Mgtow

[Libsam]

I've visited and read their forums.

They make some good points about feminism. I've read some good family unit discussions. I kind of enjoy the prenuptial and 'contract dating' conversations, interesting stuff.

They highlight that system is rigged in favor of women, and there are women out there who have learned to game the system. Scorned women, gold diggers, etc.

Ever seen Divorce Corp.?

 

[BotanyBoy]

But, everyone knows the general terms, and any family lawyer can tell you the details.

Yea and any family lawyer that isn't burning her bras on the weekend or white knighting for the bra burners will tell you if you have a dick then don't do it, don't even move in with them and SURE as fuck don't ever let them move in with you.

Just say no.

 

[Kirkrapine]

. . . burning her bras . . .

Who even thinks in those terms any more?!

 

[Luk]

I've visited and read their forums.

They make some good points about feminism. I've read some good family unit discussions. I kind of enjoy the prenuptial and 'contract dating' conversations, interesting stuff.

They highlight that system is rigged in favor of women, and there are women out there who have learned to game the system. Scorned women, gold diggers, etc.

Ever seen Divorce Corp.?

I feel the same way, Brospeh.

 

[Kirkrapine]

You do all understand that we are talking about something the survival of the human race depends on, don't you? If men avoid women, there will eventually be none of either.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Who even thinks in those terms any more?!

It's just an expression, nice way to dodge the content of what was said though.

We all know how much you fucking hate facing hard questions that challenge your narratives.

You do all understand that we are talking about something the survival of the human race depends on, don't you? If men avoid women, there will eventually be none of either.

Women need men like fish need legs.

Men are unimportant and not needed, death to the patriarchy!!

 

[Kirkrapine]

It's just an expression, nice way to dodge the content of what was said though.

We all know how much you fucking hate facing hard questions that challenge your narratives.

I know family lawyers. None would ever flatly counsel against cohabitation; though they certainly would warn you of all the legal implications.

And feminists never actually did burn bras.

 

[Libsam]

You do all understand that we are talking about something the survival of the human race depends on, don't you? If men avoid women, there will eventually be none of either.

Axlotl Tanks

 

[bellisarius]

You do all understand that we are talking about something the survival of the human race depends on, don't you? If men avoid women, there will eventually be none of either.

Oh, we have cloning and there are scientists working on standalone uteri.

 

[Luk]

Oh, we have cloning and there are scientists working on standalone uteri.

You *might* get laid!

 

[BotanyBoy]

I know family lawyers. None would ever flatly counsel against cohabitation; though they certainly would warn you of all the legal implications.

And feminists never actually did burn bras.

They must suck or the laws in FL are better than the ones in KY because in KY at that time even cohabitation was a stupid as fuck idea. Might as well put a ring on it if you do because when she tires of your shit, she'll take all your shit.

 

[Oblimo]

Recently stumbled on this 'movement' and am still trying to digest what it's all about. From one contest it makes perfect sense, from another it's pointless.

Got any thoughts on the subject?

Yeah, stop being such a fucking obvious Internet troll, it won’t get you laid.

 

[Oblimo]

Oh, we have cloning and there are scientists working on standalone uteri.

Yeah, and cloning doesn’t use sperm, it only requires ova.

You got me to respond, so I rate your post two and a half fucking trolls.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

You do all understand that we are talking about something the survival of the human race depends on, don't you? If men avoid women, there will eventually be none of either.

I thought the discussion was marriage - not procreation.

In fact I believe the point is that marriage is an increasingly useless social construct because it is no longer socially necessary as an economic process to have stable procreation.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I thought the discussion was marriage - not procreation.

In fact I believe the point is that marriage is an increasingly useless social construct because it is no longer socially necessary as an economic process to have stable procreation.

Wow....lol

Don't worry about raising the kid right? The GOD STATE will handle that

Fucking lunatic.

 

[lylalala]

I thought the discussion was marriage - not procreation.

