I miss the fitness threads and the fitness Doms!

[YourCaptor]

Between being sick and stress, my workout has suffered.

Done some major leaps in climbing though.

I feel myself getting weaker though, especially in my arms. Grrrrr

 

[damonX]

What is your injury Keroin?

 

[Keroin]

What is your injury Keroin?

The original was from a car accident back, oh twenty years ago. Strained/sprained a whole whack of stuff in my neck and shoulders. Then in 1998 my snowmobile landed on top of me when a jump went wrong. I never did get that one checked out, so not sure about the exact nature of the injury. All I know is I couldn't use my shoulder or arm for awhile. And when I did stunts, being right-handed, I always fell onto my right side - hip and shoulder - so just lots and lots and of continuous hitting of the pavement and other solid objects.

My doc told me I probably have a fair mess of scar tissue. He also says I have mild scoliosis, aka "a slight lean to starboard".

 

[Homburg]

DUH! It has been over two years since I last checked and YES, there is now one ART practitioner here. Hooray! And her office is walking distance from me. I'll check her out for sure.

Thanks for the nudge, H!

--

I'm not sure why you brought this up but I am interested in discussing it. What surgery did you have?

It was a response to the comment about MRI's being commonly inconclusive.

I was taking some scene photos and step backwards into an 18" deep chuckhole. Jammed my right knee pretty solidly. Lots of swelling, pain, etc. Went to the doc, got x-rays, and MRI, etc, and it was all inconclusive. Doc sent me to PT, and the PT had me doing things that were horrible for me. Any sort of lunge movement on my right knee severely aggravates the chrondomalacia patella problem that I otherwise live (mostly) peacefully with. She told me to do them anyway, and we butted heads. When I showed her that what she was telling me to do was bringing the swelling back, she relented.

Eventually I was sent back to the doc. I flat told him that PT was sending me in the wrong direction, so he decided to scope my knee and and see what he could do. He said that when I jammed the knee, the bones slammed together and pinched the tissue surrounding the knee capsule. And for the life of my I cannot recall the name he used, and it is pissing me off. It's on the tip of my frikken tongue, and I can't remember it.

Anyway, he went in for surgery and just didn't find much. He removed some tissue around the knee as it showed some signs of swelling or somesuch. I wish I could explain it better, but the doc hemmed and hawed and bullshitted his way through the explanation tot he point where I got fed up. I finally confronted him about it and would not relent until he told me whether he felt as if the problem were solved or the surgery was unsuccessful. I was told that the problem would recur, though he would not admit that the surgery was a failure. His words were, "It was not a success, per se."

More useless PT followed. Between some serious discussion between myself and the PT, it was determined that the things that actually helped were ice massages of the area where the ITB goes tendonous, and deep heat treatments in the same area.

My PT really had no clue what to do with my knee, and she was frustrated as hell. I don't feel like she wasn't trying, she just had no idea what to do to fix the problem, or even really help.

Of course the pain came back. I did my own research, stumbled across Clair Davies triggerpoint book, and found the fix myself. When the pain starts back up, I jam my thumb in the right spot behind my knee, massage out the knots in popliteus and plantaris. Sometimes I have to work the upper parts of the calf as well. It takes minutes, and the pain goes away.

$18,000 worth of surgeries, MRI, and eight months of PT produces "It was not a success, per se."

$15 worth of book and my right thumb produces "Ahhhh, that feels better."

Note: I do not see my story as condemnation of the orthopedic industry. There's a LOT of people doing very good work. It is, however, indicative that said industry should not be trusted blindly. If I had trusted it, my knee would still be jacked up today, and I would've wasted even more time and money.

After an injury, the activity of the deep stabilizers is decreased by a process called reflex inhibition. The activity of the more superficial lumbar muscles (erector spinae) actually increases as the patient tends to recruit the larger, stronger primary movers. The rhomboids are in the upper back so they don't funtion in spinal stability of the lumbar spine. Lattissimus Dorsi does function as a lumbar stabilizer, but it attaches to the lumbar spine via the Thoracolumbar fascia. The TLF is a broad sheet of connective tissue, and is not subject to atrophy. As you probably know, the lats function mainly as shoulder extensors so they aren't really affected by a lumbar injury.
You would see similar atrophy in all postural muscles if your injury led you to lie in bed for a long period of time though.

This makes sense. Thank you.

