Not For The Thin-Skinned

[Angeline]

I've little experience with critique of my poetry but some experience with reviews of scientific publications. Best advice I for with respsect ro a negative review qas put it in a drawer for a few days and then look at it again.

This imo is excellent advice. When I get feedback, negative or positive, I try to learn from it, use what helps and discard what doesn't. And I don't get emotionally involved; I don't take it personally even if it's offered with a nasty edge. Like Mrtenant says, some people are bullies. That's their problem, not mine.

I've worked as an editor and understand authors are attached to and protective of their work. As an author I get that too. One can give feedback that's honest and respectful and recognize that an author may not agree with it. That's ok! It's their work!

 

[butters]

if cascadiabound's willing, i'd like to take a look here at her 'black cat' piece in the live writes challenge

*place holder*

okay, i got her blessings so here goes:

so, first off, thankyou for allowing me to spend some time on this piece of yours. Here are my thoughts as I go through it, thinking aloud as it were I may be way overthinking this, too, which reflects on me, not you!

by cascadiabound


Black cat, fort cat
Bold green eyes, unflinching
Prowling the perimeter
Sleeping in the blankets
Or curled in the laundry basket
So many hiding places

me: there's something about those 2 simple words–black cat–that engage immediately; their sound, for one, both clipped and sleek, their connotations of both 'good luck' and 'bad-luck-if crossing one's path'. So, right out the gate you have me wondering if this is just an actual sleek cat or if it stands as some metaphor.

Then I get well and truly lost with 'fort cat'. Perhaps it's some colloquialism I'm unfamiliar with? Tell me where I should be going with that image... Sound-wise it connects with the clipped sounds, and I don't find the repetition of 'cat' a distraction. No, just the word 'fort' because I don't know where I should go with that. Should I be imagining some military outpost where a black cat stalks the ramparts? Or maybe some fort made of pinned together bedclothes, perfect for children?

The 'Bold green eyes' are a charming flash of directness, unflinching, unapologetic in any way. Does this piece need the word 'unflinching' when it already has 'bold'?... and then caught up still trying to visualise where exactly this bold cat is prowling. Goes back to my confusion over the word 'fort'. When I read right through, I'm seeing the fort as the safe-behind-barricades shelter built around our minds, our homes, keeping the bad things out of our world 'with hope, with luck'. In this initial stanza, though, I'm still confused between 'fort' and the more domestic setting of blankets and laundry baskets. So now I'm back to seeing a sleek, unapologetic, bold-eyed pussy cat, prowling the perimeters of a home. Are the green eyes a nod to envy? Envy at how free some seem to be who aren't shuttered behind their personal forts? Why should such a bold cat choose to hide? This speaks of uncertainty, something we're familiar with that's suddenly gone, but we don't know where or for how long. Cats are better than dogs at doing this, for sure.

This might benefit from losing a couple extraneous words, though I do enjoy the way the sounds reflect the familiarity readers have with the motions of a cat, how there's a drawn-out expression to a whole lot of what they do Having said that, a slightly cleaner wording might tighten it without changing the overall sense of 'cat-ness', like this:

Black cat, fort cat
Bold green eyes
Prowls perimeters
Sleeps in blankets
Curls in the laundry basket
So many hiding places

Black cat, lost cat
Where did she go?
Dark forest consumed her
Prey of coyote or cougar?
Days, weeks, months elapsed
Little black cat gone gone gone

me: Ah, so here we have it... the loss, the uncertainty, the worry and insecurity about what has happened and if it might be permanent. Anyone who's had a pet that goes missing–for however brief a time–can relate to this on a visceral level, panic fighting hope, expectation fighting acceptance. On the level of a metaphor, there's a shrinking of hope (or Hope), like a memory of the physical presence is reduced over time, the memory of that sense of brightness, optimism even, shrinks with time and there's no saying if it'll ever come back. THAT is reminiscent to me of the 'black dog' coming to visit, so is this playing off that, in a black cat v black dog scenario?
By now, I'm looking at this through the twinned lenses of covid and political stuff *rollseyes*. Might not be your intention at all, but it's the kind of theme that can be applied to all manner of things, from personal relations to fighting cancer, I suppose. So, for me, this speaks overall about a loss of hope in people, their behaviour, at a time of pandemic.

As for the actual phrasing, kept on a non-metaphorical basis, lines 3&4 look as if they could be cleaned up some. Like the idea is there, but not the best way to say it yet...yeah, it's a live write, and all of our live writes are raw.

Black cat, miracle cat
More than two years gone
Where has she been?
Chip tag returns her
Will she stay now?
Or wander again?
A cat called hope

me: Liking how you start each stanza with 'Black cat' and add a descriptor to it. With only 3 stanzas, it doesn't get too old and makes me think (each time) of how a cat steps so lightly into our hearts, steps we miss when they're absent.

So, after 2 years absence, there's a return; a return that brings incredulity, joy, questions, but that's tempered by uncertainty and potential for further loss. The physical cat returns, the metaphorical hope... here I am again with covid, the loss of joy and hope as experienced especially by those frontline healthcare workers, vaccines developed and too often shunned, people not doing what they need to do to protect others, and now–even as Omicron surges–the potential of fewer deaths, better vaccines/treatments, and a possible weakening overall of covid allowing life to resume a more hopeful outlook. It's a tempered hope, though, as with so many around the globe as yet unvaccinated, who knows what the next variant might bring?

