It's time to say "homosexual" instead of "bisexual"

[Nirvanadragones]

I have always despised the stench smell of coffee. I have never liked corn bread. I never liked the taste of alcohol. (I didn't mind the smell, but the taste was always a dissapointment as well as disliking the warm feeling as it goes down your throat.)

On the other hand, I have always loved the smell of roses, coconut, cinnamon, nutmeg, vanilla, chocolate. I have always loved strong warm winds and the warm glow of the afternoon western sun that come during certain times of the year. I love strawberry/rhurbarb pie, mangoes, carrot cake with cream cheese (cheesy/not overly sweet) frosting.

I know these things about myself. I have known them from the moment I was exposed to them. They were not acquired taste; they were natural for me. Sure, I may always be told, I would prefer chocolate cake if I just tried so-and-so's receipt. While some are SO good, I'd be lying to say that I would prefer it over carrot cake.


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Although i think we agree on a lot, (we merely have different ways of expressing ourselves) I am not comfortable with having sexual orientation/ preference compared to the likes and dislikes of food.

 

[Nirvanadragones]

You are not making sense to me when say you don't want to pigion-hole people, yet you want to use the "orientation" label on a person's sexuality. My sexuality is mine. I own it. Preference isn't about fluidity; it's is about empowerment and liberation. Whereas orientation isn't just about "inherent and unchangeable"; it's about disabling one's sexuality. The attitude of: "You got to love me cause I cannot help how I am." When the actual argument should be that you should love me for who I am inside -- regardless if my preferences are different from yours just today or forever. If you cannot love me for who I am, than it is your loss. I am not "A" gay, "A" male, "A" white, "An" age, "A" tall person, "A" certain religion, "A" certain whatever. I do not have a "gay" soul, a "male" soul, a "white" soul, etc. Rather I'm a sentient being who happens to be a tall, white, gay, male, a certain religion, etc. All these things influcence who I am, but not one of them define me nor will I let them. .

One more thing, 10 years of writing learning material, and facilitating diversity training Has taught me that the words we use (clinical words) are necesarry for educational purpose. Words like "orientation" and " preference" when used objectively are necesarry, and not a label.

 

[Moon Dragon]

I'm proposing that we be more precise in the language we use. Particularly, I'm hoping that we'll start using the correct terms for different types of pairings. If two people of the same sex are engaged in sexual activity, that is homosexual activity. It's not bisexual activity. A person's sexual orientation might be bisexual. They might have sex with two people at the same time, one of each sex, and we should call that a bisexual experience. But I think that it sounds silly, and self-deceptively untruthful to say that you had a bi experience when you had a homosexual experience. I think many people are uncomfortable with saying that about themselves. But the fact is that if a guy has sex with another guy, even if they're both married and basically straight, that experience is a homosexual experience. Homosexual = same sex. I think it's a losing battle, but I'm making the case anyway. When a person says they're looking for their first bi experience, they're really not. They're looking for their first homosexual experience. It's just a more honest and accurate way of talking. That's all. xo, S.

I agree. I was just thinking about this the other day.

 

[killallhippies]

queer is a fun word. i likes it muchly. this thread is silly.

 

[69forever]

2 1/2 or so years ago, when I first started posting there was a huge discussion somewhat the same. Not questioning if one term was "more honest"/accurately reflected a persons orientation. It does come down to semantics and is all relative, depending on each persons perspective. IMHO.

Back then I was trying to come to grips/define my orientation to be comfortable with myself. Not just in what or with what gender sex took place. I also felt pushed to define orientation from both hetero and homosexuals by the fact that I am confirmed Bi/polyamorous. You know....a queer to straights and a repressed gay to queers. ( see how it's relative already? )

Some "straight" guys will maybe admit to themselves to being an occasional cock-sucker, but never Bi....'cause they'd never kiss (that's romantic) much less rim or fuck. A bigoted homophobe screamed cocksucker at me coming out of the adult bookstore. Yeah there were glory holes in the back, but I'd been looking for a Bi video to watch with my ex and not cruising. Semantics and relative.

