Nude vs naked and some related questions.

[Five_Inch_Heels]

I'm a gonna toss in a nekkid here.

 

[ElectricBlue]

In general, the art world in the US would use 'nude' for the three Sargent, Manet and Michelangelo examples.
At a nudist camp, I would posit the word 'nude' would be used.

I'm sensing there's a cultural overlay here. Americans seem to be defaulting to "nude" as the term for the state of undress, whereas the English (including Australians here) and Europeans have a slightly different nuance between naked and nude.

 

[AG31]

Mostly naked, with one or two provocative minxes = knowingly sexual = nude

Good insight.

 

[AG31]

I'm sensing there's a cultural overlay here. Americans seem to be defaulting to "nude" as the term for the state of undress, whereas the English (including Australians here) and Europeans have a slightly different nuance between naked and nude.

What is that different nuance?

 

[ElectricBlue]

What is that different nuance?

That's what this thread is revealing. In my (English English) exposure to literature and art, I've always seen a wider range of subtlety between the two terms, with more shades of grey between them. Whereas the Americans here seem to be more black and white.

I'm also wondering if there's an element of the "moral Puritanism" in America - that divide between god fearing and porn capital of the universe (which I don't see here in Australia so much) - but I'm sensing (from my knowledge of art history) that's it's a longer, more historical, overlay. Two different English speaking cultures, with two separate languages.

 

[Trionyx]

Interesting, but how do you know this?

While I can't quote you a specific source, during my studies of anthropology we had interesting discussions about how different cultures have different customs, different dress and different sexual attractions. The issue of bare breasts in some cultures was discussed and anthropologists had confirmed that men were not necessarily erotically stimulated by seeing a bare breast, indeed they saw them every day on all women. What I found interesting was how in some of these cultures the ass was the epitome of sexual attraction. It was usually covered and bigger asses were considered more attractive.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm also wondering if there's an element of the "moral Puritanism" in America - that divide between god fearing and porn capital of the universe (which I don't see here in Australia so much) - but I'm sensing (from my knowledge of art history) that's it's a longer, more historical, overlay. Two different English speaking cultures, with two separate languages.

I think there might be something to this. "Naked" can mean exposed, not just without clothing. Adam and Eve realized they were naked, not nude. Naked has more of a connotation of a state that is out of place or out of kilter with things as they should be. People at a nudist colony are nude, not naked. They're supposed to be nude. It's normal. But if you strip your clothes off in public and run down the street, I think "naked" is a better word to describe the state of affairs than "nude."

I wrote an incest story called "Mom, You're Naked!" I don't think it would work as well or mean quite the same thing if it was "Mom, You're Nude!"

I think of "nude" as being the more elevated term. It's more high brow. That's why you would usually refer to people without clothes in art as "nude" not "naked." It might also be that "nude" can be a noun, whereas "naked" is just an adjective.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

To me, 'nude' is by choice, 'naked' less so. The Roman lady was nude as her naked slaves bathed her.

 

[Nynah]

As someone who has written exclusively in the E&V category on this site, I have used both "naked" and "nude" pretty interchangeably, much like Simon has described (to avoid repeating the same word over and over). I do feel there is a subtle difference and again, I find myself tending to side with Simon. "Naked" to me invokes a state of being where being clothed is the norm and whoever is unclothed is othered and described as "naked" to explicitly differentiate them. This obviously can and is often used in a sexual context, especially with reluctance/coercion as an additional factor.

"Nude" can be a state of being. People are described as "in the nude" and to me, this reads as something of a conscious choice by whoever is partaking in nudity. It can obviously be sexual as well, but I find "nude" feels more at home in a consensual context.

Of course, I'll probably continue to use both to mean the same thing in my writing as many of my characters are constantly undressed so being able to describe them with more than just one word makes writing them much easier.

 

[Belegon]

Did you see erections in public very often? Ever? What situations would cause a guy to get erect?

very, very rarely. And as I was one of the newest members of the club, I was probably more susceptible to them than many others. Also, I was 19. I remember once watching two women playing tennis and feeling the need to make sure I was laying on my stomach instead of my back. it mostly had to do with the way things were bouncing, but also with the fact that they were more attractive than a lot of the other club members. Most of the people that lived there were considerably older than me and often out of shape. I have no prejudices about big girls, for example, but I definitely have one about wanting people to seem to care about being somewhat in shape. People that look like they've just "let themselves go" don't appeal to me. But while people being naked wasn't viewed as being embarrassing in any way, a man in a state of arousal was something you pretended not to notice, mostly because it was embarrassing for him.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I agree that nude implies choice and purpose, whereas naked is simply lacking clothes and may not be with intent (but can be). And nude is only for people. When naked cakes were trendy a few years ago, they were never nude. A bare black branch in the snow can be naked but never nude (nudibranches are totally different!)