Posture is something that I have become interested in. I've picked up a good bit about all sorts of injuries in both my line of work and my various hobbies, learned a lot about massage and pain management through myofascial release (again, hobbies), and picked up a workingman's knowledge of movement and mobility while training various people. Posture is my current interest though. It keeps popping up, and I keep noticing certain trends, postural discrepancies, etc. It fascinates me to thinkt hat someone holding their head out of place could cause shoulder problems, low back issues, etc, or that favouring one leg over the other could disrupt upper body movement.

 

[Killer_Joe]

Being strong is so much better...

Oh, I'm not WORKING against being strong, I'm just saying if I had my druthers I'd go for a muscular look rather than a powerlifter look. I see powerlifters that just look like big fat guys. That's not a look I want.

I want to be fit, have definition in my muscles and my goals is pretty much where I want to be in the end. If that means that I could lift a car over my head then so be it, but I'd be okay with just knowing that I LOOK like I could lift a car over my head.


Thanks for the input, protein shakes, I like that!

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

She's right, y;know.

I totally meant that in a smutty way, and you go and turn it into something serious!




In other news though, as a fitness/health related thingie... Which works better for core strength and flexibility, yoga or pilates? Can I teach myself with a few dvds and stuff, or should I go to a few classes first?

 

[Keroin]

I totally meant that in a smutty way, and you go and turn it into something serious!




In other news though, as a fitness/health related thingie... Which works better for core strength and flexibility, yoga or pilates? Can I teach myself with a few dvds and stuff, or should I go to a few classes first?

My vote would be for Pilates and I would go to lessons. Not just mat work, either. Lessons with the apparatus, like this...

http://www.bangkokfitnesstraining.com/images/pilates-woman-600.jpg

For core strength, I also love ball training and some of the other balance apparatus like the balance disc...
http://smarter.expotv.com/f0rrest/150766_ST.jpg

But again, I'd really recommend having someone train you, in person, first, before working on your own, if you are serious about it.

I do love yoga, too, BTW but Pilates would be my first choice.

My two cents.

 

[Homburg]

Oh, I'm not WORKING against being strong, I'm just saying if I had my druthers I'd go for a muscular look rather than a powerlifter look. I see powerlifters that just look like big fat guys. That's not a look I want.

Powerlifters don't look that way because of how they train. They look that way because of how they eat. Plenty are not even remotely fat. Hell, Matt Kroclazewki (or however that's spelled) looks like he's about 4 weeks away from a bodybuilding competition in most pictures. Dave Tate and Marc Bartley have both dieted down and competed on the posing stage.

Your average powerlifter is a big fat guy because his goals are "Get Stronger," "Get Stronger", and "Get Stronger." Getting bigger helps to get stronger, and the ONLY way to get bigger is to eat (even steroids just help, massive food intake is still required). Bodybuilders and oly lifters have different goals, and thus eat differently.

Essentially, "Power bodybuilding" is training methods more akin to a powerlifter, oly lifter, and football player, but eat like a bodybuilder.

I want to be fit, have definition in my muscles and my goals is pretty much where I want to be in the end. If that means that I could lift a car over my head then so be it, but I'd be okay with just knowing that I LOOK like I could lift a car over my head.


Thanks for the input, protein shakes, I like that!

Nothing wrong with looking strong. Just do your compound movements, man. So many good reasons to do them, from hormonal response, increased muscle recruitment, and healthier movement patterns.

And, honestly, I would much rather look like Pyrros Dimas...

http://www.881234567.com/pic2008/dimas1Small.jpg

...than Ronnie Coleman

http://www.ronniecoleman.net/bigbeachsm.jpg

That said, props to Ronnie. First off, he is in stunning shape for a guy in his 40's (the pic above is not contest-ready). Secondly, he's strong as an ox. Ronnie is closer to the heyday of actually seriously strong bodybuilders. Franco Columbo being a good example. Columbo was crazy strong. His physique showed it too.

It's just that my aesthetics prefer the muscle of Dimas to the bloated muscle of modern bodybuilding. And my take on the comparative styles of training make me unhappy with much of what modern bodybuilding is doing.

(Doggcrapp is actually not bad though. I wouldn't do it, or even train someone in that style, but you could do worse.)

--

I totally meant that in a smutty way, and you go and turn it into something serious!

Well, um, it is a thread about fitness, right?

I will say though, being able to just toss MIS around like she weighs nothing is a pretty big plus in her eyes. I can casually pick her up and put her over my head. I'm getting closer to the point where I can do it one-handed on arm strength alone. That gets her excited, lemme tell ya.

