Not For The Thin-Skinned

[annaswirls]

anyone heard from Mr. Carrington? TheRainMan?

 

[Angeline]

anyone heard from Mr. Carrington? TheRainMan?

Not me, but maybe if we click our heels three times and say his name...or was that clap our hands and say I do believe in poets...

 

[annaswirls]

Not me, but maybe if we click our heels three times and say his name...or was that clap our hands and say I do believe in poets...

I Do I DO!

Thought of him when Sandy struck. Pretty sure his place was right on the beach.

 

[Angeline]

I Do I DO!

Thought of him when Sandy struck. Pretty sure his place was right on the beach.

I DO TOO! (And I really hope all is well with him.)

*clicking, clapping, clacking and shacka lacka ding donging for Pat and other wayward Lit poets*

 

[champagne1982]

anyone heard from Mr. Carrington? TheRainMan?

I was hoping that if anyone had, it would have been you. I hope the same as you ladies do, that all is well.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

Patrick was so good for my ego but that's not the only reason I miss him. He's been on my mind too, perhaps that's a good omen.

 

[annaswirls]

We fell out of touch after I put Mannequin Envy to rest. There are no new books on Amazon. I'm sure he is fine, just nice to think on him.

 

[todski28]

*flatlined*

"a crazy person is just someone
that has missed their time to die"

*The Redemption of Althalus* by David and Leigh Eddings

How many times did he pass
in his first years?
no one kept tally or score
now he lives with those
consequences evermore

splayed his chest, sliced him,
diced him, stitched him back
together
Proclaimed him a miracle

Bi-lateral bulging intestines
broken heart,
fingers like triggers
can't straighten without joints,
wheezy bellows so bad they
would just quit, turning him cold
and blue
All scalpels, whining beeps,
of loveless machines

eccentric child, slow to learn
a testament to mans ability
to delay death
eccentricity put off as a phase

Fast forward decades,
not so much eccentricity
imaginary friends that
screech in the night,
that whisper with no
understanding

more drugs than a chemist
all of which they insist you
take twice daily,
consequences for not,
lads in white coats

I see him weep at what I have
what he never will
a world that fits in
I weep with him for
he is my brother

Flat lined too many times
did he just miss his day to die?

 

[KatieJones]

Hey Tod,

Here are my thoughts in red. Generally my comments refer to the lines above them. They are my first reaction upon reading and because this is a work-shopping thread with a 'buyer beware title' I have spent no time worrying about how I have phrased my comments. All they offer is one reader's take on your words. Take 'em or leave 'em but know they were not meant to offend in anyway.

K.

*flatlined*

"a crazy person is just someone
that has missed their time to die"

*The Redemption of Althalus* by David and Leigh Eddings

How many times did he pass
pass is a rather weak word. One we use to save people's feelings but the rest of your poems seems to be about facing the harsh realities of dying or not dying so I'd pick a word with more bite or at least not a euphemism
in his first years?
no one kept tally or score
If you use the question mark that tells me that you will be punctuating and perhaps following connected rules like capitalization so in my opinion No should have a capital N

now he lives with those
consequences evermore
You tell us in detail what the consequences are so therefore the word consequences loses its purpose in this line. "Lives with" could be an interesting contrast with the fact that you opened with death but it kind of fades here into the woodwork a little

splayed his chest, sliced him,
diced him, stitched him back
together
Proclaimed him a miracle
Love the proclaim him a miracle line. I'd re-work the things they did to him without fewer pronouns

Bi-lateral bulging intestines
broken heart,
I wouldn't use broken heart unless you were going to play off its cliched meaning
fingers like triggers
really strong image
can't straighten without joints,
Because you have such a strong image above I don't know if you need the above line
wheezy bellows so bad they
would just quit, turning him cold
and blue
I think 'would' probably needs to be 'could' or 'might' And I think cold and blue may be overkill

All scalpels, whining beeps,
of loveless machines
Love 'loveless machines' that says so much but I wonder if at this point I need more of a glimpse into the person and not just his experience. I am starting to lose my sense of him and if I don't care about him I won't care what happened to him
eccentric child, slow to learn
you lost me here. Not sure if its the doctors or the patient who is the eccentric child and slow to learn
a testament to mans ability
if you keep man's ability it needs an apostrophe. I wouldn't keep this line because it sounds over used
to delay death
I can't say for sure because I have now read the whole thing in its entirety but I don't think you need to explain that medicine and its trappings is not an automatic good thing. I think you have made that clear without overtly stating it
eccentricity put off as a phase
this I don't understand at all
Fast forward decades,
not so much eccentricity
imaginary friends that
screech in the night,
that whisper with no
understanding
This whole above section seems like it's hinting at someone with a mental illness which seems like a completely different point or focus from the beginning of the poem
more drugs than a chemist
not a strong line
all of which they insist you
take twice daily,
consequences for not,
did you mean 'or' not?
lads in white coats
referring to medical staff as people in white coats is aa rather over used idea

I see him weep at what I have
what he never will
a world that fits in
a world that fits in or a world for him to fit into ?
I weep with him for
he is my brother
When you're editing lines like this saying, "I weep for him and then saying, "for his is my brother' only works if both lines hold their own and I don't think the first one does. It would do the same for me if you just said "I weep for my brother
Flat lined too many times
did he just miss his day to die?

