Intelligent Stories that don’t insult you

[KeithD]

You could add Rushdie to that list. His stories are unapologeticly filled with magic and his characters are wild extremes. In a slice of life story they would be nothing but an eyeroll, but in the worlds that he creates, they fit perfectly. He's brilliant at that.

"in the worlds that he creates." That's what's had me a little on the edge on the thread discussion thus far. If the author creates a "world"/atmosphere that is "off" in terms of current reality but is consistent within itself, I don't think that real-life believability is necessary. Is it believable within the alternate world the author creates?

That's a basic issue in my GM stories. They are set in a world in which homosexuality and active gay life are not only acceptable, but they also are pretty much the world of the story. Establishing that saves me the time and effort of dealing with the story's culture as something off to the side or has to be rationalized with each story. I think if I've been successful in creating that world separate from current reality, the story should be assessed in terms of that world being legitimate for that story. (And if you aren't willing/capable of doing that, you should go read somewhere else.)

 

[Heartfeltman]

I agree that this is really a matter of taste, but when I saw this thread started yesterday, I immediately thought of Magic.
The quickest way to lose me within the context of erotica is through magic, mind control, or body swaps. Those feel too fanciful for my taste, and I have no doubt they're the first stop for many other readers.

I confess I stayed away from the Celebrity/Fan fiction collection of stories because I found it implausible that Salma Hayek is going to have an insatiable appetite and happens upon our hapless bellhop or waiter.

And then there's the quality of the writing. The ability to tell a story in a fluid and engaging manner The alternatives are distracting.

I am a huge fan of this site and have the utmost respect for the writers I find here. I learn quite a bit by reading those who are much better writers than I am.

 

[KeithD]

As I've written this post, I realise I don't understand what you mean at all. Erotica without personality? I don't think I ever seen an example of that.

Erotica is the sexual arousal. I don't think your characters need much personality at all revealed in a story for the story to be good erotica. Does it have sexual heat? I've toyed with this--not requiring developed characters for the story to be erotica. I've even done what I thought was erotic where you can't even quite discern the gender of the players.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I’ve read a little Terry Pratchett. I must confess I’ve never gotten deep into his work. The style turns me off and the characters don’t hold my interest. Maybe he’s before my time. On the other hand, his daughter Rihanna? She wrote the most compelling Tomb Raider video game (and one of the best action games in general) I’ve ever played.

Rhianna Pratchett is great.

Discworld takes a while to hit its stride. The early books are kind of Monty Python meets Hitch-Hiker's meets D&D, cute but basically popcorn reading, and that's where I stopped for a long time. But after that it gets a lot more thoughtful and relevant, e.g. "Night Watch" does a lot of musing about how one draws a line between policing and tyranny.

 

[AchtungNight]

I agree that this is really a matter of taste, but when I saw this thread started yesterday, I immediately thought of Magic.
The quickest way to lose me within the context of erotica is through magic, mind control, or body swaps. Those feel too fanciful for my taste, and I have no doubt they're the first stop for many other readers.

I confess I stayed away from the Celebrity/Fan fiction collection of stories because I found it implausible that Salma Hayek is going to have an insatiable appetite and happens upon our hapless bellhop or waiter.

And then there's the quality of the writing. The ability to tell a story in a fluid and engaging manner The alternatives are distracting.

I am a huge fan of this site and have the utmost respect for the writers I find here. I learn quite a bit by reading those who are much better writers than I am.

Not sure what Salma Hayek story you are referencing, but that doesn’t sound like anything I’ve ever read or written.

My own celebrity stories are different. “Compensation” is about Lindsay Pagano getting close with a roadie whose work she appreciates. “Inside Out” has an entertainment mogul get into a casual relationship with Keira Knightley after she helps him establish a London nightclub. “Confessions”, “Rekindled”, “A Step Up”, “Rendezvous”, and a few other stories I’ve written are about actresses making friends with their co-stars and wanting to take the relationship further to friends with benefits. “Two Cats in Heat” is about athletes doing the same thing.

