I feel pretty!

[JMohegan]

I certainly respect the "don't speak on my behalf" response. That's cool. I shall search my closet for lame ass white savior girl cape and letter S. It's food for thought and a legitimate riposte.

I respect that, too, and agree that white savior syndrome is a fair critique, in some cases.

As far as I can tell, if there are Chinese Americans reading this thread, he/she/they have yet to comment on use of the word chinky in this context. Which is why I linked to the OCA site - indirectly (and, albeit remotely) enabling OCA members to speak for themselves.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

From where I'm sitting, this has nothing to do with epicanthic folds and everything to do with use of the word "chinky."

Chink, wop, nigger, kike, whatever. As you say, take your pick.

Those are pejorative terms with a history of extremely offensive use, targeting people of Chinese, Italian, Jewish, and African American descent.

If I hear a non-member of those racial/ethnic groups using one of those words, outside the context of close friends with a mutual understanding addressing each other in private, I'm gonna speak up.

If I don't speak up, I consider myself to be giving an implicit nod to the alleged social acceptability of the terms.

Congrats for using words that supposedly were so offensive they shouldn't be mentioned.

As for selective hand slaps for "non-member" use, congrats # two for the hypocrisy. If a word is so bad it shouldn't be used because of the historical usage behind that word by one or more groups, it shouldn't be used by any. If not, you're opening the door for offensive co-opted use of a word like gay by the aforementioned morons that came up with or use the latest slang term.

As for guilt/righteous indignation/whatever over a supposed implicit nod, congrats on the hat-trick. Since you're assumedly a non-member of the group who's to say we chinks, japs, slants, and gooks haven't extended special dispensation to our land bridge crossing brothers of other mothers? Can you see how ridiculously convoluted we can take this in one helluva hurry?

i understand the original eyebrow raise from you JM. On a much more knot in my jock day, i may have said something, but it usually just isn't worth my time if it even rustles the canvas. i understand the subsequent comments from you Netz to include those i just caught. (Dammit woman, you edited after i checked again) i'd agree save none of those that admittedly could take direct offense have. With a billion plus of us out there, we're either kink diluted and not on this board, or simply not offended enough to pitch a bitch. And a mea culpa for not properly addressing the Divine Ms N before she hit the edit button. Agreed on most counts darlin'. Although we could really go there with yet another tangent involving deliberately probed mindfuckery twists.

 

[Netzach]

Congrats for using words that supposedly were so offensive they shouldn't be mentioned.

As for selective hand slaps for "non-member" use, congrats # two for the hypocrisy. If a word is so bad it shouldn't be used because of the historical usage behind that word by one or more groups, it shouldn't be used by any. If not, you're opening the door for offensive co-opted use of a word like gay by the aforementioned morons that came up with or use the latest slang term.

As for guilt/righteous indignation/whatever over a supposed implicit nod, congrats on the hat-trick. Since you're assumedly a non-member of the group who's to say we chinks, japs, slants, and gooks haven't extended special dispensation to our land bridge crossing brothers of other mothers? Can you see how ridiculously convoluted we can take this in one helluva hurry?

i understand the original eyebrow raise from you JM. On a much more knot in my jock day, i may have said something, but it usually just isn't worth my time if it even rustles the canvas. i understand the subsequent comments from you Netz to include those i just caught. (Dammit woman, you edited after i checked again) i'd agree save none of those that admittedly could take direct offense have. With a billion plus of us out there, we're either kink diluted and not on this board, or simply not offended enough to pitch a bitch. And a mea culpa for not properly addressing the Divine Ms N before she hit the edit button. Agreed on most counts darlin'. Although we could really go there with yet another tangent involving deliberately probed mindfuckery twists.

Sorry, I wish I could formulate a thought in one go.

This is like everyone's top 10 peeve. Good thing I'm not a spankee.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Sorry, I wish I could formulate a thought in one go.

This is like everyone's top 10 peeve. Good thing I'm not a spankee.

Don't worry about it. i usually re-read my own trash so many times before posting in a vain attempt at clarity i usually miss the boat on timeliness.

OK, tell me you didn't just go there.

 

[Netzach]

Don't worry about it. i usually re-read my own trash so many times before posting in a vain attempt at clarity i usually miss the boat on timeliness.

OK, tell me you didn't just go there.