So I'm not experimenting anymore in orientation. Having sex with either/both genders is great fun and I love changing roles. Sometimes topping and sometimes bottom....domme or sub. Hmmmm, now I'm up to being poly/Bi/switch?

I'm not making light of asking this question....because when I was so wrapped up in the labels on one hand....and myself coming to grips with what/who I was, it was deadly important to me. I'm just saying it is relative and a bunch of semantics/being, doing and acting how someone else thinks you should.....instead of being true to yourself.

IMHO.

 

[none2_none2]

Although i think we agree on a lot, (we merely have different ways of expressing ourselves) am not comfortable with having sexual orientation/ preference compared to the likes and dislikes of food.

I thought food was an appropriate analogy because if you think about it we normally eat multiple times every day as it is a fundamental need. We take our appetites our our 5 senses with us where ever we go. In fact the sense of smell tends not only to be used to identify an actual item such as plesant or unplesant food, it also has a powerful memory component.

 

[none2_none2]

One more thing, 10 years of writing learning material, and facilitating diversity training Has taught me that the words we use (clinical words) are necesarry for educational purpose. Words like "orientation" and " preference" when used objectively are necesarry, and not a label.

We will simply have to agree to dissagree on this topic.

I just cannot relate to orientation. No matter how objective one can try to be, orientation has too many negative connotations in terms of someone/something else being in charge of what makes us who we are. If the topic is trying to understand WHY we should have rights, then it should be thrown back to the person WHY not?

If someone spent a lifetime desiring a sexual or romantic encounter with someone specifically within a division of humanity other than a division by physical gender, probably only a scientist with some curiosity in the particular area would ask questions as to WHY the desire for that particular divison of humanity (whether it was maluable or not, genetic or environment, etc.). There would be no question as to whether that individual should or should not have the right to follow his desires (unless of course we are talking about groups that society has deemed unable to concent -- children, mentally retarted, etc.).

If someone had an issue with it, society at large would most likely indicate that the person who found it offensive should mind his/her own business. However, with a division on gender, everybody seems like they have the right to judge it. Now, if the percentage of people who were not reproducing was extremely high and largely due to gay activity, then I could understand why a society might be pre-occupied with discouraging homosexal desire or activities. However, we all know that isn't going to happen. Thus as I see it, the wrong question is being asked. The "why we are who we are or whether we have control over it" isn't nearly as important as why can't others accept that the variety of sexual and romantic yearnings should be just as inert a choice for a particular physical gender as yearnings based on any other divison of humanity. People are just TOO hung up on the physical gender of other people's desires.

I remember an ex who struggled with his homosexuality until he was in his late 40's. He said he was only able to give up the struggle and accept it when he was finally told that he couldn't change it. If "sexual orientation" ideas got him past his struggles, then bully for him. However, if you think about it, what is the real issue? That he didn't know he couldn't change it, or that society made him seem abnormal, defective, evil, "intrinsically disordered" for having those desires in the first place? By far it is the latter. It is a sickness of SOCIETY to condemn someone because their desires (whether by choice or by fate) are different from the society at large.

Again, like I said at the beginning we will simply have to agree to dissagree.
I just hope you see where I'm coming from on this topic. In summary, I see "orientation" classification as a bad path to full acceptance for non-str8 people. Acceptance in society shouldn't be based on whether the latest fad or scientific study says it is unchangable or not. Nobody should be made to feel inferior for gay desire regardless of how I came to have that desire or whether it was a passing thought or a lifetime of yearning.

 

[Wolfman1982]

homosexual bisexual queer what ever !

sex is sex, love is love, we are all humans, why the fuck shouldn´t we just respect eachother, and have fun with the sexual activity ? weather it is bisex "homosex" what ever sex.

I don´t care, people are people what ever, just a very stupid forum tread. That can be used wrong.

That´s my two cents. I don´t think it matters. Some people just want to call the first same gender sex for their first homosexual experience, and I think it is stupid.

Heck I haven´t had my first male to male experience yet , and when I do, I will call my it first experience. And perhaps write about it in the cool thread.