Yes, I’ve had actresses pick up guys in bars and have fun with them on multiple occasions, but it’s not out of an insatiable appetite. My characters enjoy sex, but there’s no addiction involved. Well, maybe a few brief overtones of a very comfortable addiction, but that’s it. The characters enjoy what they’re doing and I strive to keep their stories realistic, entertaining, and engaging. I also throw in crazy fetishes now and then. Some celebrities enjoy anal, I’ve featured one fister, and don’t get me started on some characters’ kinks. Most of the time, though, I’m pretty vanilla if you don’t count the bisexual female polyamory with a few lucky straight guys. Certain bisexual and gay men have also been featured, they just have yet to get detailed action with each other yet. I might get into it someday. And there have been a few straight women too- my depictions of Lindsay Pagano & Eva Mendes are straight. Same for Alicia Witt, Erika Christensen, Busy Phillips, & Rachel McAdams prior to their bisexual awakenings. Everything I do is consensual and fun for the characters, though I will play around with dubious consent from time to time (see Eliza Dushku ambushing a paparazzo in “Hunters & Prey”). I hope the readers enjoy it too.

Sorry for the rant, I’m just not into having my genre dissed so casually. Hope you understand. If you want to give it a chance, feel free.

 

[Heartfeltman]

Not sure what Salma Hayek story you are referencing, but that doesn’t sound like anything I’ve ever read or written.

My own celebrity stories are different. “Compensation” is about Lindsay Pagano getting close with a roadie whose work she appreciates. “Inside Out” has an entertainment mogul get into a casual relationship with Keira Knightley after she helps him establish a London nightclub. “Confessions”, “Rekindled”, “A Step Up”, “Rendezvous”, and a few other stories I’ve written are about actresses making friends with their co-stars and wanting to take the relationship further to friends with benefits. “Two Cats in Heat” is about athletes doing the same thing.

Yes, I’ve had actresses pick up guys in bars and have fun with them on multiple occasions, but it’s not out of an insatiable appetite. My characters enjoy sex, but there’s no addiction involved. Well, maybe a few brief overtones of a very comfortable addiction, but that’s it. The characters enjoy what they’re doing and I strive to keep their stories realistic, entertaining, and engaging. I also throw in crazy fetishes now and then. Some celebrities enjoy anal, I’ve featured one fister, and don’t get me started on some characters’ kinks. Most of the time, though, I’m pretty vanilla if you don’t count the bisexual female polyamory with a few lucky straight guys. Certain bisexual and gay men have also been featured, they just have yet to get detailed action with each other yet. I might get into it someday. And there have been a few straight women too- my depictions of Lindsay Pagano & Eva Mendes are straight. Same for Alicia Witt, Erika Christensen, Busy Phillips, & Rachel McAdams prior to their bisexual awakenings. Everything I do is consensual and fun for the characters, though I will play around with dubious consent from time to time (see Eliza Dushku ambushing a paparazzo in “Hunters & Prey”). I hope the readers enjoy it too.

Sorry for the rant, I’m just not into having my genre dissed so casually. Hope you understand. If you want to give it a chance, feel free.

My apologies.
I have had virtually no experience with the celebrity/fan fiction genre and have avoided it out of a lack of exposure to writers like yourself. I am opening up my horizons with respect to what I'm reading here and look forward to enjoying your work.

Best.
Heartfelt

 

[NoTalentHack]

Sorry... relatively new as an active forumer. What's LW? And how is it a minefield?

Why, I believe that’s my cue.

LW, as was pointed out earlier, is a battleground. The three “factions” listed before are accurate, but there’s sooooo much more going on. There’s the “too much sex/no sex” axis, the “violence” gradient, the “move on” faction (which overlaps a bit but not as much as you’d think with BTB) and on and on.

As a result, finding good stuff in there is hard; that’s not to say there isn’t good stuff in there, at all, but the scoring system is almost no help. Certainly not if realism is your standard. There’s a whole bunch of genre tropes like the “Martian Slut Ray” (a previously loyal wife cheating for a truly stupid reason) that are there to drive the story. Not everyone uses them, nor does everyone that uses them do so for all their stories, but they exist.