"Chip tag returns her'...a nod to the benefits of science, the kindness of a fellow human being, or simple observation of the reality of a missing pet returned? Either way, there's something feels a little clunky about 'chip tag' and that may well be more to do with me still hearing poetry in english english and to a native-born american it doesn't sound off at all.

Would this work better with A cat called Hope as its title and leaving it off as last line? Or would that be too obvious? I kind of like 'Or wander again?' as a final line. though others may prefer the framing with the ending you have.

Overall, I got distracted mainly by 'fort' and that sent me down rabbit holes. Kept me awake one night for hours!
A little tightening, perhaps a touch of rephrasing, but–overall–I thoroughly enjoyed seeing where this poem took me in little cat steps and leaps off the ramparts.

 

[cascadiabound]

Thank you butters. Appreciate the comments.
I thought I might wait to say too much and see if anyone else wants to chime in.
cb

My laptop has been fussy and I prefer to live write using a real keyboard, so I have been on a brief hiatus. I do really like some of the cleaner suggestions in the opening stanza.
As I wrote this, I did start with a specific cat and a specific story but I did also find that my thoughts did evolve to feel like it was a much wider metaphor, as butters saw as well. It seems to me that a poem is more successful when more than one thing can be read into it.

To answer butter's wonderment, this is a cat which belongs to a historic Hudson Bay Fort, now operating as a museum/ interpretive center. So she does literally prowl the Fort ramparts, and settles herself in the 19th century baskets of laundry. I found her return to be deeply hopeful in this time of loss and grief. The science of a micro chip making that possible is not so far off from the miracle of vaccines. I did really struggle with the wording "chip tag" - maybe microchip would have been better or some other reference - I still am uncertain how to make that stanza work better.

The cat is not actually named "Hope" but to me... she will forever symbolize hope and miracles to me. I would keep the last line as originally written.

butters - you have set a high bar for critique. It is my intention to pick a poem to offer critique on, but life has overwhelmed a bit.

Thank you again for this.

cb

 

[butters]

ah! now the history of the cat sheds a whole new light on your piece, cascadia

i often find the discussion about a poem as interesting as the poem itself, shining light and exposing nuances that might exist but the reader misses...not through any fault of their own, necessarily, but we all bring different experiences to the poetic table and we draw on those to create our own understanding of a piece.

I the imagery of the cat prowling the fort's ramparts, and how its return does inspire hope, or Hope.

 

[Winter_Fare]

Hi all!
Loved all the new poems, rattled this off and submitted it today because I am feeling the days grow longer. As it's neither sensitive nor personal I promise I am ready for all feedback and help. I know it can be better. Help!

The sun will rise
The rain will fall
And I will take you out
Into our garden

I will take it all

You are the earth
Alive with spring
And I the rain upon you

See the grass
Heavy will dew
Lies back
As I demand of you
And open
As a songbird's throat
Is your desire for me

Wide eyes alive with wonder
At the art of giving me
The blessed sunlight on your thighs
And all the wealth between

 

[butters]

just saw this, Winter-Fare... will come back to it when i can. It has some really nice stuff going on.

 

[butters]

apologies for taking so long to come back to this but here's my take. I hope others will come along and offer their own views which may support of contrast with mine.

thoughts: it's not unusual for a piece we write that we might not be so excited about actually hits a home-run with readers. This may be one of those, even if a few minor touches could polish it further. Of course, this is just my opinion and others may have more constructive critique to offer. I'll admit to my mind being in a pretty sleepy mode right now which also makes it more susceptible to engaging. Whatever's going on, it's working.

There's an almost hypnotic pressure in this, set up in these first 5 lines... the poem directs the reader, choosing plain language that doesn't distract from where it states it will lead, like a voice-over of profound images of sunrises and rains, cyclical, bigger than an individual, a pattern of life. You engage the reader by including them, most specifically with the phrase "our garden". The author is sharing this poem on an equal footing with its reader. The "I will take it all' line is a taking of control and I, as a reader allowing myself to be open to suggestion, find it compels me to follow where it leads.

The second stanza is a rejoicing in fertility. Ripe, ready to bring forth, burgeoning. I really like the line "And I the rain upon you". Right now, I'd like to suggest some replacement of 'rain' in the first so as not to repeat but i can't come up with anything that strengthens what's already there. So I ask myself 'is the repetition detrimental?', and the answer my poem-drugged brain offers is 'no'. If anything, it's a reinforcement of the vitality of water, the interconnectedness between water and life... water alone cannot create life, it's the combination of water and earth that's required to bring forth new growth.

The next stanza continues in the same nature, instructing, a voice in my head that directs my puppet gaze, shows me what it wants me to see, instilling the eroticism... the imagery, the hues and sensory coolness anyone might recognise of wet grass, the languid reclining, the images brought to mind (for me) of seeping sexuality, wet blades dripping, yada yada yada.

