My 14 year old daughter came home with a hickey...

[bumlicker]

im telling you

joined DADD if we can get big enough we can end this dating thing alltogether

 

[JaxRhapsody]

Just wow at this whole thread. The only thing ill add is thata hickey can be bad for you. Im not goong to argue anything else. And no, im not worried about my lecherous son and the ladies-cause he's only two.

 

[SweetErika]

I see that. How does an entire post get deleted? I thought that wasn't possible.

Hrn.

Then I'm out of ideas.

Apparently it IS possible for entire posts to be deleted, and it wasn't a one-off thing because I just saw it happen again in the "Need some help" thread. From the email I got, it appeared to be a spam post from someone who's username started with PE. I wonder if they upgraded the software or enabled a feature that allows the removal of entire posts (and members in some cases), so they don't have to go in and edit out the spam or whatever manually or deal with those who habitually violate the rules anymore.

If that's the case, I'm all for the change!

 

[bailadora]

Thanks for the update, Erika. And I agree, if there's a new function that makes life easier for the mods, I'm all for it.

 

[new_to_you]

It sounds like you and your daughter have a very healthy relationship. Kudos. I'd like to add that if she has other grown women in her life, who you trust, who she can confide in, that's a plus to you. I'm not a mom, but I have several nieces (who are still too young for all this, but I hope they'll confide in me when they reach that age) and I'm a mentor to two fifteen year old girls through a program at my local high school. I've met their parents and they are glad to have me there for their daughters. I always think that the more adults a young person has active in her or his life, the better for them.

 

[bailadora]

joined DADD if we can get big enough we can end this dating thing alltogether

Something tells me you'd approve of this.

 

[themilf]

To be honest, I read it the same way as Serpentwrap (and others, I suspect). Without the appropriate emoticons, the tone of your post comes across as pretty sharp with a healthy dose of "I told you so" thrown in.

You added a lot of info that totally changed the meaning of [to paraphrase] "I think he's beneath us" statement in your original post. I think we responded to the potentially haughty and unjustified tone of that (after all, some people say such things when they see people who simply don't wear designer labels, don't have the 'proper' pedigree, etc., right?).

Ouch... Damn, the truth hurts!

I'm going to run and pick up dinner but I intend to come back and address your ideas in a bit.

I do want to share this first.

Beautiful Baby Girl had her young man visit HERE last evening. With much supervision and limited hours together alone. Much to their chagrin.

They've learned that if one engages in what appears to be questionable behavior and with poor judgement, um.. people TREAT you like you might be engaging in questionable behavior and with poor judgement. The lines of communication have opened wide once again, I was afraid she'd shut down if I asked too much (in her eyes). But we're cool once again. It helped immensely to have her older sis throw in her two cents (finally) as well!

 

[SweetErika]

Ouch... Damn, the truth hurts!

I'm going to run and pick up dinner but I intend to come back and address your ideas in a bit.

I do want to share this first.

Beautiful Baby Girl had her young man visit HERE last evening. With much supervision and limited hours together alone. Much to their chagrin.

They've learned that if one engages in what appears to be questionable behavior and with poor judgement, um.. people TREAT you like you might be engaging in questionable behavior and with poor judgement. The lines of communication have opened wide once again, I was afraid she'd shut down if I asked too much (in her eyes). But we're cool once again. It helped immensely to have her older sis throw in her two cents (finally) as well!

To be clear, my post wasn't a criticism of you, either. I see you got the hang of the emoticons and such, so you should be able to look forward to far fewer misunderstandings from here on out.

I don't know if you've read/heard any of the Love and Logic parenting stuff, but my mom used it with me (and now we're using it with our little guy), and what you said really reminds me of the philosophies and techniques it teaches. FWIW, I think you're totally right in showing your daughter that her behavior dictates how she's treated by her parents and others. Teaching her that mature, responsible behavior earns her more respect, privileges and positive consequences is so important!