In other news though, as a fitness/health related thingie... Which works better for core strength and flexibility, yoga or pilates? Can I teach myself with a few dvds and stuff, or should I go to a few classes first?

Are you asking about core (strength and flexibility), or (core strength) and (flexibility)?

I would give the nod to yoga for overall flexibility, but pilates for pure core. Pilates is brutal, man. Yoga's no joke either, but, wow, pilates kicked my ass.

And, much like K, I would suggest some instruction. It's tough to keep your eyes on a video and do the movements at the same time. And it is even tougher to know if you're doing it right.

 

[Homburg]

OVERHEAD PRESS DAY, Cycle 2 Wave B

55x5
70x3
80x3 warm-ups done
95x3
110x3
120x9

Rep calc says 156#. Hmph. Improvement, but my head wasn't in it. Too much to do, too many distractions, and no motivation. That has been the theme lately. I'm wondering if the cycles are a hair too long.

I bumped out of the assistance stuff today. I figure I'll be sweating and working enough cleaning up yet another goddamned snowfall.

I'm really sick of this shit.

 

[damonX]

It was a response to the comment about MRI's being commonly inconclusive

Just to clarify, my comment was in relation to the inability of MRI in differentiating between lumbar sprain and strain. MRI is one othe most useful diagnostic techniques in the history of medicine. Now, of course it can not detect absolutely everything. There are situations in which it is useless, but that doesn't mean that has no use whatsoever. The results also depend on the skill of the radiologist. It is very expensive though. I know that in the US, they severely overuse it. (But I wont get into the problems with the American medical system.) Here in Canada, its generally not used unless needed.

I can't really comment on your injury because I don't know what it was. If there's one thing that most poeple don't understand is that Doctors (and I mean generaly practicioners) have a very limited knowledge of orthopedic injuries. They take an average of about 8 weeks of ortho in med school. They learn the bare basics and that's it. If you go to an MD with a muskuloskeletal problem, odds are they will prescribe you some ibuprofen and tell you to "stay off it".

As for your physio, like I said...there are a lot of bad physios out there. I don't know what she was doing or what approach she was taking so I can't really comment on it. Please understand that "physiotherapy" is a very very broad field and physios pactice a wide range of things and use a different number of approaches depending of their background. They may use ART, massage, myofacial release, joint mobilization, spinal manipulation, exercise, electrophysical modalities and many many more. People often ask...does physio work? Well, that depends on what the injury is and what the physiotherapist does. Like any profession there are good and bad ones. I've only been to a physio as a client once (years and years ago). And looking back, she was probably the worst physio I've ever seen. A major mstake is that people go to a physio and expect them to just lie back and have the therapist do something to them and just "make them better". It doesn't work like that. There is nothing you can do to magically heal damaged tissue. We can optimize healing, increase of maintain function, and prevent further injury.

Another is...please understand that different injuries require different treatment approaches. If you had a bad experience with surgery don't assume that surgery is always bad and should never be used. There are things that will not get better with conservative treatment and will require surgery. There are also injuries that generally have poor results with surgery. (In the US, surgery is suggested more often, because the MDs make more money for surgery than from conservative treatment. You really have to treat each condition completely separate. I've had patients come to me with a problem that requires medical intervention but refuse to go to the doctor because "physio worked for them in the past with other problems". This is a very precarious position to take.

Sorry, went off on a tangent there.

 

[damonX]

Oh, I'm not WORKING against being strong, I'm just saying if I had my druthers I'd go for a muscular look rather than a powerlifter look. I see powerlifters that just look like big fat guys. That's not a look I want.

I want to be fit, have definition in my muscles and my goals is pretty much where I want to be in the end. If that means that I could lift a car over my head then so be it, but I'd be okay with just knowing that I LOOK like I could lift a car over my head.


Thanks for the input, protein shakes, I like that!

I agree with you here. You don't need to become a powerlifter. However, powerlifting techniques are very usefull for providing a base to start from. When I started lifting, I used a lot of powerlifting techniques with good results. But it all depends on what your body type is and what your goals are. As with most people, I'm guessing that you want to look good? So are you relatively skinny? Or are you endomorphic with a bit of excess body fat?

One major error that people often commit when they begin working out is that they "specialize" too early. They go to the gym and begin to using cables and special machines. In general, basic, compound exercises are the best to start with.