 

[John Doe]

queer is a fun word. i likes it muchly. this thread is silly.

It's crunchy, like the word crunchy.

 

[John Doe]

homosexual bisexual queer what ever !

sex is sex, love is love, we are all humans, why the fuck shouldn´t we just respect eachother, and have fun with the sexual activity ? weather it is bisex "homosex" what ever sex.

I don´t care, people are people what ever, just a very stupid forum tread. That can be used wrong.

That´s my two cents. I don´t think it matters. Some people just want to call the first same gender sex for their first homosexual experience, and I think it is stupid.

Heck I haven´t had my first male to male experience yet , and when I do, I will call my it first experience. And perhaps write about it in the cool thread.

Groovy, man.

 

[PredatorSmile]

For me, 2004-2005 was the day when I went through a major crisis. It started out as : "I'm a lesbian, I love women, yet I daydream about the shy guy in my class". It became : "I still call myself lesbian but I just kissed a boy." It continued with : " I still call myself lesbian but I masturbate to gay porn". It ended with : " I dont know what to call myself anymore. I fell in love with a boy. Slept with him. Took his virginity.
Fled the next morning. Told my lesbian friends what I did. They thought I was sick. I told them to go to hell. I went back to my sweet boy, kissed him and began calling myself "label-free".



I met a bisexual woman who told me that she used to feel the same way I did. She was a lesbian from her late teens to her early thirties, when she met a twenty-something guy and fell in love and later married him. Yeah, it happens. Heck, she was friends with a fifty-something queer male who fell in love with one of his faghags, impregnated her and is now raising twin daughters with her.


I am now dating a guy. The same one I devirginized. Yeah, I'm bi. For now.

 

[Raimondin]

I'm a gay queer homosexual fag!

 

[killallhippies]

For me, 2004-2005 was the day when I went through a major crisis. It started out as : "I'm a lesbian, I love women, yet I daydream about the shy guy in my class". It became : "I still call myself lesbian but I just kissed a boy." It continued with : " I still call myself lesbian but I masturbate to gay porn". It ended with : " I dont know what to call myself anymore. I fell in love with a boy. Slept with him. Took his virginity.
Fled the next morning. Told my lesbian friends what I did. They thought I was sick. I told them to go to hell. I went back to my sweet boy, kissed him and began calling myself "label-free".



I met a bisexual woman who told me that she used to feel the same way I did. She was a lesbian from her late teens to her early thirties, when she met a twenty-something guy and fell in love and later married him. Yeah, it happens. Heck, she was friends with a fifty-something queer male who fell in love with one of his faghags, impregnated her and is now raising twin daughters with her.


I am now dating a guy. The same one I devirginized. Yeah, I'm bi. For now.

this why i refuse to label myself and try not to pretend i completely understand my own sexuality. it's constantly surprising me. besides, peoplw can lie to themselves. it's best to just avoid any oppurtunitys to lie to yourself that you can and just go with the flow if at all possible.

 

[neonflux]

I'm a gay queer homosexual fag!

bi-queer dyke woman here!!!

back to the original question - how do we label our activities? i would add another that seems to also have come up during the discussion - how do our identity and culture affect those labels? and why would this be important?

IMPORTANCE:
Read Foucault and if you still doubt but live in the U.S., under the Bush administration, knowing how they are working through existing bureaucracies - like the Office of Population Affairs (am a coordinator for a large family planning program) - to put all human activity, especially sexuality, in service to the state - all such questions become important at this point in history (perhaps not later, and perhaps not in every industrialized country, the ambiguity of the word queer, i think, being part of a movement towards such a time)...

LABELS:
How do we label our activities and what do identity and culture have to do with it? I would suggest that the two always intersect, and that sexual acts ALWAYS having meaning beyond the physical act themselves, even when taking place within the most casual of physical encounters. With this suggestion, I would also also assert that we move beyond the confessional, beyond trying to normalize sexual activity, to place it back in the realm of divine, ecstatic experience.

