I feel pretty!

[gypsy*seer]

Oh well thank you sweetie! That's so nice of you! It really was out of necessity, Barbie houses were and still are, what, fifty or sixty bucks? We couldn't afford that. That's money that was being used to pay the light bill. *laughs*

I once knew a girl who had this gigantic four-story barbie mansion with a real working shower/bath and lights in all the rooms. Oh My God I loved that thing. Matching furniture and dinnerware, the bedroom had a four-poster canopy bed..... It was several hundred dollars, if I can remember correctly what her mom said about it.

I've never heard of "Dawn" dolls, were they like Barbies?

Yup! Only smaller and funkier!

 

[gypsy*seer]

Yes, but tiny!

http://i2.iofferphoto.com/img/1147417200/_i/12047671/1.jpg

http://www.freewebs.com/pammyj1968/Gun%20Cabinet.jpg

You've got it DOWN, FF..I have that doll with that outfit...plus a couple more!
(been collecting for awhile.....)

 

[terraform]

Yes, but tiny!

http://i2.iofferphoto.com/img/1147417200/_i/12047671/1.jpg

http://www.freewebs.com/pammyj1968/Gun%20Cabinet.jpg

I love them! I have a few I found at a secondhand shop. They're so precious.

 

[Marquis]

My point is, context and intention have been totally thrown out the window and dismissed

Alright, let's take a look at the context.

I think they're a godsend. I have really chinky-looking eyes (almost like a monolid...like Asian people have!) and falsies help open them up and make them look bigger.

You're talking about "chinky-looking eyes" almost as a deformity, or at least an unfortunate physical characteristic that benefits from correction.

How is this not insulting, even without the slur?

Jesus Christ, where are you from? Look at this sentence!

I have really chinky-looking eyes (almost like a monolid...like Asian people have!)

but no matter how many times I've said that I didn't mean it in an offensive way, this conversation continues on as people tell me over and over and over that "well someone's going to find that word offensive you know" and yet it was said to death already. This is page five. I know now that someone finds it offense. That's been made painfully clear. Let's move on.

Fact is, I never called anyone a racial slur. I didn't say, "I hate Asian people." I never never even implied it in the slightest little bitty bit. I didn't say it to anyone but myself, in a non-offensive way. End of story.

Nobody cares whether you meant to be offensive. The shit was offensive. I don't care if there is an Asian poster in here who wasn't offended. I was offended.

If you want "end of story move on its over blah blah blah" just fucking apologize. Say, I fucked up, won't happen again.

Say it.

 

[Homburg]

I've had the very interesting experience of being singled out for not being white on the mainland and yet being too white in Hawaii. In Hawaii, it's more about in-group dynamics first, then about your racial background. Have to say, being told I was too white to be a student leader by a high school teacher was the most shocking case of racism I've personally encountered, and I lived on an AF base during the tale end of the Vietnam war (I was routinely involved in fist fights in daycare because quite a few kids thought Asians were fair game - won all of them, too ).

The most blatant I encountered was having a rep of the North Carolina Dept of Education tell me, "But honey, you're not white." because grandma was Japanese. At ten or eleven years old, it was news to me.

--

When a bunch of different Asian-American kids get together, the discussions are sure interesting. Growing up in California, I had a different perspective of the way Japanese Americans were treated. But I understand what you're saying.

That I can see. Whole lot more Asian-Americans on the Left Coast. Thus more impact.

Have you read My Year in Meats? You should check it out. I think you'd like it.

After googling it, yeah, I probably would. I'll keep my eyes open for it. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[Keroin]

I’m getting used to living in places where I’m the visible minority. And I don’t live in a gated community or on an army base or in a mansion on the hill, surrounded by a moat. I live in the ‘hood. Sometimes people call me names. That doesn’t bother me. I care more about how I am treated than what I am called, behind my back or otherwise. But then, my skin is pretty thick.