Honey in what this thread is now, I ain't going there if you paid me.

 

[JMohegan]

Congrats for using words that supposedly were so offensive they shouldn't be mentioned.

As for selective hand slaps for "non-member" use, congrats # two for the hypocrisy. If a word is so bad it shouldn't be used because of the historical usage behind that word by one or more groups, it shouldn't be used by any. If not, you're opening the door for offensive co-opted use of a word like gay by the aforementioned morons that came up with or use the latest slang term.

As for guilt/righteous indignation/whatever over a supposed implicit nod, congrats on the hat-trick. Since you're assumedly a non-member of the group who's to say we chinks, japs, slants, and gooks haven't extended special dispensation to our land bridge crossing brothers of other mothers? Can you see how ridiculously convoluted we can take this in one helluva hurry?

i understand the original eyebrow raise from you JM. On a much more knot in my jock day, i may have said something, but it usually just isn't worth my time if it even rustles the canvas. i understand the subsequent comments from you Netz to include those i just caught. i'd agree save none of those that admittedly could take direct offense have. With a billion plus of us out there, we're either kink diluted and not on this board, or simply not offended enough to pitch a bitch.

This isn't a guilt/righteous indignation thing.

This is me trying to respect the efforts of people in various racial or ethnic groups to fight prejudice.

When my perception shifts from the current impression (that the majority of people in those groups appreciate open objections made to the use of racial slurs) to a revised impression (that the majority wants me to ignore them), then I'll shut the fuck up.

No insult intended to you personally, but the fact that one Pacific Islander thinks it's ok for a half white/half Native American woman to use a slur historically directed at Chinese Americans is just not gonna flip that switch.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Honey in what this thread is now, I ain't going there if you paid me.

>wicked grin< ... exactly. Enjoy your day darlin'. Back to the grindstone for me.

 

[FurryFury]

*waves back and blows *



I'd love to hear about your beauty day!

*only here to wave at FF*

I had planned on a really frivolous post for the thread. After all, I hadn't really read the rest of it and was going to talk about my beauty day. Then whilst in the middle of posting, I caught all of the bickering....so I didn't post it.

*head shake*

I think it's really sad that the state of the world today can be judged by the amount of vitrol aimed at someone for a word they didn't mean offensively.

*shrugs*

(And yes, I know, I know...and if I posted my take on it all, I would be called a closet racist or unfeeling or some such...when in reality...a word is a word....and only the emotions attached to that word mean anything at all.)

 

[FurryFury]

What made me feel pretty today?

Luscious new heels I wore to step over a dead horse....

LOL!

You should post a pic!

*chuckle*

 

[FurryFury]

I'm enjoying reading this thread. It's produced some genuinly interesting conversation on an important topic. So much of this forum has been fluff lately.

No offence meant to the original intent of this thread. I like feeling pretty.

No problem. I don't get all upset if a thread diverges. I expect it. Sometimes it turns into something way cool!

 

[Keroin]

I have a new scar! (Yes, this makes me feel pretty). It doesn't have a story as cool as most of the other scars but I still like it.

It happened about three weeks ago, while I was snorkeling in some rough surge, trying to find some Lion fish. Anyway, did a breath hold dive and underestimated the depth and distance a bit. Ended up getting shit kicked by a wave and dragged across some coral, tearing a nice gash out of my left calf.

I felt bad about it because coral is very sensitive. Hope I didn't do any damage!

Anyway, the wound has healed and it's an obvious scar and it matches the one on my right leg where I burned my calf on my scooter tail pipe. Love it.

Oh, and I did see the Lion fish! Three of them.

 

[FurryFury]

Kewl!

Scars can turn me on, sometimes.

*wink*

 

[Homburg]

As for guilt/righteous indignation/whatever over a supposed implicit nod, congrats on the hat-trick. Since you're assumedly a non-member of the group who's to say we chinks, japs, slants, and gooks haven't extended special dispensation to our land bridge crossing brothers of other mothers? Can you see how ridiculously convoluted we can take this in one helluva hurry?

Okay, so my grandma had some ooooold photographs from somewhere of some ancestors of ours, taken from when photography was first brought to Hokkaido. One in particular was of an old chap what still had the family armor and Daito. From what she said, he didn't really get the specifics of photography, but was really interested in the technology (tech-geekery apparently runs back at least a century in the family). Knowing that it was a big deal, he wore the whole thing.

