Is erotica sexual harassment?

[TarnishedPenny]

I think one question should be asked. At some level of specific detail, it could certainly become actionable on the part of the person described, but why on Earth would anybody need or want to make it that detailed?

 

[gunhilltrain]

Let's put it this way...


10 - You can completely justify any errors by prefacing your story with one of those dumb disclaimers, saying, "Any Resemblance To Person's Real Or Living Is Completely Coincidental".

That's like that old Dragnet ending, which was something like, "The case you have just seen is true. The names were changed to protect the innocent."

I suppose some things like arrest records and court cases may be in the "public domain." Jack Webb probably knew what he could and couldn't do.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Duplicate post removed.

 

[madelinemasoch]

This is frustrating, because I feel like there’s no way to tell if what I wanna do is okay or not. Like I said, I like being really detailed: describing things like the way a character inspired by the person and vice versa talks and their basic features as well as more specific ones. I don’t know if that could get me in trouble.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I think it's needless paranoia. You're assuming that everyone who reads your content will visualise your characters exactly as you see them in your mind's eye, down to the very last, photographic, detail. You're also assuming that your writing is so evocative that a complete stranger (that is, me the reader) will recognise another complete stranger from a story.

The whole notion of "recognition" is, to be frank, absurd. The only people who will know the inspirations for your characters will be you, and those individuals who might recognise themselves IF they read your content. Every other reader won't know the "originals" from a bar of soap, won't care, won't believe they're real anyway.

I'm also assuming that the "originals" have no clue who madelinemasoch is in real life, that you won't be telling them, "Hey, I'm writing erotic fantasies about you."

I think you're spectacularly over-thinking this.

After reading these various posts, including the OP, I get the notion that they are feeling some kind of agita or paranoia about their experiences being "too close to home." Probably it is overthinking, but I haven't read the stories. I don't worry much because I'm so old that anything "real" I write about may be decades ago. Besides, I'm not going to be around long enough to care. This person must be younger than I am and the experiences might be much more recent. Something is bothering them that is mostly unspecified here. That is entirely speculation on my part, if I may insert my own disclaimer.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

This is frustrating, because I feel like there’s no way to tell if what I wanna do is okay or not. Like I said, I like being really detailed: describing things like the way a character inspired by the person and vice versa talks and their basic features as well as more specific ones. I don’t know if that could get me in trouble.

The practical advice is: change the names and you are good. Describing a person doesn't mean that much as there are always multiple persons who could fit the description. This is an eight billion people planet, after all. So just don't use the real names and don't use the real location, as that is also a sure way of identifying a person. Everything else is fine, IMO.

 

[madelinemasoch]

After reading these various posts, including the OP, I get the notion that they are feeling some kind of agita or paranoia about their experiences being "too close to home." Probably it is overthinking, but I haven't read the stories. I don't worry much because I'm so old that anything "real" I write about may be decades ago. Besides, I'm not going to be around long enough to care. This person must be younger than I am and the experiences might be much more recent. Something is bothering them that is mostly unspecified here.

I should probably specify that I don’t wanna write about real events that actually happened, only what I wish would happen with specific people.

 

[STrent]

I should probably specify that I don’t wanna write about real events that actually happened, only what I wish would happen with specific people.

Right…so real people, fictional events?

Just change the names. If you write it for yourself, keep it private. When you go to publish, change the names. Simples.

 

[madelinemasoch]

Right…so real people, fictional events?

Just change the names. If you write it for yourself, keep it private. When you go to publish, change the names. Simples.

There couldn’t possibly be issues with that even with the names changed?

 

[MillieDynamite]

I got to this party rather late, but I see nothing wrong with using real people and actual events as inspiration. Changing names and locations, not using every particular, but keeping the story close to the real deal, lifts the tale above the "this can't happen" bar. I could be wrong, but I don't think so, 'Cause it's a jungle out there.

 

[SimonDoom]

This is frustrating, because I feel like there’s no way to tell if what I wanna do is okay or not. Like I said, I like being really detailed: describing things like the way a character inspired by the person and vice versa talks and their basic features as well as more specific ones. I don’t know if that could get me in trouble.