EXAMPLES:
OK, now let's look at specific acts involving specific people who define their sexual orientation in different ways...

The act of one man penetrating another with his penis, for instance...

In Mexico this activity would ONLY be defined as homosexual for the person who is being penetrated - he is the only one of the pair who would be seen as "maricon." The man doing the penetrating would NOT see it as a homosexual act or define himself accordingly - this is not denial, it is deeply connected to the issue of self definition. NOW, it may be that queer rights activists working in Mexico might seek to redefine the act culturally in order to draw attention to the existence of same-gender desire among men who define themselves as hetero, but until there is that psychological shift in the masses of men who truly see themselves as nothing but hetero while penetrating other men anally, I would posit this as a heterosexual act for "penetrators" whose sexual self-definition has its cultural roots in Mexico

The act of a queer woman from the U.S. wearing a strap-on while penetrating her queer male lover anally or having him suck her cock...

This pair's genitals clearly make this configuration hetero if all we look at is the genders of the two people involved... But what if both are bi? And what if the woman is in drag and is seeking to act on fantasies of "being male?" Is this then a heterosexual act, or something else again? What if the two people involved proudly define themselves as queer and define their sexual acts with each other in the same way? What if, after the woman has brought her male partner to orgasm by fucking him anally, and has at least in part fulfilled his desire to "suck cock" (an act he also eagerly and regularly does with biological males), what if he then fucks her vaginally? Does the configuration and use of their genitalia then negate the "queerness" of their other experiences with each other, regardless of how they define them?

A pre-op trans MTF woman, in most industrialized countries, making love to her lesbian lover...

Lets say the trans woman is comfortable enough with her "dangly bits" to, after orally pleasuring and then handfucking her woman lover, fuck her vaginally with her penis. Does this suddenly become a "heterosexual" act, despite the fact that both individuals see themselves and function in the world as women? This is not an academic question as I have a good friend (nonsexual) who is in transition and defines herself as lesbian who feels comfortable with such activity... I guess this also begs the question of whether my trans woman friend has the right to define her gender regardless of the genitals she can afford to possess currently. The organizers of the Michigan Womyn's Festival would say no (and in fact 10 years ago would have kicked out even post-op trans women had they found out). Another reason why this isn't a silly thread but has weight and importance...

~ J

 

[CuriousNiceGuy]

Why does it matter?

Exactly..
I have never been asked if i had homo/bi/hetero-sexual encounters..
For god's sake, it's enough with the labels for humans, why would you wanna say homosexual activity? Sex or blowjob or whatever, does just fine

P.S: Lol, Raimondin, always cute and loud, aren't you?

 

[hilltopper69]

hi

I to dont like labels always gets in the way.

 

[slimchance]

homosexuals do not care to have sex with members of the opposite sex. bisexuals like sex with both gender equally as well. therefore both words are an esential part of the english language. that is not an opinion. that is a fact!!!

 

[neonflux]

Again, back to the original question...

The original question had nothing to do with how we label ourselves but how we label our activities

and yes, queer is crunchy

Again, I'd suggest that part of the fluidity and mystery of sex means that we are capable of experiencing our acts in ways that venture beyond the anatomically obvious ...

sometimes "penis into vagina sex" can be queer and sometimes penis into anus sex can be straight...

as a queer woman, my experience of sex with men is often quite different (for both me and my male partners) than that of a straight woman with a man...

and as a queer woman, my experience with other women is also often different when compared to that of a straight woman who is only engaging in woman-woman sex to "please her man"

 

[CJontherocks]

Sexual orientation, individual emotional experiences, personal preference and common phrases of the day aside... English is English, and I have to agree with Senses11 in the original post.

Personally, when I have sex with a guy, I call it sex. When I have sex with a woman I call it sex.

There are different dialects in all languages... maybe we should just come up with a GLBT dialect and then we can say whatever we want?

 

[hotel_guy]

it's suprising...

it's suprising to me just how many people get wrapped into particular labels. i just wonder if those individuals are confused about themselves or concerned about what others think of them.

just have fun.