First off, it was an awesome photo (sadly lost to a house fire), and he was this great bushy haired old beast. It was awesome to look that far back in history, realise that I was related to this man, and that I wasn't quite so odd for being a big heavy-set dude. Apparently, the men in my family back then were huge beasts, with bushy hair and and rather (cough) Mongolian looking features. Apparently more than a few washed up on shore and fucked their way into the genetic pool on Hokkaido.

Anyway, it was really interesting a few years later to see some very old pictures of Inuit and Aleut from the dawn of photography. The similarities in print made the similarities in facial structure and build all the more obvious. There were a couple in particular that, given armour, swords, and bushy hair, could've been my great-uncle/whatever many times removed.


--

I have a new scar! (Yes, this makes me feel pretty). It doesn't have a story as cool as most of the other scars but I still like it.

It happened about three weeks ago, while I was snorkeling in some rough surge, trying to find some Lion fish. Anyway, did a breath hold dive and underestimated the depth and distance a bit. Ended up getting shit kicked by a wave and dragged across some coral, tearing a nice gash out of my left calf.

I felt bad about it because coral is very sensitive. Hope I didn't do any damage!

Anyway, the wound has healed and it's an obvious scar and it matches the one on my right leg where I burned my calf on my scooter tail pipe. Love it.

Oh, and I did see the Lion fish! Three of them.

Scars with stories are awesome.

 

[Keroin]

Scars with stories are awesome.

Thanks! I'm very fond of all of them. As for the one that was a mole removal, I tell people it's a gunshot wound and they usually believe me.

 

[Homburg]

No insult intended to you personally, but the fact that one Pacific Islander thinks it's ok for a half white/half Native American woman to use a slur historically directed at Chinese Americans is just not gonna flip that switch.

Well, while I'm agreeing that the switch is not likely to be flipped, it's more than one person. It's anecdotal, but, as I said, I grew up around a lot of Asian and part Asian kids, and have a goodly number in my circle of friends today. In my personal experience, those sort of slurs just aren't taken as badly. And, given that I've got relatives of the same descent in different generations, these anecdotes are not just from my generation.

Hell, my grandma would just give the bug-look to anyone that said anything like that. Those sorts of 'slurs' just don't have that much impact.

And, honestly, people use "chink" and its' derivatives for more than just Chinese. Because, y'know, all Asians look alike. So, yeah, I've been called "chink" before, and I wouldn't be surprised if AA has had it, or something similar that has fuck-all to do with his actual ancestry directed at him. So maybe I'm not Chinese, but that doesn't prevent people from attempting to use that term as a pejorative on me.

 

[Homburg]

Thanks! I'm very fond of all of them. As for the one that was a mole removal, I tell people it's a gunshot wound and they usually believe me.

With you, I don't doubt that

 

[LilyBart]

Thanks! I'm very fond of all of them. As for the one that was a mole removal, I tell people it's a gunshot wound and they usually believe me.

Hmmm...I have a few of those (mole removal) scars too.

Although in my case, the bullet(s) would have been a bit on the wee side. I think I need an alternate explanation. Dart gun, maybe? The old "nail in a rubber band slingshot" story?

Other ideas?

~LB
(who will feel very pretty tomorrow afternoon after her pedicure appointment)

 

[JMohegan]

Well, while I'm agreeing that the switch is not likely to be flipped, it's more than one person. It's anecdotal, but, as I said, I grew up around a lot of Asian and part Asian kids, and have a goodly number in my circle of friends today. In my personal experience, those sort of slurs just aren't taken as badly. And, given that I've got relatives of the same descent in different generations, these anecdotes are not just from my generation.

Hell, my grandma would just give the bug-look to anyone that said anything like that. Those sorts of 'slurs' just don't have that much impact.

And, honestly, people use "chink" and its' derivatives for more than just Chinese. Because, y'know, all Asians look alike. So, yeah, I've been called "chink" before, and I wouldn't be surprised if AA has had it, or something similar that has fuck-all to do with his actual ancestry directed at him. So maybe I'm not Chinese, but that doesn't prevent people from attempting to use that term as a pejorative on me.

This is why I said, yesterday, that each individual's response seems to be a product of where & how they were raised.