May I also promote use of the synonyms 'starkers' and 'in the altogether'? I don't think they're solely British.

 

[TheLobster]

May I also promote use of the synonyms 'starkers' and 'in the altogether'? I don't think they're solely British.

“Stark naked” is an expression in other English varieties, so agreed on the first one. But “in the altogether” sounds so chiefly British that I can only imagine it said in perfect RP by a stuffy BBC announcer.

For similar expression across the pond, I believe “in the buff” has some use.

 

[Trionyx]

But “in the altogether” sounds so chiefly British that I can only imagine it said in perfect RP by a stuffy BBC announcer.

Funny but I heard this occasionally when I was a child in the South (USA). If I recall correctly, it was used by adults wanting to appear proper or when children were around.

 

[AG31]

I agree that nude implies choice and purpose, whereas naked is simply lacking clothes and may not be with intent (but can be). And nude is only for people. When naked cakes were trendy a few years ago, they were never nude. A bare black branch in the snow can be naked but never nude (nudibranches are totally different!)

May I also promote use of the synonyms 'starkers' and 'in the altogether'? I don't think they're solely British.

'in the altogether' may not be solely British, but I've never heard 'starkers' in an American context.

The problem with these conversations is what do you mean by 'British?' UK? Non-American/Canadian English speaking world? Dunno of they say 'starkers' in Oz or Kiwi land.

 

[AG31]

“Stark naked” is an expression in other English varieties, so agreed on the first one. But “in the altogether” sounds so chiefly British that I can only imagine it said in perfect RP by a stuffy BBC announcer.

For similar expression across the pond, I believe “in the buff” has some use.

'stark naked', yes. 'starkers', no. If we're equating 'non-British' with American/Canadian. Oh, yeah. Then there's South Africa. I always forget that. Are there any South Africans here in AH?

 

[Kumquatqueen]

But “in the altogether” sounds so chiefly British that I can only imagine it said in perfect RP by a stuffy BBC announcer.

I'm sure it's used in St Trinian's films.

For similar expression across the pond, I believe “in the buff” has some use.

Ah, good call. It's used in the UK but not common. I always associate it with young fit celebs.

 

[Trionyx]

I’ve heard starkers in the US. Maybe the internet is letting terminology move not only from the US but also to. I personally like the term as it implies an abbreviation of stark naked.

 

[FidelityBoss]

A theologian, with whom I am close, was commenting on the fact that Christ on the cross is almost always shown in a loin cloth. I'd always assumed this was due to the general prudery of society, not just the church. He thought that the underlying reason was that sex is a very powerful force and that we should not be distracted when we should be attending to worship.

In other words, it represents a respect for our bodily creation, as befits a religion based on incarnation.

This got me thinking about the power of the display of breasts and genitals. There may be a valid reason for society to have laws against uncovering those parts of the body in public. Sex is very powerful. Sometimes we need to be able to attend to other things.

Here's an example of how nude and naked are used to describe different things.


From Shock Wave by @visioneer

Do you find this distinction between nude and naked to be persuasive? If so, would you addres the questions below?

- Is this figure by John Singer Sargent naked or nude?
https://arthur.io/art/john-singer-sargent/nude-study-of-thomas-e-mckeller

- Is this figure by Edouard Manet naked or nude?
https://www.manet.org/olympia.jsp

- Are these people in the photos of a nudist camp naked or nude?
https://forum.literotica.com/threads/nudists.1627078/#post-100401879

- If National Geographic is to be believed, it is common for women to go bare breasted in some equatorial societies. How does this affect the men? Are they just used to it, so that breasts are no longer erotic? Or are they constantly distracted?

- Do people who frequent nudist camps have a lower than normal libido?

- Do any of you get sexually aroused when viewing art that society labels nude? E.g., David by Michelangelo

This is a deep dive into the nude vs. naked debate, like, are we talking art or awkward family reunions? Personally, I think context matters. Sargent’s study? Nude. Manet’s Olympia? Naked with attitude. Nudist camps? Probably just nude, unless someone’s really into volleyball. As for arousal from art, I mean, Michelangelo’s David is a masterpiece, but let’s not get *too* distracted.