In fact I believe the point is that marriage is an increasingly useless social construct because it is no longer socially necessary as an economic process to have stable procreation.

"Stable procreation"? So kids don't deserve or benefit from two parents who love each other and live together?

I understand that some relationships do not work out, but to say marriage is "useless" is wrong.

 

[schism666]

"Stable procreation"? So kids don't deserve or benefit from two parents who love each other and live together?

I understand that some relationships do not work out, but to say marriage is "useless" is wrong.

why is it wrong? you don't need marriage to raise proper children, that's just a dumb premise.

 

[CandiCame]

"Stable procreation"? So kids don't deserve or benefit from two parents who love each other and live together?

I understand that some relationships do not work out, but to say marriage is "useless" is wrong.

That's not a marriage. That thing you just described. I'm doing that without a marriage.

And when we actually study this, kids do a lot better with the old-fashioned extended family than the nuclear family- nuclear families tend to give the children a smaller social-support structure, leads to othering behavior (because they don't know as many adults and can't feel as safe), and a whole slew of other problems. I mean, you can raise perfectly healthy kids in a nuclear family, but it's not the only or best option-

And not for nothing, but it is stacked against the guy. Because women are seen as naturally more nurturing- for no particular reason because there's nothing that backs that up; there's no biological "nurturing" gene that is present in one sex and not the other- they tend to be favored in family-first states like mine during custody battles. I BEGGED my baby mama to move in with me because I KNEW she could- and CAN- take my kid on a whim.

Having said that, the problem here isn't really one that isn't already being tackled better by feminists who argue for equality in parenting laws. I don't think we need a whole separate movement for that. And I don't think that these guys... would know romance if it bit them on the ass.

You know... straight people hurt my fucking head. "Women" aren't a monolith who are out to scam you out of sperm and cash. Women are people. Like... these guys remind me of the Incels so much. Say it with me, "Women are PEOPLE. THEY ARE MEN WITH VAGINAS. THERE IS ONLY LIKE A HALF A CHROMOZONE DIFFERENCE." Yes, we're socialized differently, but I swear to god if everyone was bisexual I don't think this would be an issue because SO MANY of these problems come from making up differences between the sexes that just don't exist in the really real world.

Yes, toxic masculinity is a thing. You can just not do it. Like you can, 100% without exaggeration, opt out. Will there be social consequences? Absolutely. But that is the ONLY way that you're going to do that, because we're the ones who set that standard- so we're the ones who can break it. You don't have to do the toxic masculinity bullshit-

And what's weird to me, about gender expression and how it relates to toxic masculinity in particular, is how much it ties into social conceptions of sexuality. Like... if straight guys weren't so scared of having their sexuality labeled incorrectly, this would be SO MUCH easier for yhall. If someone thinks that you're a little bit fey then LET THEM, because being gay is not a BAD thing. By internalizing that negativity, you're giving those people that power. If you don't care, it doesn't mean anything.

Also, suck a dick. You might like it. That sounds dismissive, but I mean it- there are a lot of people who, because of that dudebro kind of toxic masculinity, wind up coming out way later in life than they needed to because of this very fear. And you can just NOT. Worst case scenario is you find out, "Well that wasn't for me" and go on with your life. It doesn't have to be a big deal.

Internalizing these ideas is what MAKES them big deals. You can have emotions, you can share those emotions with your friends. You can have traditionally "feminine" interests. You can have female friends who you AREN'T trying to fuck.

Like you can just go do that. It's not rocket science.

I never really had problems with those things. I learned to fight. I know the resistance from other guys is out there and that they WILL try to kick your ass- but if we all collectively agree to quit doing that, we can just NOT. Because it's not women who are doing that, really. It's other guys. And you are under no obligation to internalize THEIR stupidity. They don't know you better than you do.

As far as the dating and relationships with women thing like... I don't know. Again, when you have your first gay relationship, you just stop doing gender rolls. Because they're not there. There's no preconceived guidelines to pull from- and once you have that, you don't go back. You realize that they don't matter in a relationship.