This is an interesting idea and it would seem it's actually a quotation but in a poem I find it on the wordy side.
Here's one way of streamlining things:
"I weep for my brother
whose life is measured
in flat lines and worry
he missed his day to die.

 

[todski28]

Thanks Katie. well he has all the issues mentioned mental and physical the mental manifested later in life the physical is how life started. I will copy your comments and really think them over. You have no need to worry about my feelings go hard, I want this poem to really work as it is personal to me.

He needed open heart surgery he was born with a hole in his heart so broken heart was a literal meaning was going to use, heart a leaky bucket

 

[todski28]

Flatlined (re-write)

"a crazy person is just someone
that has missed their time to die"

*The Redemption of Althalus* by David and Leigh Eddings

How many times
did his heart stop
medically dead
couldn’t keep tally

they proclaimed him a miracle
life over death

Bi-lateral bulging intestines
hole in his heart,
fingers like triggers
asthma filled bronchioles
would just quit, pale blue
resuscitation a mothers burden
ventolin, puffers, and nebulisars
control his rebellious lungs
antibiotics, immunosuppressant's
so he could live

his squalls and screams in mothers dreams
he lay deserted in neonatal units
where nurses tended him day and night
his fight for life begun at birth

scalpels, whining beeps
of loveless machines
brought ohhs and ahhs
infancy swallowed in
smiles that lied, didn't touch their eyes
staff so obsessed with the medicine
they forgot about him,

hospital stays became less frequent
lungs strengthen, heart stitched
held together with a mother’s love
sacrifice for his life.

Childhood looms, his parents love dies
cast him into a void
eccentric, slow to learn
not quite there,

erratic times filled with violence
and drugs,
seventeen primary schools
hell holes, the bells toll
high school manifests

imaginary friends that
screech in the night,
that whisper in the day
they play with his thoughts
as a child would a toy,

he moves from

torment to torment
drugs to drugs
flat lined too many times
he missed his day to die

 

[Angeline]

"a crazy person is just someone
that has missed their time to die"

*The Redemption of Althalus* by David and Leigh Eddings

How many times
did his heart stop
medically dead
couldn’t keep tally

they proclaimed him a miracle
life over death

Bi-lateral bulging intestines
hole in his heart,
fingers like triggers
asthma filled bronchioles
would just quit, pale blue
resuscitation a mothers burden
ventolin, puffers, and nebulisars
control his rebellious lungs
antibiotics, immunosuppressant's
so he could live

his squalls and screams in mothers dreams
he lay deserted in neonatal units
where nurses tended him day and night
his fight for life begun at birth

scalpels, whining beeps
of loveless machines
brought ohhs and ahhs
infancy swallowed in
smiles that lied, didn't touch their eyes
staff so obsessed with the medicine
they forgot about him,

hospital stays became less frequent
lungs strengthen, heart stitched
held together with a mother’s love
sacrifice for his life.

Childhood looms, his parents love dies
cast him into a void
eccentric, slow to learn
not quite there,

erratic times filled with violence
and drugs,
seventeen primary schools
hell holes, the bells toll
high school manifests

imaginary friends that
screech in the night,
that whisper in the day
they play with his thoughts
as a child would a toy,

he moves from

torment to torment
drugs to drugs
flat lined too many times
he missed his day to die

Hey tods. I said I was going to comment on your Tarmac poem and now I'm here. My parents always said I do stuff backwards.

Your poem is carefully constructed and has powerful content, great word choices, a good flow and yet it doesn't all come together for me. I see that it is a powerful story but I feel like it is trying to cover so much ground that the good stuff gets undermined. You have all these themes fighting each other: the medical issues, motherlessness, uncaring caregivers, parental breakup, the schools, violence, etc. It's overwhelming, all of it. Now that is not to say that it isn't a good or meaningful or compelling story: it is all that but, for me, too much at once.

If it were me, I'd break this poem into parts, each a separate poem focused on one small piece of the story. You can still tell the whole story, just in smaller bites. And if you did that you might end up with a chapbook's worth of poems but that is a good thing, no?

Anyway this is just a general response, so if it helps great and if it's not for you, no worries. But we could talk more about it if you want.