Now I may cause some arguments on here with my next point, but here it goes. The fitness industry goes through "trends" over time. Right now, a current trend is that of "core stability" and balance etc. As a former personal trainer and someone who still spend a lot of time in gyms, I've noticed that trainers often overuse these terms and overuse these techniques. I see some skinny 19 year old hire a personal trainer because he wants to build some muscle, but then the trainer has him spending all his time standing on balance boards or BOSU balls etc. Now there's nothing wrong with this if your goal is to work your "core" (although, most people don't even understand what that term means.) But if you want to change the way your body looks, then thats not the approach to take.

 

[Homburg]

Just to clarify, my comment was in relation to the inability of MRI in differentiating between lumbar sprain and strain. MRI is one othe most useful diagnostic techniques in the history of medicine. Now, of course it can not detect absolutely everything. There are situations in which it is useless, but that doesn't mean that has no use whatsoever. The results also depend on the skill of the radiologist. It is very expensive though. I know that in the US, they severely overuse it. (But I wont get into the problems with the American medical system.) Here in Canada, its generally not used unless needed.

Oh, I completely understand that you were talking about sprain and strain. And, yeah, our medical system is a train wreck. I honestly wish we would do something like you guys have. It drives me crazy to think about the money we put out as a nation compared to what we get.

I can't really comment on your injury because I don't know what it was.

I still can't remember the name of the bit what he claimed was damaged, and it is really irritating me. My memory is usually better than this. Admittedly, it happened almost ten years ago, but I should still remember this. What's worse is that I can't even find the term in diagrams of the knee or the basic anatomy texts that I have. Makes me wonder if he was using some archaic terminology or something.

This is really starting to bug me.

And don't feel bad. My ortho doc didn't know what it was either

If there's one thing that most poeple don't understand is that Doctors (and I mean generaly practicioners) have a very limited knowledge of orthopedic injuries. They take an average of about 8 weeks of ortho in med school. They learn the bare basics and that's it. If you go to an MD with a muskuloskeletal problem, odds are they will prescribe you some ibuprofen and tell you to "stay off it".

Guy was an orthopedic specialist in an ortho speciality unit. How he got the job, I dunno. I've gotten more informed and intelligent assistance from a PA at a sports medicine practice I dealt with a few years later.

As for your physio, like I said...there are a lot of bad physios out there. I don't know what she was doing or what approach she was taking so I can't really comment on it. Please understand that "physiotherapy" is a very very broad field and physios pactice a wide range of things and use a different number of approaches depending of their background. They may use ART, massage, myofacial release, joint mobilization, spinal manipulation, exercise, electrophysical modalities and many many more. People often ask...does physio work? Well, that depends on what the injury is and what the physiotherapist does. Like any profession there are good and bad ones. I've only been to a physio as a client once (years and years ago). And looking back, she was probably the worst physio I've ever seen. A major mstake is that people go to a physio and expect them to just lie back and have the therapist do something to them and just "make them better". It doesn't work like that. There is nothing you can do to magically heal damaged tissue. We can optimize healing, increase of maintain function, and prevent further injury.

Another is...please understand that different injuries require different treatment approaches. If you had a bad experience with surgery don't assume that surgery is always bad and should never be used. There are things that will not get better with conservative treatment and will require surgery. There are also injuries that generally have poor results with surgery. (In the US, surgery is suggested more often, because the MDs make more money for surgery than from conservative treatment. You really have to treat each condition completely separate. I've had patients come to me with a problem that requires medical intervention but refuse to go to the doctor because "physio worked for them in the past with other problems". This is a very precarious position to take.

Sorry, went off on a tangent there.

Nah, I don't have an issue with surgery, or even PT. I had a bad experience, yeah, but I understand why. My PT couldn't do much with a specific problem when the doc couldn't actually tell her what the problem was. The only thing I blame her for (aside from being grumpy at her apparent lack of options in her toolbox) was refusing to believe me when I said that lunges were bad for my knees. It took swelling and noise that she could hear before she would back off, and the pain from that did nothing to make my already hurting knee happier with her.

Personally, I avoid medical assistance where possible. If I can self-treat, I do it. 905% of the time, it's gonna be your afore-mentioned "Take some ibuprofen and stay off of it." I don't need to spend $120 out of my uninsured pocket to hear that. I just take my ibuprofen and keep off of it.

When I had a back muscle spasm a few months ago, I kept moving and working until I could get home. Then I laid down for a little while until MIS got home. Once she did, she and I figured out what muscle group was causing it (I couldn't physically reach it, and viv doesn't have the tactile sensitivity to catch it, nor can she tolerate causing the sort of pain it can cause). Once she localised it, she worked out the worst knots, and some quality time spent with the foam roller and a lacrosse ball fixed the rest. I was squatting the next day.