 

[themilf]

Not broken hearted

It was through the change of a "relationship status" on Facebook... that I found my beautiful Baby Girl and her friend had chosen to go their separate ways. And really much to my delight, there is continued interest from a great young man in the neighborhood who attends the same high school and has lovely parents and great values.
It tickles me that she first encountered him in her advanced algebra class on one of her first days at her new high school. She'd dropped her pencil and he picked it up and was playing "keep away". Unfortunately at the time she was very defensive because she was the new kid and she didn't realize he was likely flirting with her.
That he has an older brother (early 20's, cougar what?) with whom I've become "acquainted" only adds interest, right?
But neither of the youngsters are aware of our friendship.
Regardless of their future, I'm just glad the other young man is out of the picture!

 

[Noor]

Tacky on a grown woman? No. Tacky on a fourteen year old girl? Hell yeah. That and it shows she has got her a boy that needs more practice. First rule of not getting on her parents' bad side, leave no and that means NO NO NO marks on the girl. It's disrespectful for a boy to leave one on a girl.

A grown man asked to mark the woman is between two adults. If the boy did it on purpose he's being an asshole. If the girl asked the boy to do it she's being a disrespectful little tramp. Just saying. Honest, just my opinion.

They maybe just ignorant.

During high school, my bf at the time took me to his house where we then proceeded to paint and découpage the inside of a closet. One thing led to another and my very long curly hair ended up a bit painted and glued, not to mention my uniform. On the way out we ran into his dad, who said he wanted to speak with him after dinner.

There is a lot more to this story, and we were very concern about this after dinner talk since previous ones had ended up in month long groundings, and other disruptive events.

That night when his dad called him into his office, he was given a very stern lecture on the importance of returning me to school in the same condition if which I left

It seriously never occurred to either of us that this was something to even think about even though it should have.

 

[Lord Pmann]

And if the truth be known, I think he and his family are quite beneath us but I hate to judge (funny). I figure he's fine for a "starter Boyfriend" (he's 14 as well). I don't know them that well. I've MET them on several occasions but I don't know that I'm capable of making an unbiased judgement on this one. She IS after all, my BABY GIRL.

Beneath you? What the fuck? That's terrible. And yes, I read your reasoning on page two. But change the way you say that. With that said, I understand that you have to protect your daughter as well and sometimes they don't seem nice. Not trying to stone you. Just trying to give you advice on how not to avoid sounding like an elitist asshole.

I'm going to throw in my two cents...

If you don't want her getting hickeys at 14, don't let her date. She is 14 after all. Kids at 14 are borderline retarded. I'm sure your daughter is different, but every other 14 year old out there is. 14 year olds are in the business of making terrible decisions.

What's all this "trust your kid" stuff? Why on earth would you trust your teen? Do you guys remember what you were like at 14? It always blows my mind when someone is surprised their kid is doing stuff they shouldn't be. You ask, "What were you like at 14" and their response is that they were a hell raiser. But they are genuinely surprised when their kid is exactly like them. Why are people so naive to their children? Seriously. Kids at this age are designed for stupidity and breeding. As delightful as hormonal teenagers are, their logic portion of the brain hasn't caught up with their risk portion.

And all of the talk about "my kid will talk to a doctor when they are ready to have sex" stuff? Naive. The road to unwanted pregnancy is paved with good intentions. The odds of a teen in a heated make out session stopping to say, "I am supposed to talk to my doctor about birth control first" are about the same odds as me getting a handjibber from a mermaid before close of business today. Right now, as a grown man with a job and a wife, I wouldn't stop pursuing sex if an alligator was eating my leg. That drive is strong and biological.

If your teenager thinks you are cool and a good friend, then the odds are, you (generic you, not aimed at the original poster) are doing a shitty job being a parent. Teenagers are filled with bad decisions and need to be taught how to make good ones. They don't need to be sheltered, but their exposure to such risky things needs to be minimized. Kids don't need more friends. They need a voice of reason and, at times, protection from themselves.

Sorry if this sounds snarky. I normally don't write snarky posts. But that whole "beneath me" thing put a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[lynn-23]

Pmann, I agree with you. Kids need a parent to look out for them. These days it seems many parents are more concerned with being seen as "cool" parents by their kids and their friends and dont want to be "the bad guy." Your kids have lots of friends; they need you to be parents.