I'm a bit puzzled about why you are frustrated. Consider your specific case, whatever it is. Can't you determine, through the exercise of good judgment, what level of detail would reasonably expose this person to being identified? You should be able to do that. Once you figure out what that level of detail is, then you have your answer: don't provide that much detail. Provide less. Once you have reached a level of detail/generality where there is no reasonable prospect that people reading your story are going to say, "Hey, that's X!" then you should be OK.

But in going through this process, make sure you err on the side of care for this person, not for your own personal kinky wishes. Be prudent, and be kind.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Okay, this really isn’t rocket science.

Let’s say you are inspired by somebody you’ve met, to the extent that you want to include them as a character in a story.

If you write about an athletic blonde woman with curly hair, that’s maybe ten million people and it’s hard to say that anyone could claim they’ve been embarrassed.

On the other hand, if you meet Christie, a woman 5’ 10” tall, with short-cut strawberry-blonde hair, a tattoo of a monkey on her left hand, who coaches field hockey and drives a red Ford Fusion to her job as a teller at the big Home Depot just off Highway 12, you’d certainly be risking something by writing all that, because there aren’t many people like that. If a friend reads your story and asks her if, say, she really does enjoy getting spitroasted in the public park, it’s far more likely that she’ll be talking to a lawyer.

How how to stay clear? Write her as being slightly shorter and with brown hair or say she drives a Jeep or works at Costco. It’s pretty common sense.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

This is frustrating, because I feel like there’s no way to tell if what I wanna do is okay or not. Like I said, I like being really detailed: describing things like the way a character inspired by the person and vice versa talks and their basic features as well as more specific ones. I don’t know if that could get me in trouble.

Yes, there is. Just because a bunch of strangers on the internet, who like to post stories that get "inspiration" from real people in their lives refuse to say so, doesn't mean that there isn't.

The mere fact that you FEEL like it could get you in trouble should be enough to tell you: You COULD get into trouble for it.

People have told you, very clearly: If you are SO descriptive that people could be recognized, you have a problem. And the moment the people you write about are confronted with ANY kind of reputational damage or backlash from your "fictional" tales, you have a REAL problem. It's as simple as that.

Now, you can weasel around the probability of your stories getting discovered... but, correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that you already had to pull your entire catalog of stories from here because "it was too dangerous for you to post them publicly".

 

[SimonDoom]

There couldn’t possibly be issues with that even with the names changed?

YES, there could be an issue, IF based on all the detail you provide aside from names real people in the real world might reasonably read your story and identify the person you are writing about.

This is an issue people get wrong in this forum a lot. They think there's one little formalistic thing they can do that will insulate them from liability or accusations of unethical behavior. E.g, "It's OK if I use 2 lines from the song, but not 3 lines." It doesn't work that way.

You have to use your judgment and reason. The bottom line is whether there's a realistic prospect of identifying and therefore embarrassing, hurting, or defaming a real person. That's the ultimate test, and the only way to answer the question is to look at all the specific facts in your situation and deciding for yourself how the question is answered.

People who say, "Just change the names" are not giving you good advice. That's terrible advice IF besides the different names you provide so many details about the character that track exactly with the real life person that people will know who the person is. Use judgment.

 

[MillieDynamite]

A friend of my father's was threatened with a lawsuit because his last name was Newsome. He felt he was defamed by a story featuring his California family in this friend's novel about a cursed Maine family. My father's buddy responded, "Sue away. You can't copyright or trademark your last name or even your first and last name. I can and have copyrighted my stories, so tread lightly in what you claim in this stupid endeavor. If you violate my copyright, I will sue you."

 

[StillStunned]

This is frustrating, because I feel like there’s no way to tell if what I wanna do is okay or not. Like I said, I like being really detailed: describing things like the way a character inspired by the person and vice versa talks and their basic features as well as more specific ones. I don’t know if that could get me in trouble.

The fact that you're asking sort of implies that you know the answer. Clearly you understand that this person might not be OK with it. So either ask that person, or don't do it. Perhaps not for legal reasons, but at least out of consideration for that person's feelings.

 

[lustychimera]

There couldn’t possibly be issues with that even with the names changed?

Don't trust any legal advice you get from anybody other than a lawyer if that is your main concern.

I previously assumed you were taking mainly about morality.

There are websites where you can ask about your specific circumstance and a lawyer will answer your question for fairly cheap.

If you want to chat, that's what we're here for.

If you want legal answers, they are not and never will be on this site.