I grew up with, went to school with, and have worked with, Americans of actual, literal, Chinese descent. People who understand very well the historical origin of the word chink, and who also understand very well the bigotry experienced by their grandparents, parents, peers, and themselves - as Chinese Americans.

These people, along with the overwhelming majority of women, Jews, Muslims, African Americans and Hispanic Americans in my acquaintance (meaning, those whom I personally know and have spoken to on this very subject) do not consider the use of slurs to be socially acceptable, and appreciate it when people outside their own groups speak up to call bullshit on the use of historical pejoratives.

By the way, most of them also have a reduced opinion of white guys who stand by and say nothing when they hear slurs in public. With good reason, in my opinion, based on what I know about what happens when white guys are alone in a room together.

That's the world I live in. I'm not arguing with you, just explaining. I appreciate your acknowledgment that your view is anecdotal, and my switch unlikely to flipped as a result of this thread. I don't expect your switch to be flipped, either.

 

[LilyBart]

On another note...

I have been reading a bit this week about the Susan Boyle phenomenon.

Today, I read this interview with judge Piers Morgan and I really liked what he wrote:

In answer to the question: Would you be disappointed if next time Susan comes out to perform, she’s had a makeover?

He replied:

I wouldn’t be disappointed; it’s entirely up to Susan what she does. But I think what part of her charm is the way she looks. She doesn’t look like the average size-zero pop star. She’s a 48-year-old woman, she’s comfortable in her own skin, she’s never been kissed, and she’s a very special lady. I think part of her appeal and charm is the way she is, so I hope she doesn’t change too much. If she comes out with a new haircut, fine; if she comes out with Simon Cowell teeth, I’ve got a problem with it.

I think I'm in love with Piers Morgan.


~LB

 

[rosco rathbone]

Wasp/Jew mongel here

don't hold with racial slurs even in jest

 

[Netzach]

On another note...

I have been reading a bit this week about the Susan Boyle phenomenon.

Today, I read this interview with judge Piers Morgan and I really liked what he wrote:

In answer to the question: Would you be disappointed if next time Susan comes out to perform, she’s had a makeover?

He replied:

I wouldn’t be disappointed; it’s entirely up to Susan what she does. But I think what part of her charm is the way she looks. She doesn’t look like the average size-zero pop star. She’s a 48-year-old woman, she’s comfortable in her own skin, she’s never been kissed, and she’s a very special lady. I think part of her appeal and charm is the way she is, so I hope she doesn’t change too much. If she comes out with a new haircut, fine; if she comes out with Simon Cowell teeth, I’ve got a problem with it.

I think I'm in love with Piers Morgan.


~LB

When did everyone collectively lose their brain completely when it comes to women and vocal talent? There have been homely pop stars in the past, it's like this is the most unthinkable thing ever. Let's not forget Ella's beginning. "I'm not having THAT on stage with me" - said Chick Webb, who was no matinee idol himself.

I love her frumpy Python drag housewife gestalt and hope she keeps it.

 

[BiBunny]

Do I need to ask permission to call myself "crazy redneck bitch" from now on? Just curious. 'Cause that's lots of permission I--and anyone else who calls me that 'cause I don't give a damn--will be needing, from all mentally ill people, all poor country folk, and all women.

Ah, whatever. Just don't call me white trash, and we're good. Them's fightin' words.

 

[LilyBart]

When did everyone collectively lose their brain completely when it comes to women and vocal talent? There have been homely pop stars in the past, it's like this is the most unthinkable thing ever. Let's not forget Ella's beginning. "I'm not having THAT on stage with me" - said Chick Webb, who was no matinee idol himself.

I love her frumpy Python drag housewife gestalt and hope she keeps it.

I hope she does too.

She is really a pleasure to watch...because she is comfortable in her own skin.

And her voice is amazing.

Although I honestly wonder how her voice wasn't discovered earlier. I'm not a singer or performer of any kind, so I admit that I don't know those ropes. But still...she has recorded before. How does the world miss that talent, I wonder?

~LB

 

[Marquis]

Do I need to ask permission to call myself "crazy redneck bitch" from now on? Just curious.

No, you look the part.

 

[LilyBart]

Oh...and I was really touched by Piers Morgan's interview where he made himself available to Susan Boyle.

He offered a romantic dinner followed by her first kiss. I can't find the link now, grrrr... but it was really sweet.

Hence my crush on Piers....
~LB