I write primarily in there, and I try to focus on character and motivation, with mostly believable scenarios. There are others that do or have, too. Off the top of my head, I’d recommend ohio, bruce1971, GirlInTheMoon, Jidoka, javmor79, jezzaz, RichardGerald, Dreamcloud, BigGuy33, AmberSolis, norafares, WanderingMongol, and I’m sure I’m missing a bunch more. Your sort of “target” rating is somewhere in about the 3.9s to the 4.6s; that’s still not a perfect guarantor, but you’re going to see a lot of stuff just below that that are mediocre BTB stories, stuff way below that that are mediocre sharing or cuck stories, and stuff above that that is manly men doing manly things a la men’s adventure novels. Not always, but often.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Why, I believe that’s my cue.

LW, as was pointed out earlier, is a battleground. The three “factions” listed before are accurate, but there’s sooooo much more going on. There’s the “too much sex/no sex” axis, the “violence” gradient, the “move on” faction (which overlaps a bit but not as much as you’d think with BTB) and on and on.

As a result, finding good stuff in there is hard; that’s not to say there isn’t good stuff in there, at all, but the scoring system is almost no help. Certainly not if realism is your standard. There’s a whole bunch of genre tropes like the “Martian Slut Ray” (a previously loyal wife cheating for a truly stupid reason) that are there to drive the story. Not everyone uses them, nor does everyone that uses them do so for all their stories, but they exist.

I write primarily in there, and I try to focus on character and motivation, with mostly believable scenarios. There are others that do or have, too. Off the top of my head, I’d recommend ohio, bruce1971, GirlInTheMoon, Jidoka, javmor79, jezzaz, RichardGerald, Dreamcloud, BigGuy33, AmberSolis, norafares, WanderingMongol, and I’m sure I’m missing a bunch more. Your sort of “target” rating is somewhere in about the 3.9s to the 4.6s; that’s still not a perfect guarantor, but you’re going to see a lot of stuff just below that that are mediocre BTB stories, stuff way below that that are mediocre sharing or cuck stories, and stuff above that that is manly men doing manly things a la men’s adventure novels. Not always, but often.

There is an utter gem with a 3.34 rating of course.

Em

 

[ishtat]

What stories have you read that were really satisfying because they were believable and well constructed?

Also, do you have any methods for searching out the best stories?

Almost everything written by Black Shanglan is exceptional. Even when far fetched, it was not so when he/she took the reader into the authors story world. Of more recent writers MelissaBaby is up there; one or two glitches, but rare, and usually due to stretching her own writing ambitions. There are many other good writers but those two recommendations will do for now.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

"in the worlds that he creates." That's what's had me a little on the edge on the thread discussion thus far. If the author creates a "world"/atmosphere that is "off" in terms of current reality but is consistent within itself, I don't think that real-life believability is necessary. Is it believable within the alternate world the author creates?

Yes, you get me completely here.

 

[AchtungNight]

Lots of battlegrounds in Loving Wives indeed, and sometimes they spill over into other categories. I’ve had a number of readers get on me for being overly long winded, the occasional spelling or grammar error, even a few continuity mistakes. Some I’ve recovered from- I did have a research fail in the original version of ‘Debrief’. Others I can’t really be blamed for- if Brian Warner isn’t really a Satanist he needs to stop letting his Marilyn Manson persona merge with his real life. :sigh: Not easy to create other worlds sometimes, or to make people get involved with them. Glad I’ve mostly had an easy time of it here.

A lot of my stories remain mid range to high score with few overall votes, however. It’s why I consider them hidden gems.

 

[Sexecclectic]

True, but I've ran into many many more with the same attitude. You and the vast majority of AH regulars haven't. You're not in the chat.

You see, most of us draw our conclusions on what the readers want based on feedback votes and comments. Well, if you analyze that data it's a very small sample. Let's say that you have a story with 10,000 hits, 100 votes and 12 comments. The folks who comment on your story will tell you that they liked your plot because folks who are into plot are far more inclined to comment. So you write a great plot (because most of us here in the AH are into plot and characters with our smut, that's why we like to talk literary here) and the majority of your comments and feedback is overwhelmingly positive, and based on that you conclude that plot is popular.

What about the other 99% who hit your story and didn't even vote let alone toss you a bouquet? You bored them with your plot. That's what.

