I miss the fitness threads and the fitness Doms!

[Keroin]

I am still trying to figure out why I do so well under the bar when I'm not feeling well. It's weird.

Yeah, strange phenomenon, eh?

I swam laps tonight after my regular session. Forgot how much I missed that! Now that life is semi-stable, I will be able to plan my training schedule a bit more, which means more swimming, which makes me

Oh, I'm back on the puffer. We'll see how it goes. My doc's a good guy, he spent a long time talking over all the options with me.

 

[intothewoods]

I marinated it for about 3 hours in Braggs, rice vinegar, sesame oil and sweet Thai chilli sauce. Then before cooking, I dipped it in a mixture of cornstarch and water then coated it in Japanese panko breadcrumbs. Cooked for about 2 min per side in a hot skillet and yum, yum, yum!

I also just made some wheat and sugar free breakfast bars the other day, which are really quite good but I would alter the recipe slightly next time.

Sounds good. I can't wait until it warms up here a little and we can grill again.

 

[Cattypuss]

I went for my six-weekly haircut this morning.

I was barely through the door before my hairdresser said "Wow, you've lost a lot of weight since last time!"

Needless to say, she got a big tip

 

[WriterDom]

So I can do 5 pull ups. I just can't do two in a row. One thing I can see while working out is that my biceps are getting bigger. That has to be due to the extra protein. It's not a muscle I work out very hard. Time wise I doubt that I spend 10 minutes on biceps.

All things considered it was a pretty good week as far as exercise goes. I find that I'm eating more but mostly pretty clean except for the little tiny tub of Ben and Jerry's. Top it off with an hour walk and I'll be ready for next week.

 

[Netzach]

Do I dare to eat a pear?

How literary.

 

[Cattypuss]

Do I dare to eat a pear?

How literary.

Sounds a bit Seuss-like

 

[Netzach]

Sounds a bit Seuss-like

Seuss by way of Eliot, I love it.

I am putting it off, going 2.5 mgs is not worth a pear, much as I want it.

 

[Killer_Joe]

YEAH! Fitness folks!!!!!

About 3.5 yers. ago I lost a lot of weight and before half of it was gone a friend of mine said that i had better do something so as to not get any stretch marks from weightloss. He suggested I lift weights as a pre-cautionary measure.

One thing lead to another and I picked up lifting weights as a hobby. I lift four days a week and monitor very closely what I eat.

I'm 5'6" at 179 lbs.
My daily calorie intake is 3,366 (112 fat grams/306 carb grams/252 protein grams).
I am trying to GAIN muscle but not gain too much fat (for now). In the summer I'll start to "CUT".
My chest is 46.5" my goal is 48
My waist is 34" my goal is 32"
My upper arms are 15.25" my goal is 16"

I always say, "A good sub is a BAD ASS musclar sub!"

 

[Netzach]

I denied myself the pear, but I had one slice (about an oz) of frozen pizza. So far OK.

It was absurdly good. M put good black olives on it. It was also absurdly sweet. I can't believe how much sugar is loaded into everything with tomato.

 

[Cattypuss]

I've just got home from my weekly Slimming World class.

I lost 4 pounds this week. THAT'S more like it!

So, I've been doing Slimming World for 17 weeks and in that time I've lost 29 pounds.

29 pounds down. 41 pounds still to go.

I am just over 40% of the way there.

 

[damonX]

There could be a couple reasons for this. A lot of people, when working their back, use improper form and tend to recruit their biceps to a greater degree. These effects with be further increased if you work biceps before back (at the expense of back development.)

The second reason could be the simple fact that biceps are one of the easiest muscles to notice changes in. They are relatively superficial and have a comparitively small amount of subcutaneous fat covering them. People also tend to notice their biceps easily since they are one of the only muscles that can be fully viewed without a mirror.

I would suggest reviewing your exercise order and evaluate what you're doing for back. Odds are, you're underworking it.

 

[damonX]

I was just wondering what your background is. As a physiotherapist, I'm finding your comments a little bit off.

 

[damonX]

Spinal fluid placement is one reason why I won't lift heavy right after I wake up. And it is the reason why back extensions, bridges, and the reverse hyperextension are so good for the spine.