But when I have something happen that I know I can't handle, ear infection for example, I see a doc, period. I am not anti-medicine. I just don't have the blind respect for it that so many do simply because it has failed me too often.

I also realise that I am a difficult patient. I'll do what I'm told, but you'd better goddamned explain why I am doing, and had definitely better listen to feedback when I offer it. Blow me off, and I will walk out the door and find another practitioner that will listen. That said, when I do find that practitioner, I stick with them and am easy as pie. My dentist, for example, is on that list. I rarely go to him, but he has earned my business top to bottom simply by listening to me when I told him that I am highly anaesthetic-resistant.

Unlike the urologist that did my vasectomy.

And, ooooh, do NOT get me started on how surgery is over-used. Did I mention how stupid our medical system is?

 

[Homburg]

I agree with you here. You don't need to become a powerlifter. However, powerlifting techniques are very usefull for providing a base to start from. When I started lifting, I used a lot of powerlifting techniques with good results. But it all depends on what your body type is and what your goals are. As with most people, I'm guessing that you want to look good? So are you relatively skinny? Or are you endomorphic with a bit of excess body fat?

One major error that people often commit when they begin working out is that they "specialize" too early. They go to the gym and begin to using cables and special machines. In general, basic, compound exercises are the best to start with.

Now I may cause some arguments on here with my next point, but here it goes. The fitness industry goes through "trends" over time. Right now, a current trend is that of "core stability" and balance etc. As a former personal trainer and someone who still spend a lot of time in gyms, I've noticed that trainers often overuse these terms and overuse these techniques. I see some skinny 19 year old hire a personal trainer because he wants to build some muscle, but then the trainer has him spending all his time standing on balance boards or BOSU balls etc. Now there's nothing wrong with this if your goal is to work your "core" (although, most people don't even understand what that term means.) But if you want to change the way your body looks, then thats not the approach to take.

No arguments from me. I wish more people in the industry would take this attitude.

And I've got that exact skinny 19 year old right now trying to figure out how to get time to come over and lift with me. I'm hoping he does. He's rail-thin, but a good kid, and motivated. Working with endomorphic computer geeks is challenging, sure, but I'd like to try an ectomorph for a change.

 

[damonX]

When I had a back muscle spasm a few months ago, I kept moving and working until I could get home. Then I laid down for a little while until MIS got home. Once she did, she and I figured out what muscle group was causing it (I couldn't physically reach it, and viv doesn't have the tactile sensitivity to catch it, nor can she tolerate causing the sort of pain it can cause). Once she localised it, she worked out the worst knots, and some quality time spent with the foam roller and a lacrosse ball fixed the rest. I was squatting the next day.

Yeah, so this type of thing is not what I would consider to be an "injury", in that there is no real damage to the tissue. This kind of stuff can be dealt with by massage type techniques or even simple rest and a robaxacet. I hate when people come to see me with simple muscle spasm. 99% of the time they just want a massage. ( I don't massage patients).

Do you still have chonrodomalacia symptoms? ( this is an old term, not used much anymore). Who diagnosed it?

 

[Keroin]

And, much like K, I would suggest some instruction. It's tough to keep your eyes on a video and do the movements at the same time. And it is even tougher to know if you're doing it right.

Form, form, form, form…I just don’t think a DVD is any substitute for someone watching you, in person, and correcting mistakes. Better than nothing, maybe, but I prefer one-on-one when I’m learning something new. (But I know I don’t have to tell you about the importance of form, H )

Now I may cause some arguments on here with my next point, but here it goes. The fitness industry goes through "trends" over time. Right now, a current trend is that of "core stability" and balance etc. As a former personal trainer and someone who still spend a lot of time in gyms, I've noticed that trainers often overuse these terms and overuse these techniques. I see some skinny 19 year old hire a personal trainer because he wants to build some muscle, but then the trainer has him spending all his time standing on balance boards or BOSU balls etc. Now there's nothing wrong with this if your goal is to work your "core" (although, most people don't even understand what that term means.) But if you want to change the way your body looks, then thats not the approach to take.

You won’t find any argument from me, either. I think that people’s goals, body types and fitness levels should most definitely be taken into account when designing a training regime. The type of training I’ve done has varied widely over the years, depending on where I was physically and what my objectives were. I did a lot of core and stability training back in the day because I already had a solid muscle base and excellent fitness level. What I needed, at that time, was to deal with the numerous old injuries that were impeding my progress, so that sort of training made sense. And I still keep it up to some degree.