I think another part of it is that these guys are just taking this shit WAY too seriously. Like... when you're dating, don't go out looking for a wife or life-partner. Go out to have fun, and if you meet someone and you like them, keep talking to them and shit. If something romantic is going to happen, it'll happen. If somebody came at me with a contract I wouldn't want to date them anymore. Like, pretend that you're the girl- not what you THINK "women" are, but just you, with titties maybe if that helps your imagination, and someone talked to you the way these guys talk to chicks.

One of them was bitching about headphones- dude, seriously? Imagine that you're sitting on a bus listening to a podcast and some random stranger keeps trying to talk to you. Would you want to date that guy, or would you think, "Well I sure wish that annoying motherfucker on the bus would shut the fuck up?"

Just... try not being the annoying motherfucker?

I often say, "Act like you got some sense" or "act like a human person", and what I mean by that is sometimes I read shit like this group puts out and it sounds like an alien species that reproduces asexually is studying humans in the wild with NO CONTEXT and trying to understand them. It seems so completely out of left field that it just... makes me really sad for them?

 

[CandiCame]

I thought the discussion was marriage - not procreation.

In fact I believe the point is that marriage is an increasingly useless social construct because it is no longer socially necessary as an economic process to have stable procreation.

Same. Marriage as we have it, the serial monogamy as a legal contract kind is just... not for me. Like yhall do you but it really feels outdated.

 

[Oblimo]

You know... straight people hurt my fucking head. "Women" aren't a monolith who are out to scam you out of sperm and cash. Women are people. Like... these guys remind me of the Incels so much. Say it with me, "Women are PEOPLE. THEY ARE MEN WITH VAGINAS. THERE IS ONLY LIKE A HALF A CHROMOZONE DIFFERENCE." Yes, we're socialized differently, but I swear to god if everyone was bisexual I don't think this would be an issue because SO MANY of these problems come from making up differences between the sexes that just don't exist in the really real world.

Hey now, not all straight—

...

Oh, fuck. I’ll just show myself out.

(MGOTW was the 1st organized manosphere “movement,” as I remember The manosphere itself pretty much started on 4chan’s /rk9/ board, and all things male incel come from there but MGOTW was the first group with a message, and that message was women are monsters.

And the phrase “incel” was coined by a young woman and initially used by a unisex group of Internet folks happily, and with full-self awareness, commiserating about difficulties about relating to other people, especially sexually.

Everything changed when the Fire Nation attacked.)

 

[Oblimo]

Same. Marriage as we have it, the serial monogamy as a legal contract kind is just... not for me. Like yhall do you but it really feels outdated.

Existential monogamy: “Sex is just something that happens between two people.”

 

[Kirkrapine]

Women are people.

Are you sure?!

 

[Oblimo]

Are you sure?!

 

[lylalala]

That's not a marriage. That thing you just described. I'm doing that without a marriage.

And when we actually study this, kids do a lot better with the old-fashioned extended family than the nuclear family- nuclear families tend to give the children a smaller social-support structure, leads to othering behavior (because they don't know as many adults and can't feel as safe), and a whole slew of other problems. I mean, you can raise perfectly healthy kids in a nuclear family, but it's not the only or best option-

And not for nothing, but it is stacked against the guy. Because women are seen as naturally more nurturing- for no particular reason because there's nothing that backs that up; there's no biological "nurturing" gene that is present in one sex and not the other- they tend to be favored in family-first states like mine during custody battles. I BEGGED my baby mama to move in with me because I KNEW she could- and CAN- take my kid on a whim.

Having said that, the problem here isn't really one that isn't already being tackled better by feminists who argue for equality in parenting laws. I don't think we need a whole separate movement for that. And I don't think that these guys... would know romance if it bit them on the ass.