The vast majority of the authors on lit barely know that the AH even exists, and they write the bulk of the stroke sheets, let alone the readers who read them. Where do their readers hang out? A good deal of them hang out in chat. I hang out in chat from time to time and I know the mentality, trust me. Now certainly a cross section of chat attitudes can't be considered super accurate parallel to the 99% of the readership who remain anonymous, but it is by far the closest comparison that we have. Let me tell you, they don't like plot. Oh, here and there some appreciate it but by and large, they hate it. They tell me so straight up. They're bored with my plot. "Why can't it just all be sex?" "Loved chapter 3! (hot sex in the bathroom stall), bored with chapter 1 (meeting the cast of characters)" "Boner killer!" Most of the folks in chat have been lurking reading the stories for years until they one day realize that there's a chat, so they wander into chat looking for the exact same smut that they're looking for in the stories. Now there are all kinds in the chat, but there is an overwhelming tendency to get to the fapping and dispense with the buildup. They also tell their personal fantasies and with no exaggeration 98% of them involve a guy literally getting lucky with a unicorn.

Now many of the folks here in AH don't want to hear this as it may damage an ego chuffed on the notion that the masses love them because of their skill on the smut and story sides equally, but I'm telling you, by and large, the anonymous masses are scrolling scrolling scrolling over your carefully crafted plot to get to the action, and if they have to scroll too much or too far, they're hitting the back button.

Am i saying that we shouldn't write plot? Fuck no. I write what I want. I don't pander. Just don't kid yourself if you think that your plot motive and character development is winning over the masses. It's not.

I can relate to your point about scrolling over the plot to get to the action. I’m that crazy person who is the opposite. I become bored with endless detailed descriptions of sex acts. I don’t need a full page describing a blow job, for me it’s more interesting to know why someone gave/received that bj. I wind up scrolling through lengthy descriptions to see what ramifications the sex had on the lives of those involved. Where did they find themselves mentally and emotionally after the action.

 

[Sexecclectic]

View attachment 2272993

The reason I cited these sentences as a reason why the stories were, for me, not "intelligent," has to do with being "in the moment" (see pink_silk_glove's reply in this thread (I wish we could get links to individual replies):

"There's a phrase that you will see often that goes "takes me out of the moment". Most of the time this is what jars people out of a story and may make someone feel 'talked down to' or insulted that the writer expected them to believe what happened."

When I hit these awkward sounding sentences, it took me "out of the moment."

You’ve made some really good points on clarification AG31. In reading your comments, as well as so many others, I’ve come to better understand my own thoughts on this.

Using the term “intelligent” was the wrong word to have used, someone in this thread suggested the term “well crafted” and that is first and foremost. Your phrase “takes me out of the moment” is also spot on. For myself, a well crafted story is one where actions and behaviors are consistent. The story line can be outrageous, edgy and even unrealistic…but be consistent. But that’s just me, someone else can feel totally different on the matter, and that’s good too.

This has been a great thread to follow. I had no idea my simple question would start such enjoyable conversations. I’ve learned a lot reading everyone’s comments. And the discussions have been fair and good spirited. Thank you all.

 

[holliday1960]

You’ve made some really good points on clarification AG31. In reading your comments, as well as so many others, I’ve come to better understand my own thoughts on this.

Using the term “intelligent” was the wrong word to have used, someone in this thread suggested the term “well crafted” and that is first and foremost. Your phrase “takes me out of the moment” is also spot on. For myself, a well crafted story is one where actions and behaviors are consistent. The story line can be outrageous, edgy and even unrealistic…but be consistent. But that’s just me, someone else can feel totally different on the matter, and that’s good too.

This has been a great thread to follow. I had no idea my simple question would start such enjoyable conversations. I’ve learned a lot reading everyone’s comments. And the discussions have been fair and good spirited. Thank you all.

Mostly, I understand and agree with what you're trying to say. For me, consistency in writing means I'm not falling into holes where punctuation and grammar are either completely void, or else cluttering the page. There's a point where stylized writing affects the way a story reads. That takes me out of the story. Now, character development? Humans are seldom consistent in their behavior and to have page after page or story after story of repetitious behavior then becomes predictable and boring. The shock value is in humans that do things out of the norm, spontaneously, if you will. For me, that keeps stories fresh and interesting. But again, that's just one opinion.