And I agree, people seem to always be looking for the "latest and greatest" when the basics – push ups, sit ups, squats, pull ups, dips, etc, (done properly) - work just fine.

It's funny, I've been using the cardio machines at the gym over the winter because it was just too icy outside to run safely, (Nelson is hilly, to say the least). Anyway, when I finally got out for my first run I thought, wow, all the machines in the world can't compare to something as simple and basic as running.

 

[damonX]

No arguments from me. I wish more people in the industry would take this attitude.

It's an epidemic right now. I can barely even go to my gym without getting irritated by all the personal trainers there with clients on exercise balls and balance boards. I get sick of all the stupid machines too. My gym has 3 lateral raise machines, but not one lifting platform. There is only one squat rack for the entire gym, and it's not even a cage-style one, so you can't do deadlifts, or bentover rows.

 

[damonX]

It's funny, I've been using the cardio machines at the gym over the winter because it was just too icy outside to run safely, (Nelson is hilly, to say the least). Anyway, when I finally got out for my first run I thought, wow, all the machines in the world can't compare to something as simple and basic as running.

You should see it here in Vancouver. It's warm and sunny, and the cardio machines are still all full at the gym. Not a problem for me though, since I despise cardio. ;(

 

[Homburg]

Yeah, so this type of thing is not what I would consider to be an "injury", in that there is no real damage to the tissue. This kind of stuff can be dealt with by massage type techniques or even simple rest and a robaxacet. I hate when people come to see me with simple muscle spasm. 99% of the time they just want a massage. ( I don't massage patients).

This is why I refused to go to the doc. I figured that it was just a spasm. Big deal. Find it, work it out, done.

Do you still have chonrodomalacia symptoms? ( this is an old term, not used much anymore). Who diagnosed it?

What is the current jargon for it? Patellofemoral Syndrome maybe? I've heard that term; I've just used chrondomalacia for so long that it's habit.

I don't recall who diagnosed it. It was eons ago, but it was probably a GP. He "suggested" that it was what was going on. From what I've gathered, it is something that needs scoping to actually hard diagnose. *shrug*

I still have that noise of stryofoam rubbing together when I climb stairs, and both knees get stiff when they stay still for too long. I don't get the pain behind the kneecap much unless I jog, do any sort of jumping, or any form of lunges.

I haven't done it in a while, but sprinting did not bother the knees at all, just regular speed running and jogging. And when I tried the POSE method, my knees were largely okay with that. The problem came to stopping. The stop just caused ugliness.

I attribute hitting the weights again to the kneecap issues lessening. Strengthening up all the muscles around the knee, and reworking my movement patterns, has likely helped my kneecap track better.

It's an epidemic right now. I can barely even go to my gym without getting irritated by all the personal trainers there with clients on exercise balls and balance boards. I get sick of all the stupid machines too. My gym has 3 lateral raise machines, but not one lifting platform. There is only one squat rack for the entire gym, and it's not even a cage-style one, so you can't do deadlifts, or bentover rows.

This is why I won't lift in commercial gyms. When I come in to find either no squat rack, or one dusty rack that some jack-off is doing bicep curls in, I'm done. The last time I lifted in a commercial gym (a Gold's Gym), there was, no joke, a guy doing bicep curls in the one dusty rack. He'd curl one dumbbell, then kiss the bicep. No, I am not joking.

Anyway, after twenty minutes of this narcissistic mirror masturbation, he finally moved, and I started a set of squats. It took about 10 minutes before half the people in the gym were looking at me like I'd grown a second head. And I had no less than three people tell me that I was going to hurt myself lifting "that much weight". I had 275# on the bar and wasn't done with my warm-up sets yet. By the time I got to my top set (345# at that point), people were blatantly staring.

 

[damonX]

What is the current jargon for it? Patellofemoral Syndrome maybe? I've heard that term; I've just used chrondomalacia for so long that it's habit.

I don't recall who diagnosed it. It was eons ago, but it was probably a GP. He "suggested" that it was what was going on. From what I've gathered, it is something that needs scoping to actually hard diagnose. *shrug*


Yeah, Patellofemoral Syndrome is usually used. This is kind of a blanket term to decribe any problem with pain under the patella. It's very, very common among active people. (usually runners). When the knee flexes and extends, the patella slides along the trochlea of the femur, gradually wearing down the cartilage, eventually producing pain when the underlying bone is affected. There are a lot of different possible causes, athough its usually a combination of a number of factors. Its always activity related, with pain occuring during running, squating or walking up stairs.