 

[themilf]

Beneath you? What the fuck? That's terrible. And yes, I read your reasoning on page two. But change the way you say that. With that said, I understand that you have to protect your daughter as well and sometimes they don't seem nice. Not trying to stone you. Just trying to give you advice on how not to avoid sounding like an elitist asshole. [/QUOTE/]

You say "elitist asshole" like it's a bad thing!

 

[Lord Pmann]

You say "elitist asshole" like it's a bad thing!

Hahaha. I like you MILF. I'm with you. I can be an elitist asshole too. I have a whole thread dedicated to how much I hate hipsters and their ugly fucking TOMs shoes. So, I get it. I can be there with you. I just felt a little bad for the kid, being that he is 14. But I get it MILF. It wasn't a rebuke or anything. Your explanation on page 2 did sum it up well. I just didn't like how it was worded. You've been a good sport!

 

[njlauren]

I don't have a daughter but I have a teenage son. Yes, teens get hormonal, they act weird, do strange things, but I also think we give them a lot less credit then they deserve. I think if we take the attitude that the kid is going to be a wild monster nde roughshod on them, that in some senses we may end up creating a self fulfilling prophesy (I don't things have changed much from my day, the kids whose parents were the uber religious, don't talk about sex, control freaks were often the kids who got into trouble first back then).

I agree totally, a parent cannot be concerned about being their kids friend but that doesn't mean a parent needs to be a control freak or an a-hole either. Talking is important, it isn't 'liberal gibber-jabber', and the talking has to be done openly and honestly. With things like sex we never made a big deal about it, we talked about sex from the time he first started getting curious, in an age appropriate way, and we neither demonized it or made a big deal about it. If he came to us with questions about sex we never tried to duck it, we answered as age appropriately as we could.You would be amazed at what kids come up with, try having a music geek for a kid who had been reading about the English composer Percy Granger and asking what did it mean he was a masochist......as he got older we talked about what it was like as a teen growing up, the pressures, the things that went on, how we dealt with it and so forth. Among other things, I think the fact that we never ducked the topic or made a big deal out of if, but rather tried to talk rationally about it, seemed to keep the lines of communication open and I would like to believe if something happened he knew we would have his back and understand, as hard as things might be.

That said, with a 14 year old you need to set boundaries, rules, whatever and I agree, it has to be a united front (our son knew that if he tried the old end around, it wouldn't work). For example, if my kid had a hickey (or worse, I found out he gave one) I would have a talk to him about it, why I wasn't happy about it, that especially at that age it was kind of some sort of gross thing to say to others "look where I got with my gal/guy", and that all it did was make both people look ridiculous. One of the things I have talked to my son about was how hard being a teenager was, how crazy things can get, and also quite honestly about how emotionally tearing dating can be, even without sex, and also trying to explain to him how sex was a beautiful and quite powerful thing, that it is part of being human and a glorious part of it, but that it also has costs and consequences that cannot be treated lightly either. I don't think we ever told him not to have sex, save it for marriage, or even laid down a rule "if you are going to have sex, wait until you are older", but he seems to be a level headed kid and has made his own decisions, which seems to be holding off on sex.