See the grass
Heavy will dew

Then here is the first break for me: ''Lies back''. For me that misses something by a hair's breadth. Would 'recline' work better there? "See the grass/Heavy with dew/Recline"

Which is followed by: "As I demand of you"

Is 'demand' too strong a word here? It kind of breaks the spell a little for me, though if I were more inclined towards the whole D/s genre it might prove its worth. Every poem is an interaction between author and reader: every reader brings something different to the table in their personal experiences as memories triggered by the author's word-choice. WIth my own background of enduring a destructive relationship for many years, the word 'demand' jolts me by having unpleasant images and memories brought to the surface. Even so, I can see its place, just letting you know the reaction of one reader.

EDIT: rereading, with 'recline' instead of 'lies back', it seems to soften the effect of 'demand' on me, makes it a more sensual rather than unpleasant experience.

SO now I'm distracted, and having lost the whole languid/hypnotic feel maybe that makes what follows less appealing in a way.

And open
As a songbird's throat
Is your desire for me

Perhaps there's some way to reword those three lines from "And open"-"desire for me". Songbirds sing in spring, calling mates, so it's not inappropriate; I like the concept. Somehow I can't lose the sharpness of a beak, though, when my mind's tangling with the visuals of the pinkness of sex, the softness, open-throated appearance of sexual arousal and invitation. Yeah, it's those 3 lines... maybe it's because "Is your desire for me" comes across as a bit Yoda-ish? So the concept's fine, I'm just distracted by the 'demand' and the yoda-ism.

The final stanza recoups enough of the 'bigger than us' mysticism, the trance-like state of warm sunlight on thighs, the awe of the act of creativity to bring me back into line. I question if "Wide eyes alive with wonder'' works better as ''Eyes wide, alive with wonder"... here the poem uses sound to engage aurally with image, from the soft 'w's to stronger 'I's (which interconnect lines 1 and 3)
and the sensuality of 's's, with 'wealth' reconnecting with the 'w's and 'l's in the first line. Yes, there's an art to giving, one which most of us fail to achieve on a regular basis physically but is still there in our minds. 'Art' lifts the act up beyond the mere physical joining.
The final line seems... hmmmmn... yes, I can appreciate the 'wealth'... it just falls a little flatter for me after the almost sacred nature of 'blessed sunlight on your thighs' line. Maybe as a reader I just want to be more lost in the mysticism, the hypnotic level, and 'wealth' brings it back a little more to earth with its financial connotations. Which, of course, might be EXACTLY why you chose that word, to reinforce the notion of rains f

EDIT: well, damn! the puter's been glitching i know, but there was more to this and it got cut off. I thought i saw it posted properly so that's a might confusing i had it all on word,, c&p'd, then closed the pad without saving.

 

[Winter_Fare]

Yodaism it is
And fix it I will
Thanks Butters.

Wealth was treasure in my first draft I might co back to that.

Open as a songbird's throat... Well... I hadn't visualised it that erm graphically at all it was more about the sounds she'd make. Ouchie beak.

The encounter is imaginary, fantasy, strong D/s element yes, I'm sad it triggered you. Poetry is the wild west for readers without categories beyond erotic and non erotic you never know what you're going to click on as you browse. I will definitely tag more considerately next time.

 

[butters]

Yodaism it is
And fix it I will
Thanks Butters.

Wealth was treasure in my first draft I might co back to that.

Open as a songbird's throat... Well... I hadn't visualised it that erm graphically at all it was more about the sounds she'd make. Ouchie beak.

The encounter is imaginary, fantasy, strong D/s element yes, I'm sad it triggered you. Poetry is the wild west for readers without categories beyond erotic and non erotic you never know what you're going to click on as you browse. I will definitely tag more considerately next time.

i think i was looking at the possibility of dropping "And' from your last line, that was all, and couldn't decide if 'wide eyes alive with wonder' or 'eyes wide, alive with wonder' worked better, but just by dropping that 'And' at the start of your last line seemed to lose the adverse effects of 'wealth' for me. No idea why!

lol @ graphically.

well at least i got the D/s bit You managed to go beyond the perceptions too many hold about that to make it a sharing, an equality, even a romanticism, for a D can only be a D if the s allows that dynamic... that showing the control aspect originates from the sub. or something like that, i'm not entirely au-fait with it all but have had interesting conversations.

nope, no need to apologise... long time ago, there's perspective now, not traumatising stuff. I meant to convey an insight as to why i saw/felt what i did and how that could be very different to another reader.

writing is the most important aspect. tagging is a consideration but, as you know, reading anyone's poetry is an emotional minefield we dare to step into. let's not go boom!

 

[Winter_Fare]

Iteration the second

Wet Offering

The sun will rise
The rain will fall
And I will take you out
Into our garden

I will take it all

You are the earth
Alive with spring
And I the rain upon you

See the grass
Heavy with dew

Lie back
Let me behold you

Open

Eyes alive with wonder
At the art of offering
The blessed sunlight on your thighs
And all the love between

 

[Winter_Fare]

I can't decide if I've improved it or bowdlerised it it's lost something. I can't unsee the beak so the bird is gone.