A scope will not give you any useful information for this condition. Scopes are used to view structures deeper in the knee joint.

The styrofoam sound is called "crepitus". If there's no pain associated with it, then its nothing to worry about.

PFS can't be fixed. The damage to the cartilage is done. All you can do is reduce further damage. Is the pain directly under the kneecap or on the lateral side?

Anything that causes pain with this condition should be avoided. This isn't a "no pain, no gain" type of thing.
Usually the most cost effective way of dealing with it is using a patellar knee brace with a lateral buttress that centers the patella in the trochlear groove during aggravating activities.

 

[WriterDom]

Today the meat of it was 10 x 50 barbell bench presses, 5 sets. Nice and slow and deep. Probably a good weight because the last two sets were hard to finish. And 50 dips. Did a few other things like the rope pull downs and close grip benches. I'll finish up tomorrow, do legs again on Saturday and hope for better weather soon. Someone said we had two days in February that were above normal. I've just resigned myself to plug on now and stop fretting over it. Let the sun do its thing.

 

[damonX]

[QUO

This is why I won't lift in commercial gyms. When I come in to find either no squat rack, or one dusty rack that some jack-off is doing bicep curls in, I'm done. The last time I lifted in a commercial gym (a Gold's Gym), there was, no joke, a guy doing bicep curls in the one dusty rack. He'd curl one dumbbell, then kiss the bicep. No, I am not joking.

This is strange to me. I've been a member at a few Gold's and they've been the best gyms I've used. They had rows and rows of racks and lifting platforms. (About 5 of each). They were open 24 hours too, which is good because I prefer to work out early in the morning when the gym is empty.
Right now, I'm a member at Fitness World which is the worst gym I've ever been a member of. My motivation has been dropping considerably.

 

[Homburg]

Yeah, Patellofemoral Syndrome is usually used. This is kind of a blanket term to decribe any problem with pain under the patella. It's very, very common among active people. (usually runners). When the knee flexes and extends, the patella slides along the trochlea of the femur, gradually wearing down the cartilage, eventually producing pain when the underlying bone is affected. There are a lot of different possible causes, athough its usually a combination of a number of factors. Its always activity related, with pain occuring during running, squating or walking up stairs.

I hear the noise most when walking up stairs. Zero pain while squatting though. I squat wide stance to just below parallel (in other words, powerlifter-style). If I squat narrow, or go ATG, my knees scream. Oddly enough, I pull conventional, so it is narrow-stance, and it does not bother my knees. I'd like to pull sumo, but my ankles don't care much for it. I've had lifelong lateral stability issues with my ankles. The docs wanted my mom to put me in special shoes when I was a toddler. She said no. I've twisted and sprained my ankles more times than I can count. *shrug*

A scope will not give you any useful information for this condition. Scopes are used to view structures deeper in the knee joint.

Okay. I was under the impression that surgery was the only hard diagnose (at least that is what I recall that doc telling me, yay). Is that not the case? Does it show up on some other test, or are aggregate symptoms enough?

The styrofoam sound is called "crepitus". If there's no pain associated with it, then its nothing to worry about.

For the most part, the volume of noise is a useful indicator for me of upcoming problems, and that whatever I'm doing has aggravated my knees, whether there is pain or not.

PFS can't be fixed. The damage to the cartilage is done. All you can do is reduce further damage. Is the pain directly under the kneecap or on the lateral side?

Under. Every once in a while I will get lateral pain.

Anything that causes pain with this condition should be avoided. This isn't a "no pain, no gain" type of thing.

This is why I avoid lunges and the like. It really irritates me too, as I know that I'm risking an imbalance.

Usually the most cost effective way of dealing with it is using a patellar knee brace with a lateral buttress that centers the patella in the trochlear groove during aggravating activities.

I use a basic cloth knee sleeve on my left leg for warmth, and a neoprene sleeve with what amounts to springs sewn into the sides and a reinforced hole for the knee cap for my right knee. Makes me wonder if the little bit of stabilisation that I get from that migth be why the left knee has become a bit noisier than the right over the years.