I don’t believe Satin meant any offense. I think she’s made that clear. I’m sure she feels bad that she did offend.

I have a good friend who is half Chinese and half white – obviously so. I’ll call her E. I have a friend who is Jamaican and very black; I’ll call him J. He and E are also friends. Here’s a rough transcript of a conversation had while a bunch of us were snowmobiling one day:

J: “Snow sucks. This shit is for Eskimos.”
E: “Inuit.”
J: “What?”
E: “They prefer to be called Inuit, they think the word Eskimo is offensive.”
J: “Whatever, same difference.”
E: “OK, nigger.”
Crowd: “Oooooooo”

However, I have heard E say things like, “Let’s go out for Chink food tonight.”

My best friend is black. She will commonly say to me, “Peace out my nigga.” To which I respond, “Back atcha my person of African ancestry.” This is the same person who will wig out if she detects someone is being racist toward her. Go figure.

I think it’s complicated.

Also, Marquis, backing someone into a corner and demanding an apology seems pointless to me. A) If they do apologize, it’s under duress so what does it really mean? B) They may feel like apologizing but won’t because you’ve made them defensive and because of reason A.

My two cents (that's 1.75 cents USD)

 

[00Syd]

I think it’s complicated.

It is complicated. Very complicated. Lots of people have so many different feelings and opinions regarding what is and what isn't okay to say. A lot of people have no problem joking about race with friends, and do not find offense when friends make fun of their ancestry. Other people find it offensive no matter who says it, and others don't find it offensive no matter what.

It just seems, to me, that it is inappropriate to assume that other people will have the same relationship with a potentially volatile word as you do. That's why there are things I say when I'm with friends and family, who I know see things the way I do, but that I wouldn't say in "polite" ("mixed," "kosher," etc.) company.

I feel like to not be aware that others might have a different relationship with a racial epithet than you, is to not be aware of the people around you and to not be aware of them as people with feelings. To then insist that it doesn't matter what other people might think, since you didn't mean it the way they might take it, is insensitive at best.

Just my opinion on the matter.

I really value empathy as a trait in others.

ETA: I could just be overly sensitive to racial issues at the moment due to the multi-cultural literature class I'm in the middle of right now, but I like to think that it's not over sensitivity, and just the same awareness of others that I've always had.

 

[satindesire]

Alright, let's take a look at the context.



You're talking about "chinky-looking eyes" almost as a deformity, or at least an unfortunate physical characteristic that benefits from correction.

How is this not insulting, even without the slur?

Jesus Christ, where are you from? Look at this sentence!


Nobody cares whether you meant to be offensive. The shit was offensive. I don't care if there is an Asian poster in here who wasn't offended. I was offended.

If you want "end of story move on its over blah blah blah" just fucking apologize. Say, I fucked up, won't happen again.

Say it.

No. You can call your sub a dumb nigger bitch, and you can call me an idiot, and a "silly caucasian girl" AS an insult, and no one says shit to you.

Because you're black, you can call another black person a nigger? Oh, you are such a hypocrit it's disgusting.

I wish you weren't an admin. I so, so desperately want to put you on ignore so I don't have to read any more of your arrogant self masturbatory posts.

 

[Marquis]

Also, Marquis, backing someone into a corner and demanding an apology seems pointless to me. A) If they do apologize, it’s under duress so what does it really mean? B) They may feel like apologizing but won’t because you’ve made them defensive and because of reason A.

I demand an apology for this observation!!!

 

[Homburg]

My friends and I are very casual about race around each other, specifically with the races represented. In my core group of friends, there's a guy that's half-cuban, myself, one woman that's half-Japanese, a half-chinese girl, and one guy that is half jewish and half Puerto-Riqueno. As a result, Asian comments and Latino ones are fair game, with the Asians and Latinos making the most raw comments about themselves. The white guys catch all sorts of hell though. They deserve it too.

