

In the example I showed with the Galician words "ben o," in Spanish you would read it out loud by saying "BEN o," like having this teeny tiny delay at the N, as if the N gets stuck, and then the word "o" comes out.

I think that’s sandhi. The link here describes the phenomenon in Portuguese but it seems similar to the Spanish one you’re referring.

 

[ColtonWrites]

I am reminded of working in restaurants, where all of my coworkers spoke Spanish.

Except some of them were from Colombia, some were from Mexico, and the rest were from various South American countries. So despite my best efforts, they all sounded different from each other and from the Spanish language classes I took.

I still get cold sweats when I remember walking into the kitchen with a special order and discovering that all the English speakers had gone on break at the same time.
I just needed something heated up and I would sort of wave the plate helplessly and go [in Spanish] "this...to need... more oven? Please?"

And then with the ones who were trying to learn English it was even more fun because they liked to practice on me. Got to explain the difference between "would you like", "do you want", and "do you like" when one of the busboys asked me if I liked the special, and I responded in the affirmative. Then he showed up with a fresh plate for me, in the middle of a rush. ("You said you like!")

 

[KittyOfSteele]

I think that’s sandhi. The link here describes the phenomenon in Portuguese but it seems similar to the Spanish one you’re referring.

YES! That's exactly it! I didn't know there was a word for it.

 

[Bramblethorn]

FWIW I appreciate the way that English is spoken around the world (even Strine) by native and non-native speakers. My reference earlier was to the King's English.

Apologies if I mischaracterised you, but I was going off your reaction to the US pronunciation of "herb":

Only if you pronounce the following word wrongly.

An 'erb?
An 'istory?

FFS.

That didn't come across as "appreciation".

 

[YmaOHyd]

I am reminded of working in restaurants, where all of my coworkers spoke Spanish.

Except some of them were from Colombia, some were from Mexico, and the rest were from various South American countries. So despite my best efforts, they all sounded different from each other and from the Spanish language classes I took.

This is absolutely a feature of American high school and collegiate Spanish instruction, where students learn Castilian Spanish from books and non-native speakers, then do immersion classes with people who speak Spanish in Latin American regional accents. And sometimes it goes the other way -- a friend of mine grew up speaking Spanish in Guatemala, figured he'd take Spanish in college for an easy A and had some minor difficulties adjusting to proper Castilian pronunciations.

 

[Writer61]

Apologies if I mischaracterised you, but I was going off your reaction to the US pronunciation of "herb":

That didn't come across as "appreciation".

I really do appreciate most variations on English, and often code-switch, but 'erb is something that drives me insane.

 

[TheLobster]

I really do appreciate most variations on English, and often code-switch, but 'erb is something that drives me insane.

There’s nothing better to calm the nerves than a hot herbal tea

 

[KittyOfSteele]

I am reminded of working in restaurants, where all of my coworkers spoke Spanish.

Except some of them were from Colombia, some were from Mexico, and the rest were from various South American countries. So despite my best efforts, they all sounded different from each other and from the Spanish language classes I took.

I still get cold sweats when I remember walking into the kitchen with a special order and discovering that all the English speakers had gone on break at the same time.
I just needed something heated up and I would sort of wave the plate helplessly and go [in Spanish] "this...to need... more oven? Please?"

And then with the ones who were trying to learn English it was even more fun because they liked to practice on me. Got to explain the difference between "would you like", "do you want", and "do you like" when one of the busboys asked me if I liked the special, and I responded in the affirmative. Then he showed up with a fresh plate for me, in the middle of a rush. ("You said you like!")

Ah, la hospitalidad Latina. Either you spotted the abuela of the group, or someone understood you wanted more because if you say that you like a meal, rest assured they'll think you want more because you liked it so much. At least that's how we do it here. I believe Colombians are the same.

But yeah, we all speak different, and sound very different.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

thread this like is Vuja De over again all.

 

[Writer61]

There’s nothing better to calm the nerves than a hot herbal tea

You mean a tisanne.

 

[Off_base]

You mean a tisanne.

Is that how the King spells it?

 

[ColtonWrites]

Ah, la hospitalidad Latina. Either you spotted the abuela of the group, or someone understood you wanted more because if you say that you like a meal, rest assured they'll think you want more because you liked it so much. At least that's how we do it here. I believe Colombians are the same.

But yeah, we all speak different, and sound very different.

Okay so based on that video I also worked with many Dominicans.

 

[Writer61]

Is that how the King spells it?

I have no idea, but that is the correct description of an infusion that does not include actual tea (Camellia Sinesis).