 

[8letters]

:
Discworld takes a while to hit its stride. The early books are kind of Monty Python meets Hitch-Hiker's meets D&D, cute but basically popcorn reading, and that's where I stopped for a long time. But after that it gets a lot more thoughtful and relevant, e.g. "Night Watch" does a lot of musing about how one draws a line between policing and tyranny.

When I read the OP, I thought the poster was talking about stories that make you think or teach you something. The third story on their list is about detecting art forgeries. I didn't find the story interesting, but learning about detecting art forgeries was. The second story on their list is about life in rural 1910 America. Of AlwaysWantedTo's stories, a lot of my favorites are the ones with canoeing as I have never seriously canoed and find the details about canoeing interesting.

 

[8letters]

:
You see, most of us draw our conclusions on what the readers want based on feedback votes and comments. Well, if you analyze that data it's a very small sample. Let's say that you have a story with 10,000 hits, 100 votes and 12 comments. The folks who comment on your story will tell you that they liked your plot because folks who are into plot are far more inclined to comment. So you write a great plot (because most of us here in the AH are into plot and characters with our smut, that's why we like to talk literary here) and the majority of your comments and feedback is overwhelmingly positive, and based on that you conclude that plot is popular.

What about the other 99% who hit your story and didn't even vote let alone toss you a bouquet? You bored them with your plot. That's what.

I view it as 90% of the people who read my stories don't vote, don't favor, and don't leave comments. Then there are the 10% who might vote, favor, or comment if the story hits them just right. I don't give a shit about the first group. I don't care if I bored them with my plot. I don't care if they just skip ahead to the sex scenes. I don't care if my style of writing makes them quickly hit "Back" on their browser. They have chosen to ghost themselves; to not leave a trace that they have opened my story beyond giving it one more click on the view counter. If they aren't willing to take the few seconds to vote, I'm not going to take the few seconds to think about them.

OTOH, I think a lot about the 10% who might vote, favor, or comment. They are the ones who determine the success of my stories. Their votes, favorites, and comments are used by the 90% to determine if they'll read my story. And, as far as I can tell, those people like my plots.

 

[AG31]

Fare enough. Fair enough? hum which is which? Fair enough, is right. Get-go grap or nada, gotchya.

The older I get the more I screw up those homonyms.

 

[AG31]

I like there is an improvement between my early and later stories.

But I suppose every author says that too. .

Actually, I think my first story is my best. But I think that has to do with "having a story in you." Once you get it out, the next ones, done more self-consciously, aren't as compelling. But, for sure, if we're talking craft here, rather than inspiration, you're right... one hopes.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Using the term “intelligent” was the wrong word to have used, someone in this thread suggested the term “well crafted” and that is first and foremost. Your phrase “takes me out of the moment” is also spot on. For myself, a well crafted story is one where actions and behaviors are consistent. The story line can be outrageous, edgy and even unrealistic…but be consistent. But that’s just me, someone else can feel totally different on the matter, and that’s good too.

I tend to agree. Those are the stories I read. I particularly avoid stories that have verbage like described earlier in this discussion about he woman's eyes scanning the room as if cataloging it etc.... A simple, 'she paused to scan the room before she replied." would have been more to my liking.
In my first story published here, Cajun's stick together, I used an description of the MC's marriage being on life support and and how he was going to pull the plug and end it in the most painful manner. I used that because it was totally consistent with the MC who was a cardiac critical care nurse.

 

[Vintage_DM]

I’ve read so many stories on Literotica over the years I’ve lost count, many of them weren’t very good. It’s really hard to find authors or stories that don’t insult your intelligence. This is a site geared mostly for amateurs, so I understand why they’re hard to find. Good authors are easier to pinpoint and I can name many who consistently deliver the goods, like Penelope Street, MelissaBaby, bi_cathy, Carson Shepherd and Chasten.

What stories have you read that were really satisfying because they were believable and well constructed?

Also, do you have any methods for searching out the best stories? I’ve found the rating system isn’t always your friend for finding top notch works. I’ve read some stories below 4 that were really good, and many rated over 4.5 that weren’t so good.