Want to know what I think the biggest thing a parent needs to do? It is showing that they actively care what is going on and show an interest in their kids lives, especially in the teen years. Knowing that you as parents care, that you are actively still looking out for them while giving them leeway to live their life, I think is absolutely critical. Yes, parents who give kids the abstinence only thing, who are over the top with how sex is for marriage only, that teens shouldn't be having sex and so forth are not entirely wrong, I actually think teens should avoid sex if they can due to the emotional wrecks I saw when things didn't go well, or the girls who were all but raped, the girls and guys who were loaded with guilt, you name it. The problem there was they substituted judgement for parental caring, they were caught up in rigid rules rather then trying to help the kid through a rough time (I can't entirely blame them, when sex is still such a minefield, thanks to religious/cultural crap, they never really learned) and it turns the kids off or causes them to rebel. A consistent, firm set of parents on the other hand tells the kid they care, that they know what can happen and are trying to help them navigate it, that they care but also respect them enough to give them leeway they need, there is a big difference. I don't agree with the posters who are like 'sex is inevitable, get over it' and the like, I think with the right guidance many kids can make smart decisions, whether it is to wait to have sex until the find someone they really like, wait until marriage, or have sex but do so safely. Yeah, hormones are raging but a self confident kid who understands what is going on stands a fighting chance of not doing something stupid. Studies have shown this, the kids who have had a good grounding in sex and sexuality, from parents and/or in school, who have parents who can talk about it and seem to understand, are a lot less likely to have sex in their early teens, are less likely to get pregnant as a teen and are more likely to be making sure the boy uses condoms, because they have the strength to say no, the self confidence (either for the boy or girl) to do what others might find obtrusively. Teens are weird beings, as I know only too well, but they aren't hormonal monsters totally off the deep end either, least not all of them.

 

[samanthaswitch]

Hickeys don't equal sex so I wouldn't rush to that panic right off. Certainly be inteligent and up front about it. When I was a teen my mom explained all of it and made me a deal with two conditions. First I had to tell her when I was starting to consider sex and then she would take me to the doctor to get birh controll pills and then buy a fresh set of condoms both of which I had to agree to use every time. I started the pills and put the condoms in my purse. I didn't jump right into bed with a guy after the but I'll say this. By the time I graduated high school I'd long since had my cherry popped but I didn't get an std or get pregnant. Had a scare once on the pregnancy front (condom broke and was a little late but thankfully scare was all it was). I'll say this as well out of my class (a small one of 100) I know off hand of at least 10 girls who got pregnant before the end of senior year two of whom I was close with. If you can't stop your kid from having sex better they not wind up knocked up or with aids.

 

[Lord Pmann]

I don't have a daughter but I have a teenage son. Yes, teens get hormonal, they act weird, do strange things, but I also think we give them a lot less credit then they deserve. I think if we take the attitude that the kid is going to be a wild monster nde roughshod on them, that in some senses we may end up creating a self fulfilling prophesy (I don't things have changed much from my day, the kids whose parents were the uber religious, don't talk about sex, control freaks were often the kids who got into trouble first back then).

I agree totally, a parent cannot be concerned about being their kids friend but that doesn't mean a parent needs to be a control freak or an a-hole either. Talking is important, it isn't 'liberal gibber-jabber', and the talking has to be done openly and honestly. With things like sex we never made a big deal about it, we talked about sex from the time he first started getting curious, in an age appropriate way, and we neither demonized it or made a big deal about it. If he came to us with questions about sex we never tried to duck it, we answered as age appropriately as we could.You would be amazed at what kids come up with, try having a music geek for a kid who had been reading about the English composer Percy Granger and asking what did it mean he was a masochist......as he got older we talked about what it was like as a teen growing up, the pressures, the things that went on, how we dealt with it and so forth. Among other things, I think the fact that we never ducked the topic or made a big deal out of if, but rather tried to talk rationally about it, seemed to keep the lines of communication open and I would like to believe if something happened he knew we would have his back and understand, as hard as things might be.

That said, with a 14 year old you need to set boundaries, rules, whatever and I agree, it has to be a united front (our son knew that if he tried the old end around, it wouldn't work). For example, if my kid had a hickey (or worse, I found out he gave one) I would have a talk to him about it, why I wasn't happy about it, that especially at that age it was kind of some sort of gross thing to say to others "look where I got with my gal/guy", and that all it did was make both people look ridiculous. One of the things I have talked to my son about was how hard being a teenager was, how crazy things can get, and also quite honestly about how emotionally tearing dating can be, even without sex, and also trying to explain to him how sex was a beautiful and quite powerful thing, that it is part of being human and a glorious part of it, but that it also has costs and consequences that cannot be treated lightly either. I don't think we ever told him not to have sex, save it for marriage, or even laid down a rule "if you are going to have sex, wait until you are older", but he seems to be a level headed kid and has made his own decisions, which seems to be holding off on sex.