 

[greenmountaineer]

"a crazy person is just someone
that has missed their time to die"

*The Redemption of Althalus* by David and Leigh Eddings

How many times
did his heart stop
medically dead
couldn’t keep tally

they proclaimed him a miracle
life over death

Bi-lateral bulging intestines
hole in his heart,
fingers like triggers
asthma filled bronchioles
would just quit, pale blue
resuscitation a mothers burden
ventolin, puffers, and nebulisars
control his rebellious lungs
antibiotics, immunosuppressant's
so he could live

his squalls and screams in mothers dreams
he lay deserted in neonatal units
where nurses tended him day and night
his fight for life begun at birth

scalpels, whining beeps
of loveless machines
brought ohhs and ahhs
infancy swallowed in
smiles that lied, didn't touch their eyes
staff so obsessed with the medicine
they forgot about him,

hospital stays became less frequent
lungs strengthen, heart stitched
held together with a mother’s love
sacrifice for his life.

Childhood looms, his parents love dies
cast him into a void
eccentric, slow to learn
not quite there,

erratic times filled with violence
and drugs,
seventeen primary schools
hell holes, the bells toll
high school manifests

imaginary friends that
screech in the night,
that whisper in the day
they play with his thoughts
as a child would a toy,

he moves from
torment to torment
drugs to drugs
flat lined too many times
he missed his day to die

This needs a sequay, tod. How does a mother's love/sacrifice for his life turn suddenly into ....his parents' love dies? In fact, I could argue, given Angie's comments, with a fuller explanation the poem could end quite nicely with "Childhood looms, his parents' love dies."

I have no doubt what you described here happened, given your honest self-disclosure since becoming active on PF&D, and that angst has given rise to some good work. Being no stranger to that dark side as muse myself, I appreciate such poetry perhaps more than others do, but from an artistic point of view, given the frequent examples, I don't think you need to go there as much as you have.

As a start, I'm not sure the epigraph does much. I'd ditch what I highlighted in bold, and I'd tighten up what comes after "his parents' love dies," assuming, of course, the reader knows why.

 

[todski28]

Thank you for the comments Angeline and gm, both are valid points and much to think over. So much to work at and learn.

 

[todski28]

This needs a sequay, tod.

Do you mean segue or sequel here?

 

[greenmountaineer]

Do you mean segue or sequel here?

I meant segue; sorry about the earlier misspelling.

 

[pelegrino]

PHONETIC PROBLEMS

In translating Homer,
From Greek into Latin,
There was one problem,
Phonetic.
Then Odysseus became Ulysses,
So there were two problems,
Phonetic,
And although the hero changed name,
The poem is still called "Odyssey".
How many problems sum to that?

Etruscan ignorance,
Roman rigidity,
Scholarly acculturation,
Even as early as Virgil's,
Proves more vicious in its naivety,
Than that of ordinary economic refugees.

 

[Angeline]

~bump~

 

[Piscator]

This is before my time here, but looks interesting.

 

[Winter_Fare]

I don't have a thick skin wish I did but wishing doesn't make it so...
100% admiration for anyone willing to put such visceral work out for a public thrashing

 

[butters]

I don't have a thick skin wish I did but wishing doesn't make it so...
100% admiration for anyone willing to put such visceral work out for a public thrashing

it's often a case of time, winterfare, some distancing from the original write–especially if it has intense emotional connections for the author.

as for 'public thrashing', that's really not the intent: anyone who thinks critiquing a work means they have to tear strips off it and be rude should never critique!
it's more about an in-depth examination of the piece (not the person) and what responses it engenders in a reader. Some will be more technical in their observations, whilst others will type responses that come from an entirely different place. Nothing to say an author has to change a word of their original, just thoughts showing how individuals respond to it

 

[Winter_Fare]

Perhaps the thread's sentiment is more of a public threshing then?

 

[butters]

Perhaps the thread's sentiment is more of a public threshing then?

maybe, though i'd like to think of it more as a winnowing.

the reason we're reinvigorating this thread, as you may have seen over on the hangout, is to promote fuller feedback...letting the author know what we felt worked, or didn't, and why, but most of all to deliver an honest description of how other eyes receive a piece. Sometimes there's little to offer in the way of suggested improvements, and it's just as important the author gets to hear how their poems touch a reader. Other times, one person might not see how to offer improvements but another can...so extended discussion is a helpful process for all involved. Someone might think their suggestions might help, someone else might disagree...it's vital for the poet to weigh up all feedback and decide if any of it helps them. As another poet here often said (twelve-oh-one), the rule of three is one to pay attention to. If 3 people are all mentioning the same area as one of concern or as a home-run, it's a good idea to listen.

 

[butters]

.......

 

[Piscator]

I've little experience with critique of my poetry but some experience with reviews of scientific publications. Best advice I received for with respsect ro a negative review qas put it in a drawer for a few days and then look at it again.