Have we talked foam rolling yet? Have you looked into it?

I was just wondering what your background is. As a physiotherapist, I'm finding your comments a bit off.

 

[Homburg]

I was just wondering what your background is. As a physiotherapist, I'm finding your comments a bit off.

As I've said before in this thread, my background is absolutely unrelated to anything in this field. I am a layman. I'll happily discuss it with you if you'd like. As you don't explain what is off to you, I'll just provide the origins of the overall statement.

I am going off of articles written by a couple of different folks in the powerlifting community regarding what happens to the fluid in the spine when you are supine for a good 7-8 hours, such as sleeping. It takes some time for the spine to readjust to being vertical. It was not a case where it was a prohibition against it. More of strong advice to give it a little time, warm up properly, etc. And, honestly, it only matters if you're lifting heavy (comparative to BW).

As to their particulars, one was a doctor of some sort (it's been years since I read it, and I honestly don't remember what his degree is in) and another was Louie Simmons (Owner of Westside Barbell in Ohio). No idea what Louie's education background is, but I am not one to argue with results. Westside produces some of the best results in powerlifting, and Louie himself has some pretty impressive totals, thus he preaches from under the bar.

The 63-year-old Simmons racked up a 1,850 pound total that included lifts of 725, 455 and 670 pounds.

Those numbers represent a squat, bench press, and deadlift at a Nashville meet from 2009. Puts him 39th in the world. Pretty good for a guy in his 60's.

Note: I'm not attacking you, or even arguing back. Just telling you where I got it, and why I said what I did. My perspective is that of a powerlifter (just DL'ed today), and when I talk lifting, it is in reference to heavy stuff, compound movements, etc. I haven't done an isolation movement in, geeze, years (ignoring of rehab/prehab work)

So, yeah, I'm just some guy. I've coached a few people, trained a few more, written a few programs, and increased some totals. In short, nothing major.

 

[damonX]

Actually, the part that I had issue with was your prescription of exercises for a person with a back injury. The main thing you have to realize is that power lifting techniques are great for powerlifting but can be quite detrimental when applied to rehabilitation.

It wasn't your comment about spinal fluid (although now reading your last post, I'm quite convinced that you may be a bit confused regarding the physiology of what's happening there). I may be able to clear some things up for you if you wish. I'm sure your training techniques are sound, it just seems like your scientific reasoning is somewhat poorly understood.

 

[Homburg]

Actually, the part that I had issue with was your prescription of exercises for a person with a back injury. The main thing you have to realize is that power lifting techniques are great for powerlifting but can be quite detrimental when applied to rehabilitation.

It wasn't your comment about spinal fluid (although now reading your last post, I'm quite convinced that you may be a bit confused regarding the physiology of what's happening there). I may be able to clear some things up for you if you wish. I'm sure your training techniques are sound, it just seems like your scientific reasoning is somewhat poorly understood.

I'm always happy to hear new info.

In my own case, I've trained/coached a few folks with some back injuries, but, as I said, I'm all about hearing new info.

First point of order though, I'm not running off of scientific reasoning here. I am running off of personal experience and what amounts to hearsay. I'm not claiming science or medicine as my background or platform.

It's your call whether you want to take it to PM's or not. No idea how deep you want to go into physiology or how off-topic we're going to spiral.

 

[Keroin]

I was just wondering what your background is. As a physioterrorist, I'm finding your comments a bit off.

There, fixed that for you

(Ex-stuntgirl here)

 

[WriterDom]

My legs seem to adapt really quickly. I need to come up with some muscle confusion on Saturday. I was blessed with pretty good legs to begin with. In the ninth grade I was probably 5' 4" if that and did a standing broad jump of over seven feet. Second in the class to a guy who was over six feet tall. I can remember also impressing the coaches with suicides. I wasn't that fast but I guess I had quickness.

 

[damonX]

I'm always happy to hear new info.

In my own case, I've trained/coached a few folks with some back injuries, but, as I said, I'm all about hearing new info.

First point of order though, I'm not running off of scientific reasoning here. I am running off of personal experience and what amounts to hearsay. I'm not claiming science or medicine as my background or platform.