 

[gunhilltrain]

There couldn’t possibly be issues with that even with the names changed?

I don't know anything about you except what you have on this site. In this thread, I detect a great uneasiness and you've specifically asked for our advice and opinions several times. There is a conundrum with most of us here in that we feel relief in getting our thoughts out and yet most of us - I am certainly one - remain anonymous, which is probably a good thing. Plus, I don't know anybody in real life I'd let read my stuff. Most of them passed a long time ago anyway. Yet I'm sure that many of us - I know I do - have a deepest level of secrets not to be revealed.

I did notice that you deleted all of your existing stories, which is notable. I'd guess that you are not going to get into any sort of real "trouble." Is this an internal conflict within yourself? That's okay, because many of us go through the same thing.

 

[MillieDynamite]

There is a great uneasiness in the Writing Force. As if a million writers cried out, "But it's only a story," and were dragged into court to silence them forever.

I don't know anything about you except what you have on this site. In this thread, I detect a great uneasiness and you've specifically asked for our advice and opinions several times. There is a conundrum with most of us here in that we feel relief in getting our thoughts out and yet most of us - I am certainly one - remain anonymous, which is probably a good thing. Plus, I don't know anybody in real life I'd let read my stuff. Most of them passed a long time ago anyway. Yet I'm sure that many of us - I know I do - have a deepest level of secrets not to be revealed.

I did notice that you deleted all of your existing stories, which is notable. I'd guess that you are not going to get into any sort of real "trouble." Is this an internal conflict within yourself? That's okay, because many of us go through the same thing.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I should probably specify that I don’t wanna write about real events that actually happened, only what I wish would happen with specific people.

That gives a clue about actual advice. How close are you to these people and how likely are they to know about or even read anything you've posted? You don't have to tell me, it's just something to consider for yourself.

When I was young, there was no social media - maybe a good thing! Had there been a Literotica back then, I might have been more careful about identifying my location, both through my bio and through my stories. You seem to have done a pretty good job hiding that.

I don't worry any more because: The few people who know I write are wrapped up in their own issues and are indifferent to whatever I'm doing on-line.

 

[gunhilltrain]

There is a great uneasiness in the Writing Force. As if a million writers cried out, "But it's only a story," and were dragged into court to silence them forever.

A million young poets screaming out their words
To a world full of people just living to be heard.

Anyway, I was trying to take their concerns seriously, although court cases are so unlikely. I did inadvertently have a character named Holly Sykes, just like the one in the novel The Bone Clocks. Sit waiting to hear a complaint from David Mitchell.

 

[KeithD]

This is frustrating, because I feel like there’s no way to tell if what I wanna do is okay or not. Like I said, I like being really detailed: describing things like the way a character inspired by the person and vice versa talks and their basic features as well as more specific ones. I don’t know if that could get me in trouble.

If you're saying you want to be detailed with a real, identified people in an erotica story, then the answer is just "no." I can't see of an acceptable reason for doing so.

 

[madelinemasoch]

If you're saying you want to be detailed with a real, identified people in an erotica story, then the answer is just "no." I can't see of an acceptable reason for doing so.

Let me ask you a question then: are all your characters taken out of thin air/made up out of whole cloth, without any resemblance to real people you’ve seen?

 

[gunhilltrain]

Let me ask you a question then: are all your characters taken out of thin air/made up out of whole cloth, without any resemblance to real people you’ve seen?

I think that is what I meant about your social situation. That hypothetical about Lit existing in the 1970's: I might have been young and dumb enough to use my college newspaper as a setting. (There was certainly enough material for it.) And I might have blabbed/bragged about certain things because that was a time when "edgy" material (R. Crumb was a prime example) was "hip." So, yeah, I would have been - or should have been - more careful than now, when the building is demolished, the newspaper long gone, and I haven't seen those people in decades.

So only you can decide how close you are to this situation. I don't have to worry about creating characters out of whole cloth or not because it's just not relevant any longer.

 

[MillieDynamite]

You should be so lucky!

A million young poets screaming out their words
To a world full of people just living to be heard.

Anyway, I was trying to take their concerns seriously, although court cases are so unlikely. I did inadvertently have a character named Holly Sykes, just like the one in the novel The Bone Clocks. Sit waiting to hear a complaint from David Mitchell.