 

[satindesire]

My friends and I are very casual about race around each other, specifically with the races represented. In my core group of friends, there's a guy that's half-cuban, myself, one woman that's half-Japanese, a half-chinese girl, and one guy that is half jewish and half Puerto-Riqueno. As a result, Asian comments and Latino ones are fair game, with the Asians and Latinos making the most raw comments about themselves. The white guys catch all sorts of hell though. They deserve it too.

Uh ohes! You better quit doing that and apologize right away before you offend someone!

 

[00Syd]

Uh ohes! You better quit doing that and apologize right away before you offend someone!

I think your missing the distinction between making those sorts of comments within a group of friends who are comfortable with it (as Homburg is doing with his friends and as you said you do with your husband), and making those sorts of comments in a larger group of people who might not all feel the same way.

 

[Keroin]

I demand an apology for this observation!!!

Sorry.

It is complicated. Very complicated. Lots of people have so many different feelings and opinions regarding what is and what isn't okay to say. A lot of people have no problem joking about race with friends, and do not find offense when friends make fun of their ancestry. Other people find it offensive no matter who says it, and others don't find it offensive no matter what.

It just seems, to me, that it is inappropriate to assume that other people will have the same relationship with a potentially volatile word as you do. That's why there are things I say when I'm with friends and family, who I know see things the way I do, but that I wouldn't say in "polite" ("mixed," "kosher," etc.) company.

I feel like to not be aware that others might have a different relationship with a racial epithet than you, is to not be aware of the people around you and to not be aware of them as people with feelings. To then insist that it doesn't matter what other people might think, since you didn't mean it the way they might take it, is insensitive at best.

Just my opinion on the matter.

I really value empathy as a trait in others.

ETA: I could just be overly sensitive to racial issues at the moment due to the multi-cultural literature class I'm in the middle of right now, but I like to think that it's not over sensitivity, and just the same awareness of others that I've always had.

You'll notice I mentioned my response to my best friend's "Peace out nigga". I don't condemn anyone for their comments but I am ultra, ultra careful about what I say. Not because of the repercussions but because I care about the feelings of others and thus always err on the side of caution.

Uh ohes! You better quit doing that and apologize right away before you offend someone!

Miss S, you know I love you and I'm in your corner but you are controversy magnet. Syd made some great points.

 

[Netzach]

I don't equate Lit with my inner circle of rt peeps who can call me anything they want and welcome the same. I'm like syd in this respect.

 

[00Syd]

Sorry.



You'll notice I mentioned my response to my best friend's "Peace out nigga". I don't condemn anyone for their comments but I am ultra, ultra careful about what I say. Not because of the repercussions but because I care about the feelings of others and thus always err on the side of caution.



Miss S, you know I love you and I'm in your corner but you are controversy magnet. Syd made some great points.

Bold part: Exactly.

 

[Netzach]

Sorry.



You'll notice I mentioned my response to my best friend's "Peace out nigga". I don't condemn anyone for their comments but I am ultra, ultra careful about what I say. Not because of the repercussions but because I care about the feelings of others and thus always err on the side of caution.

This is a really good example of how someone, your best friend in this case, can create a sense of intimacy because it's such a sensitive and charged term - it's a real "I see you as my backup, as *of me*" It's a display of trust, and usually a high level of it. And I'm sure she thinks your response is touching and funny. Just a hunch.

Alfre Woodard's husband wrote a really interesting little ditty about just this on Huffington post.

 

[satindesire]

I guess I'm the kind of person who does feel like ya'll (were) my close circle of friends, and being the sort of person who is honestly themselves and comfortable, I didn't even begin to think that anything I said would be offensive to people who I considered my pals.

*scoffs* I really should stop thinking that people online care. This is twice I've been proven wrong.

 

[Homburg]

I don't equate Lit with my inner circle of rt peeps who can call me anything they want and welcome the same. I'm like syd in this respect.

I'm not going to stop joking on white men. Call me a hater if you must.