It's your call whether you want to take it to PM's or not. No idea how deep you want to go into physiology or how off-topic we're going to spiral.

Ok, well there's a couple issues to address here. Neither should affect the way you train. But if you are prescribing exercises for the purposes of rehabilitation , then that's a different story.

First of all, realize that the majority of back injuries are not serious and will most likely get better no matter what you do with the person. Therefor, anecdotal evidence is worthless. Saying "it worked for me" or "I trained someone, and it worked for them" is useless because you have no idea what's happening in the person's spine. Some of the exercises you've recomended are quite risky for someone with an injured back. That doesn't mean that they will cause harm. It just means that the risk is increased. You've mentioned that they are "good for the spine". I'm not sure what you meant by that or what your reasoning is. Perhaps you could clarify?

Now you mention "spinal fluid" but I'm not sure you mean by that term or that you know exactly what you are referring to. The mechanism that I believe you are referring to has to do with fluid within the intervertebral discs. The term "spinal fluid" generally refers to the cerebrospinal fluid which plays no part in movement or weight bearing.

 

[Homburg]

Ok, well there's a couple issues to address here. Neither should affect the way you train. But if you are prescribing exercises for the purposes of rehabilitation , then that's a different story.

I'm not "prescribing" anything. I'm not a doc or a therapist or any other sort that "prescribes" any sort of treatment. I make suggestions.

At the end of the day, and awful lot of "bad" backs that don't have actual hard tissue problems, have muscle imbalances, compensation due to weakness, poor ROM, and posture-related issues. In my book, the best way to combat a lot of that is proper movement and exercise. Again, when it comes to overall back health, deadlift wins. It's even functional, as the act of picking something heavy off the deck is something is not exactly uncommon in the real world.

And you'll note that I suggested that people get someone to train them or at least watch for form. Good form in the deadlift leads to good form in lifting in general. It also strengthens essentially everything in the core and will work out all sorts of imbalances. So, again, from my persective, it's good stuff.

First of all, realize that the majority of back injuries are not serious and will most likely get better no matter what you do with the person. Therefor, anecdotal evidence is worthless. Saying "it worked for me" or "I trained someone, and it worked for them" is useless because you have no idea what's happening in the person's spine.

The bolded part pretty much says that I can advise virtually anything I want. Wheee.

And I did not include specific anecdote because I am well aware of the lack of proof there.

To be honest, the tone here really does hedge awful darned close to supercilious and condescending. If that's your intent, well, fill your boots. If it is not, then maybe you should back it off a notch.

Some of the exercises you've recomended are quite risky for someone with an injured back. That doesn't mean that they will cause harm. It just means that the risk is increased.

Meh. We're probably gonna diagree on various points and various levels here, and it is because of intrinsic differences in viewpoint.

There is NOTHING inherently dangerous about deadlifting.

There is NOTHING inherently dangerous about squats.

What is dangerous is bad form. Additionaly, there are portions of the populace for whom it in contraindicated due to existing physical issues.

If you read what I said overall, you'll note some disclaimers in there. So if your issue is that it is dangerous for some people, reread my posts and you'll find disclaimers. If your issue is that the movements or style of exercise is somehow intrinsically unsafe, we will have to disagree.

You've mentioned that they are "good for the spine". I'm not sure what you meant by that or what your reasoning is. Perhaps you could clarify?

The spine is just as capable of improvement as the muscles surrounding it. Using it properly, loading it in a way to spur adaptation, will cause it to strengthen.

Now you mention "spinal fluid" but I'm not sure you mean by that term or that you know exactly what you are referring to. The mechanism that I believe you are referring to has to do with fluid within the intervertebral discs. The term "spinal fluid" generally refers to the cerebrospinal fluid which plays no part in movement or weight bearing.

The fluid in the discs is what I am referring to. Not trying to drown the thread in jargon or too much detail on an off-handed comment. I get pedantic enough as is, no need to push it further.