Want to know what I think the biggest thing a parent needs to do? It is showing that they actively care what is going on and show an interest in their kids lives, especially in the teen years. Knowing that you as parents care, that you are actively still looking out for them while giving them leeway to live their life, I think is absolutely critical. Yes, parents who give kids the abstinence only thing, who are over the top with how sex is for marriage only, that teens shouldn't be having sex and so forth are not entirely wrong, I actually think teens should avoid sex if they can due to the emotional wrecks I saw when things didn't go well, or the girls who were all but raped, the girls and guys who were loaded with guilt, you name it. The problem there was they substituted judgement for parental caring, they were caught up in rigid rules rather then trying to help the kid through a rough time (I can't entirely blame them, when sex is still such a minefield, thanks to religious/cultural crap, they never really learned) and it turns the kids off or causes them to rebel. A consistent, firm set of parents on the other hand tells the kid they care, that they know what can happen and are trying to help them navigate it, that they care but also respect them enough to give them leeway they need, there is a big difference. I don't agree with the posters who are like 'sex is inevitable, get over it' and the like, I think with the right guidance many kids can make smart decisions, whether it is to wait to have sex until the find someone they really like, wait until marriage, or have sex but do so safely. Yeah, hormones are raging but a self confident kid who understands what is going on stands a fighting chance of not doing something stupid. Studies have shown this, the kids who have had a good grounding in sex and sexuality, from parents and/or in school, who have parents who can talk about it and seem to understand, are a lot less likely to have sex in their early teens, are less likely to get pregnant as a teen and are more likely to be making sure the boy uses condoms, because they have the strength to say no, the self confidence (either for the boy or girl) to do what others might find obtrusively. Teens are weird beings, as I know only too well, but they aren't hormonal monsters totally off the deep end either, least not all of them.

Could you expand on this a little?

Good points made, but I still think most teenagers are idiots. Not their fault really. I was a really good teenager. I never got in trouble. Never drank. Never did drugs. But I know that I was still tempted to do stuff that no normal human would do. It was from two things:

1. My parents not only set rules for me, but they explained why. It wasn't just some redneck asshole dad screaming he would beat my ass if I did this or that. They let me know why those boundaries are set.

2. I was scared shitless of the consequences. I knew when they said if I did X that I would get punished, I believed them. And it wasn't some bullshit hippie punishment either. It was something that I genuinely hated.

But Lauren said the absolute most important thing... That's concerning being involved in your kids life. And letting them know you have an interest in them. No kid wants to listen to a parent that just hands out rules like some dictator with no visible concern for them.

 

[njlauren]

Could you expand on this a little?

Good points made, but I still think most teenagers are idiots. Not their fault really. I was a really good teenager. I never got in trouble. Never drank. Never did drugs. But I know that I was still tempted to do stuff that no normal human would do. It was from two things:

1. My parents not only set rules for me, but they explained why. It wasn't just some redneck asshole dad screaming he would beat my ass if I did this or that. They let me know why those boundaries are set.

2. I was scared shitless of the consequences. I knew when they said if I did X that I would get punished, I believed them. And it wasn't some bullshit hippie punishment either. It was something that I genuinely hated.

But Lauren said the absolute most important thing... That's concerning being involved in your kids life. And letting them know you have an interest in them. No kid wants to listen to a parent that just hands out rules like some dictator with no visible concern for them.

Pmann-

Well, I can't say much about adults either, what often passes for discourse these days makes the stupidity and drama of what teens do look mild.....Young people have unique problems, being young they tend to think they are invincible, that they are immortal and 'bad stuff' won't happen to them (it is the other side of separating out from the parents, becoming their own person, and learning to take risks).