To start the thread my examples of stories that don’t insult are below. Full disclosure, they’re stories first with sex as a part of the story. But stories that are mostly sex can work, if well written.

https://literotica.com/s/the-bridge-over-wilsons-creek

https://literotica.com/s/the-corner-table-at-mickeys-pt-01

https://www.literotica.com/s/art-of-deception

From my observation, many but certainly not all, the posts in Non-Con & LW verge on the impossible. I've written a few stories and posted them in Romance, in part because they a foot touching the ground. But stories posted in Romance get a small audience. One of the very best stories I've seen here is Bandit, which is posted in the Mature section. The has been viewed in excess of 384. K times with a star rating of 4.89. A suggestion, when you are looking for a story a good hint is the star rating. That tells what others think of the story and of course the comments the story has generated.

 

[ThatNewGuy]

I stumbled on this thread today and was surprised to see one of my stories listed in the OP. Very cool! Thanks for the shoutout, @Sexecclectic. I'm happy the story struck a chord with you.

The third story on their list is about detecting art forgeries. I didn't find the story interesting, but learning about detecting art forgeries was.

I had a lot of fun learning about forgeries and forensic art detectives for this story. It's fascinating stuff. Glad you enjoyed that bit.

I particularly avoid stories that have verbage like described earlier in this discussion about he woman's eyes scanning the room as if cataloging it etc.... A simple, 'she paused to scan the room before she replied." would have been more to my liking.

Absolutely fair. I also prefer simple, spare descriptions. I tend to write that way unless I have a reason not to. The reason for this particular sentence was to foreshadow the twist later in the story. *Spoiler* The woman visiting the art detective's office is a forger. She's essentially casing the place and sizing up the opposition. The intention of that sentence was to plant a seed in the reader's head (why would she be cataloging the office's contents?) that would be harvested after the reveal (ahh...because she's meticulous and wanted to know what she was up against). Maybe that didn't work for some readers and just sounded like the writer inserting their voice into the story. If so, that's a completely valid criticism. Just thought you might be interested in the "why" behind it.

 

[MajorRewrite]

From my observation, many but certainly not all, the posts in Non-Con & LW verge on the impossible.

I don’t mind stories that verge on the impossible. My favorite plots put the characters in an unusual/unlikely/weird situation but the characters react in a realistic way to the odd situation.

If the characters act like morons or robots simply to advance the plot, I’m out of there.

 

[theWollstonecraftWoman]

I read a Western sort story on Medium, which was maybe 2000 - 2300 words, and one comment on the story, "It's too long. It should be cut up into two or three stories." WTF is wrong with people that they can't spend more than 7 or 8 minutes on a story?

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I read a Western sort story on Medium, which was maybe 2000 - 2300 words, and one comment on the story, "It's too long. It should be cut up into two or three stories." WTF is wrong with people that they can't spend more than 7 or 8 minutes on a story?

Wow. I am almost embarrassed to say that I don't even look at stories that are below 7-8k words. And it is a bare minimum for me to even click on a story with all the right tags.

 

[djrip]

I stumbled on this thread today and was surprised to see one of my stories listed in the OP. Very cool! Thanks for the shoutout, @Sexecclectic. I'm happy the story struck a chord with you.



I had a lot of fun learning about forgeries and forensic art detectives for this story. It's fascinating stuff. Glad you enjoyed that bit.



Absolutely fair. I also prefer simple, spare descriptions. I tend to write that way unless I have a reason not to. The reason for this particular sentence was to foreshadow the twist later in the story. *Spoiler* The woman visiting the art detective's office is a forger. She's essentially casing the place and sizing up the opposition. The intention of that sentence was to plant a seed in the reader's head (why would she be cataloging the office's contents?) that would be harvested after the reveal (ahh...because she's meticulous and wanted to know what she was up against). Maybe that didn't work for some readers and just sounded like the writer inserting their voice into the story. If so, that's a completely valid criticism. Just thought you might be interested in the "why" behind it.

I can't understand quitting a story over a 5-10 word description of a character scanning a room, at all. Bizarre, really. I guess I could understand if the style is overly descriptive and wordy throughout, but that's something I'd realize over paragraphs or a page. If it got to be too much, sure I could see someone deciding it's not for them. But noping out over one particular clause in a sentence? Weird.