 

[damonX]

You are correct. There is nothing inherently wrong with squats or deadlifts. In fact they are both great. The issue I had was your suggestion of hyperextensions or good mornings(if they still use that term) for someone with a pre-existing back injury.
You've also mentioned that these exercises are somehow good for the spine due to the change in disc fluid levels?

I can see I've struck a nerve here, but that wasn't my intent. The tone gets changed when put in print, especially when using analytical terminology.

 

[damonX]

The bolded part pretty much says that I can advise virtually anything I want. Wheee.

Actually you shouldn't be advising anything. You just probably wont see any noticeable changes. You really have no way of knowing if something "works" or not.

 

[Homburg]

Reverse-hyperextensions. It's a different animal. I don't personally do hyper-extensions. And, yes, good mornings. I like them. Properly done, they kick ass. Again, form is key.

Again, I was not trying to get to deep into the jargon. The idea being that certain movements force shifts in the fluid. It would likely be better to read the articles. I'm not the guy writing it.

As to a nerve, well, you didn't hit it, but you were getting close. If you say it was not your intent, I'll take you at your word.

I didn't accept good mornings initially either. It was not until I'd done a lot of reading on it that I decided to give them a shot. To provide some perspective, I've got a 450# 1RM on the deadlift, but the most I'll use on Good Mornings is about 275#. I consider it an assistance movement, though I do know plenty of people significantly stronger than myself that consider it a bread&butter movement to chase max effort on.

When I was doing GM's with some of the folks with back injuries that I've worked with, I've had them doing the movement with as little as 15#. It worked wonders for some insofar as proprioception, in some cases, and gluteal activation were concerned.

Actually you shouldn't be advising anything. You just probably wont see any noticeable changes. You really have no way of knowing if something "works" or not.

*shrug* We'll disagree here. I've been given enough utterly shit advice by doctors and PT's to disbelieve that a handful of letters after your name is all it takes to magically produce good advice. And I've gotten enough great advice from unlettered folks to realise that lack of letters does not somehow make good advice into shit.

And, uh, sorry, DX, but if I see a guy walk in with serious back pain that has persisted for years, and he walks out a few months later to not need meds, well, that's change. And, sure, it might've occured spontaneously, but if it went on for years and the only change in his life was productive exercise and movement, it certainly isn't bad odds that something in that movement helped.

 

[damonX]

I consider it an assistance movement, though I do know plenty of people significantly stronger than myself that consider it a bread&butter movement to chase max effort on.

First, Please understand that the above kind of statement should never be considered evidence.

Now, I am not arguing that good mornings are not effective at increasing muscle strength. They are. But exercises that are useful for increasing muscle strength, are not always the best for the joints themselves. Good mornings in particular place a ridiculous amount of sheer stress on the spine. This will be no problem for the majority of the population. But...if the person has a preexisting spinal injury, then it really is not a good idea. You will have a very hard time finding any health care professional who would recomend that exercise for an injured person. They also don't have any effect on the disc fluid so I'm not sure how you were making that connection.

 

[BiBunny]

*shrug* We'll disagree here. I've been given enough utterly shit advice by doctors and PT's to disbelieve that a handful of letters after your name is all it takes to magically produce good advice. And I've gotten enough great advice from unlettered folks to realise that lack of letters does not somehow make good advice into shit.

And, uh, sorry, DX, but if I see a guy walk in with serious back pain that has persisted for years, and he walks out a few months later to not need meds, well, that's change. And, sure, it might've occured spontaneously, but if it went on for years and the only change in his life was productive exercise and movement, it certainly isn't bad odds that something in that movement helped.

No fucking shit.

One of the last times I saw a PT for my bum shoulder, she spent 10 minutes exercising the WRONG DAMN ARM before I finally asked her what on earth she was doing.

"OMG!" she squealed. "Why did you let me work on the wrong one?"

Um, because you're the PT, and you're in charge here. You had the damn chart in front of you that said right arm, not left, so I thought you had a reason for what you were doing. Excuse the hell out of me for thinking you should know what the fuck you were doing.

For the record, I've been to two rounds of PT for this shoulder, and it's been about as useful as a screen door in a submarine. When I have insurance again, I'll have surgery and have the damn thing put back together, which is what should've been done to begin with.