 

[Keroin]

This is a really good example of how someone, your best friend in this case, can create a sense of intimacy because it's such a sensitive and charged term - it's a real "I see you as my backup, as *of me*" It's a display of trust, and usually a high level of it. And I'm sure she thinks your response is touching and funny. Just a hunch.

Alfre Woodard's husband wrote a really interesting little ditty about just this on Huffington post.

Yeah, and she loves it when I bust out my hip hop moves! LOL.

 

[00Syd]

I guess I'm the kind of person who does feel like ya'll (were) my close circle of friends, and being the sort of person who is honestly themselves and comfortable, I didn't even begin to think that anything I said would be offensive to people who I considered my pals.

*scoffs* I really should stop thinking that people online care. This is twice I've been proven wrong.

If I didn't care, I wouldn't have put as much thought and care into my responses as I did.

 

[Marquis]

In some sense, I can feel your pain SatinD.

Sometimes this time of thing is confusing. I can't say I think this particular situation is all that confusing, but certainly they can be.

My mom was a black Haitian. My dad is a white Jew. I find that most black people don't want to hear me say nigga, but many don't mind. I think you kind of earn the right to say nigga by how much you've suffered at the hand of the stereotype itself. Same thing with Jews. It's all based on peoples perception of me, which I've come fairly accustomed to reading.

Sometimes people do get offended though. Then you have to choose if you're going to apologize or offer the offended party the opportunity to suck your cock.

Sometimes you don't know what to do, it's confusing stuff.

 

[Marquis]

Sorry.

You are forgiven my child.

 

[JMohegan]

I'm not going to stop joking on white men. Call me a hater if you must.

I probably wouldn't consider you a hater.

I actually wouldn't call you anything, outright. But the jokes would leave an impression of you, of course. As bitter, maybe. Insecure or resentful, perhaps.

You may have other reasons for "joking on white men," but I don't know you well enough to know what they are. Which is really the point, as I see it.

 

[Marquis]

I probably wouldn't consider you a hater.

I actually wouldn't call you anything, outright. But the jokes would leave an impression of you, of course. As bitter, maybe. Insecure or resentful, perhaps.

You may have other reasons for "joking on white men," but I don't know you well enough to know what they are. Which is really the point, as I see it.

Funny you should say this.

You know, I do think there is a certain type of person that feels the need to make a lot of racial jokes and I tend to think it stems from some insecurity as well.

I hear about all these mixed race groups of friends that are calling each other racial slurs and I can't help but feel like it comes from a place of discomfort. I guess if that helps it's not a bad thing.

We all have insecurities. I hung out with a mostly black crowd in college who were very insecure about what white people thought of them. They were always reacting to it in some way or another, a great variety of different ways, but always reacting nonetheless.

 

[satindesire]

In some sense, I can feel your pain SatinD.

Sometimes this time of thing is confusing. I can't say I think this particular situation is all that confusing, but certainly they can be.

My mom was a black Haitian. My dad is a white Jew. I find that most black people don't want to hear me say nigga, but many don't mind. I think you kind of earn the right to say nigga by how much you've suffered at the hand of the stereotype itself. Same thing with Jews. It's all based on peoples perception of me, which I've come fairly accustomed to reading.

Sometimes people do get offended though. Then you have to choose if you're going to apologize or offer the offended party the opportunity to suck your cock.

Sometimes you don't know what to do, it's confusing stuff.

Of course this is just my opinion and everyone is entitled to theirs, but I don't think it's right that you're basically saying YOU can hurl racial slurs but -I- can't.

That's fair in your eyes because you're black and I'm not?

Do you apologize to people who get offended if you say the word 'nigger'? Do you think everyone regardless of race should be treated the same? Do you think racial slurs should be either totally outright banned as what's okay to say or do you think there's context and intention to be considered?

Because it seemed in your eyes you were totally okay with saying something offensive, even though you found it offensive when I said something, though I was doing that in MY eyes, was much less worse than what you did.