I think the consequences are important and if done right punishment can be part of it. My parents weren't redneck assholes either (though they had their own flaws/faults, unlike me, who learned everything and is perfect *lol*), but they also set boundaries and for the most part punishments were more about having to face them and knowing I did something stupid. One of the things both my parents tried to instill in myself isn't so much the consequences, but rather that the consequences were about myself and my life, not about them (how many parents tell their kids "if you have sex and you get knocked up/you knock someone up, what will people think?") and more importantly, they tried to teach me and show me that in this life one of the really important things was being able to maintain self respect and to filter what I did through that. If kids were pressuring me to have sex for the sake of saying I did it, how would that feel?

One of the things I learned before driving was responsibility with cars, we did our own car repairs and I knew the myriad things that could go wrong and the consequences of being stupid (like a cousin of mine who thought it was cool to try and race a small sports car against 1970's era muscle cars with big engines *grrr*..went through 2 or 3 engines doing that). I also knew how a car was put together and what could break, I had brake master cylinders go out on me, I saw broken suspensions and so forth....didn't mean didn't do stupid things in the car (like not buckling up, and I used to be on a volunteer rescue squad in my late teens) but I also knew if I broke something I would need to fix it, and that would take time from other things, as much as I loved working on cars.

The thing about punishment or consequences is it has to have meaning for the kid. Yelling and screaming isn't going to do it, telling them they are a slut or some sort of sinner isn't going to work, if a kid feels like all they are going to get from the parent is yelling and screaming and disrespect, they will tune it out, that much I remember from my growing up (my parents were good people, but they had fucked up things in them, including where consequences for trivial things could be blown way out of proportion..spent time in therapy working through some of that). You hit the nail on the head, it is the kid feeling like parents care about what they are doing and understanding why they are doing it (I totally agree,the old 'because I said so' doesn't work with teens very well).

I also agree with other posters, a hickey is not necessarily indicative the kid is going to have sex, they are experimenting and learning, the boy who did it isn't necessarily a low life, he is just a kid who is hot under the collar and experimenting. What I would tell my daughter (or what I would tell my son if he got one or gave one) is what I was concerned with wasn't that he/she got a hickey, that it was gotten in a mindless way (god am I sounding like my father, scary...). I would tell them I can understand making out, the thrill of actually having contact with someone I found attractive, trying things out, but that what I was worried about is it happened without control, that was the issue, more then what people thought; or worse, was there something behind it besides innocent experimentation(was the partner doing it to 'show off' to buddies and such.....). I would get upset about the hickey as much as showing concern that the kid understood the difference between doing it because they truly liked the person and were expressing it (accidentally or otherwise) or if it was something dumb.

On the other hand, you talk about giving 'bad' impressions. Serious violin and viola students who practice long hours (and these days, this often means pretty young kids practicing 3,4 or more hours a day) can get a pretty mean mark/hickey on their necks from the edge of the instrument rubbing there.....I have heard quite a few stories from other parents where adults came up to them and asked them if they weren't upset their kid was going around with a huge hickey on their neck like that, worried they were up to no good..the parents usually get a laugh out of this and with a straight face would say "no, I would be worried if they didn't have a huge hickey on their neck" and walk away, without explaining

 

[Ldy_Sea]

Frbidding her to see this boy will lead to her lying to be with him, and maybe push her into going further than she would have otherwise.

One time when I was 18 My bf was at my house and my dad was sitting in the dining room mom was in the kitchen, my sister was on the couch across from us reading. So my whole familly could see us. He had his hand in my shorts and was fingering me until I made him stop.

Another time in the back of his moms car when we were going visit his family, his mm was driving and his cousin was in teh front seat and agai he fingered me. That time he made me cum.

Hickeys are a normal part of being a young teen. Just teach your daughter to hide the mark, and make sure ots not hidden by clothes.

Let her know you love her and are always around to help her. Share your opinions with her, but let her make her own choices. It's the hardest part of being a parent letting your kids screw up butit's how we learned and how they need to learn.

Be open honest and forthright. Talk with his parents. Make sure they know your rules IE no closed dorrs or being alone in a room, what time you expect your daughter home, hw often you epect a call/text from her, and ask them what rules they have for him. Knowing the other set of parents and making sure you both hae similar expectations is one way to make sure your daughter doesn't do something she will regret for the rest of her life.