 

[Homburg]

This is strange to me. I've been a member at a few Gold's and they've been the best gyms I've used. They had rows and rows of racks and lifting platforms. (About 5 of each). They were open 24 hours too, which is good because I prefer to work out early in the morning when the gym is empty.
Right now, I'm a member at Fitness World which is the worst gym I've ever been a member of. My motivation has been dropping considerably.

It was something else before Gold's bought it. I was surprised myself, as Gold's aren't usually this bad. They had one cage, and two open racks. Everything else was just machines and benches.

Oh, wait, they had two Smith machines too

Fortunately, I have enough room in my garage for what I need. And that is a squat cage, a flat bench, and a selection of bars, bands, DB's, and kettlebells. I wouldn't mind some kind of cable pull-down, but I'm not willing to devote the space or coin to it.

 

[subish2009]

What is the current jargon for it? Patellofemoral Syndrome maybe? I've heard that term; I've just used chrondomalacia for so long that it's habit.

I don't recall who diagnosed it. It was eons ago, but it was probably a GP. He "suggested" that it was what was going on. From what I've gathered, it is something that needs scoping to actually hard diagnose. *shrug*


Yeah, Patellofemoral Syndrome is usually used. This is kind of a blanket term to decribe any problem with pain under the patella. It's very, very common among active people. (usually runners). When the knee flexes and extends, the patella slides along the trochlea of the femur, gradually wearing down the cartilage, eventually producing pain when the underlying bone is affected. There are a lot of different possible causes, athough its usually a combination of a number of factors. Its always activity related, with pain occuring during running, squating or walking up stairs.

A scope will not give you any useful information for this condition. Scopes are used to view structures deeper in the knee joint.

The styrofoam sound is called "crepitus". If there's no pain associated with it, then its nothing to worry about.

PFS can't be fixed. The damage to the cartilage is done. All you can do is reduce further damage. Is the pain directly under the kneecap or on the lateral side?

Anything that causes pain with this condition should be avoided. This isn't a "no pain, no gain" type of thing.
Usually the most cost effective way of dealing with it is using a patellar knee brace with a lateral buttress that centers the patella in the trochlear groove during aggravating activities.

I've been diagnosed with this, too. I was a runner in my teens and early 20s until I had to see an ortho for what turned out to be bilateral meniscus tears. The tears were no big deal, but the MRI's revealed pretty severe damage to the cartilage...the kind where they pull all their students into the exam room to look at the films...look at the 23-year-old sitting on the table...look back at the films and disbelievingly say, "This is HER?!?" Apparently, I had the knees of someone more than twice my age.

My ortho was actually going to smooth out the cartilage when he scoped me for the meniscus tears, but changed his mind once he was in there. I can't quite remember why....something about their being a little more tissue left than he thought from the MRI? H, you're not the only one whose memory is failing 10 years post-op.

I'm not allowed to run anymore, but I have exactly that same "noise" in my knees. Squats don't hurt me, and stationary lunges are okay, but lunges with impact (where you step into each one) kill. I couldn't do Tae Bo anymore. Pretty much it's spinning, swimming, yoga, Pilates, and lifting, which is fine, i guess, but I still miss running, 10 years later.

And, yeah, H, I have the same problem with the stiff knees when I've been in one position too long.

 

[damonX]

Okay. I was under the impression that surgery was the only hard diagnose (at least that is what I recall that doc telling me, yay). Is that not the case? Does it show up on some other test, or are aggregate symptoms enough?

The symptoms usually tell the story well enough. A simple x-ray with an axial view can be used to help diagnose but its not necessary.

Under. Every once in a while I will get lateral pain.

The fact that it is directly under and not on the side indicates it to be a compression probem and not a patellar tracking one. The cartilage is simply worn down. Not from anything you've done wrong or from any imbalance but most likely just due to repetitive use. If we all lived to be a thousand years old, we'd all get PFS at some point. The angle of the kneecap might be a factor however. Most people with PFS have a \ sloping patella. (although not that steep).

I use a basic cloth knee sleeve on my left leg for warmth, and a neoprene sleeve with what amounts to springs sewn into the sides and a reinforced hole for the knee cap for my right knee. Makes me wonder if the little bit of stabilisation that I get from that migth be why the left knee has become a bit noisier than the right over the years.

Neoprene sleeves don't really add a lot of stabilization for the knee. They simply aren't strong enough for such a large, powerful joint. They do help by way of proprioceptive feedback however, similar to the way that a lfting belt does for the lower back. Your problem is not "stability" though. Your knees are most likely very stable. Your issue is caused by repetitve compressive forces between the patella and the trochlea.