You know... straight people hurt my fucking head. "Women" aren't a monolith who are out to scam you out of sperm and cash. Women are people. Like... these guys remind me of the Incels so much. Say it with me, "Women are PEOPLE. THEY ARE MEN WITH VAGINAS. THERE IS ONLY LIKE A HALF A CHROMOZONE DIFFERENCE." Yes, we're socialized differently, but I swear to god if everyone was bisexual I don't think this would be an issue because SO MANY of these problems come from making up differences between the sexes that just don't exist in the really real world.

Yes, toxic masculinity is a thing. You can just not do it. Like you can, 100% without exaggeration, opt out. Will there be social consequences? Absolutely. But that is the ONLY way that you're going to do that, because we're the ones who set that standard- so we're the ones who can break it. You don't have to do the toxic masculinity bullshit-

And what's weird to me, about gender expression and how it relates to toxic masculinity in particular, is how much it ties into social conceptions of sexuality. Like... if straight guys weren't so scared of having their sexuality labeled incorrectly, this would be SO MUCH easier for yhall. If someone thinks that you're a little bit fey then LET THEM, because being gay is not a BAD thing. By internalizing that negativity, you're giving those people that power. If you don't care, it doesn't mean anything.

Also, suck a dick. You might like it. That sounds dismissive, but I mean it- there are a lot of people who, because of that dudebro kind of toxic masculinity, wind up coming out way later in life than they needed to because of this very fear. And you can just NOT. Worst case scenario is you find out, "Well that wasn't for me" and go on with your life. It doesn't have to be a big deal.

Internalizing these ideas is what MAKES them big deals. You can have emotions, you can share those emotions with your friends. You can have traditionally "feminine" interests. You can have female friends who you AREN'T trying to fuck.

Like you can just go do that. It's not rocket science.

I never really had problems with those things. I learned to fight. I know the resistance from other guys is out there and that they WILL try to kick your ass- but if we all collectively agree to quit doing that, we can just NOT. Because it's not women who are doing that, really. It's other guys. And you are under no obligation to internalize THEIR stupidity. They don't know you better than you do.

As far as the dating and relationships with women thing like... I don't know. Again, when you have your first gay relationship, you just stop doing gender rolls. Because they're not there. There's no preconceived guidelines to pull from- and once you have that, you don't go back. You realize that they don't matter in a relationship.

I think another part of it is that these guys are just taking this shit WAY too seriously. Like... when you're dating, don't go out looking for a wife or life-partner. Go out to have fun, and if you meet someone and you like them, keep talking to them and shit. If something romantic is going to happen, it'll happen. If somebody came at me with a contract I wouldn't want to date them anymore. Like, pretend that you're the girl- not what you THINK "women" are, but just you, with titties maybe if that helps your imagination, and someone talked to you the way these guys talk to chicks.

One of them was bitching about headphones- dude, seriously? Imagine that you're sitting on a bus listening to a podcast and some random stranger keeps trying to talk to you. Would you want to date that guy, or would you think, "Well I sure wish that annoying motherfucker on the bus would shut the fuck up?"

Just... try not being the annoying motherfucker?

I often say, "Act like you got some sense" or "act like a human person", and what I mean by that is sometimes I read shit like this group puts out and it sounds like an alien species that reproduces asexually is studying humans in the wild with NO CONTEXT and trying to understand them. It seems so completely out of left field that it just... makes me really sad for them?

Candi ~ I'm sure it can be done, and done well, without a marriage. I was challenging the idea that marriage is useless. For some of us, it is not. I really like being married. If for some reason my current marriage ends, I'm sure I would eventually be married to someone else.... yes, extended families are good for kids.

I do wish more men would be open to dick sucking. I've been asking my partner to try it for quite some time!

 

[CandiCame]

Candi ~ I'm sure it can be done, and done well, without a marriage. I was challenging the idea that marriage is useless. For some of us, it is not. I really like being married. If for some reason my current marriage ends, I'm sure I would eventually be married to someone else.... yes, extended families are good for kids.

I do wish more men would be open to dick sucking. I've been asking my partner to try it for quite some time!

You got married and he's never sucked your dick?

That seems ass backwards to me.