Old House Renovation Journal
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Arden
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Psychotic old house lovers
I'ne been looking at used floorboards... yes, tongue & groove. There's a place up north that handles recycled building materials. I used some recycled Douglas Fir tongue & groove for one of the rooms downstairs. You can get it cheaper than new, and the quality is far better. Plus it's already aged, and looks right in the old houses. I didn't refinish the old flooring after it was installed either... I want it just as it is. Old.
mbb308 said:
I'ne been looking at used floorboards... yes, tongue & groove. There's a place up north that handles recycled building materials. I used some recycled Douglas Fir tongue & groove for one of the rooms downstairs. You can get it cheaper than new, and the quality is far better. Plus it's already aged, and looks right in the old houses. I didn't refinish the old flooring after it was installed either... I want it just as it is. Old.
mbb308
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Psychotic old house lovers
We have a lovely old millwork business in town - been around since 1884, and in the same family, too. They probably ran much of the original stuff in these houses.
We're having to replace the inside woodwork (door and window casing, baseboards, etc - the painted surfaces) because the lead removal is just a pain. We took the trim catalog and matched the casing exactly, the stool and apron so closely that nobody can tell the difference, and with only a slight change in the baseboards. Super!
The woodwork is much of the character of these places - the mass and profile. When the housing authority does one, they change all the inside trim to modern profiles, and it looks lost in the rooms - more like a joke. My customer keeps the old trim as closely as possible, and I like that so much better. It earns the 308 stamp of approval!
Arden said:
I'ne been looking at used floorboards... yes, tongue & groove. There's a place up north that handles recycled building materials. I used some recycled Douglas Fir tongue & groove for one of the rooms downstairs. You can get it cheaper than new, and the quality is far better. Plus it's already aged, and looks right in the old houses. I didn't refinish the old flooring after it was installed either... I want it just as it is. Old.
We have a lovely old millwork business in town - been around since 1884, and in the same family, too. They probably ran much of the original stuff in these houses.
We're having to replace the inside woodwork (door and window casing, baseboards, etc - the painted surfaces) because the lead removal is just a pain. We took the trim catalog and matched the casing exactly, the stool and apron so closely that nobody can tell the difference, and with only a slight change in the baseboards. Super!
The woodwork is much of the character of these places - the mass and profile. When the housing authority does one, they change all the inside trim to modern profiles, and it looks lost in the rooms - more like a joke. My customer keeps the old trim as closely as possible, and I like that so much better. It earns the 308 stamp of approval!
Batch
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Re: Re: Re: Psychotic old house lovers
Of course, they will be replaced, all in good time.
That would be ever so nice, to sit for a spell and have some ice tea, on your porch.
It is good that you have found friendly er people in that part of the world.
Arden said:
They are nice, but I have many rotten floorboards to be replaced. When that's done they'll be much better.
*laughing*
Come join me for some iced tea on the porch some time if you ever get up this way.
Actually, the best part of moving here was getting back to the Midwest after 22 years in Dallas. The people of the Midwest are so much friendlier. I missed that.
Of course, they will be replaced, all in good time.
That would be ever so nice, to sit for a spell and have some ice tea, on your porch.
It is good that you have found friendly er people in that part of the world.
mbb308
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Psychotic old house lovers
I always seem to make new friends in the neighborhood when I'm on a job for a while. Most appreciate my efforts and are very complimentary, and they keep an eye on the place when I'm not there, too.
Batchoohus said:
I always seem to make new friends in the neighborhood when I'm on a job for a while. Most appreciate my efforts and are very complimentary, and they keep an eye on the place when I'm not there, too.
mbb308
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South Barton Heights
The neighborhood I've been working in primarily the last four years is called South Barton Heights. It is a neighborhood of 50'-wide lots and detached, mostly frame houses, built from the late 1890's to the Depression. There are a few post-war infill houses, unfortunately of a more modern style.
It has recently been designated as historic, although there is no review process as yet for any house renovations. There is a plans and colors review for renovations in some other local neighborhoods, and we had to go through one for the garage we redid in Jackson Ward this summer. Nothing like standing before the Architectural Review board - they'll think of details that will escape the normal mind, and pick nits with all of it, too.
There are tax benefits for renovating in historic areas. I understand that a percentage of money spent on fixing and updating the basic house (not for additions) is creditable against your Federal tax bill, and any not used can be applied back or forward for three years (consult a tax expert for details).
The last house we did was built in 1917. It was wood frame, about 2200 square feet, two story, with original clapboard siding and standing seam metal roof. As it was redone, the plan called for a new dimentional shingle roof, and a vinyl siding to match the pattern of the clapboards. My first choice would be to have restored the siding, but it is quite labor intensive, and the vinyl looked the same in general, and it covered the lead paint, and took some less time to install. The shingles looked quite good in the end, too. The final product was a four-bedroom, bath and a half, with huge entry foyer, living room, dining room, modern kitchen, and utility/laundry room. The full front porch was repaired to near-original glory.
We rebuilt the windows, and stripped the old paint off them. We thoroughly scraped the old interior woodwork, and were able to match that which we had to replace. The inside turned out pretty well. The outside cornice was scraped thoroughly, repaired as needed, and painted.
The major structural problem had been caused by rain through a valley leak in the north side of the roof. We had to repair the stair landing, some of the roof framing system in that area, and some of the second and first floors under the leak. The stairs had sagged as well (they are open on one side), so we jacked them back to level before building the wall under them for the new downstairs powder room.
Much of the neighborhood is in transition. There is some riffraff in the area, but in many pockets, the older people who have been there for decades don't stand for much foolishness. The dope-dealing seems to occur on the blocks where most of the units went to rentals years back.
I am hopeful to find one of these jewels for myself in the next year or so.
It is nice in this case to be working with a group who is interested in maintaining the architectural integrity of the houses in the neighborhood. There are some Federal historic guidelines toward preserving the exterior appearance (the price of feeding at the government trough), but most make fairly good sense.
The neighborhood I've been working in primarily the last four years is called South Barton Heights. It is a neighborhood of 50'-wide lots and detached, mostly frame houses, built from the late 1890's to the Depression. There are a few post-war infill houses, unfortunately of a more modern style.
It has recently been designated as historic, although there is no review process as yet for any house renovations. There is a plans and colors review for renovations in some other local neighborhoods, and we had to go through one for the garage we redid in Jackson Ward this summer. Nothing like standing before the Architectural Review board - they'll think of details that will escape the normal mind, and pick nits with all of it, too.
There are tax benefits for renovating in historic areas. I understand that a percentage of money spent on fixing and updating the basic house (not for additions) is creditable against your Federal tax bill, and any not used can be applied back or forward for three years (consult a tax expert for details).
The last house we did was built in 1917. It was wood frame, about 2200 square feet, two story, with original clapboard siding and standing seam metal roof. As it was redone, the plan called for a new dimentional shingle roof, and a vinyl siding to match the pattern of the clapboards. My first choice would be to have restored the siding, but it is quite labor intensive, and the vinyl looked the same in general, and it covered the lead paint, and took some less time to install. The shingles looked quite good in the end, too. The final product was a four-bedroom, bath and a half, with huge entry foyer, living room, dining room, modern kitchen, and utility/laundry room. The full front porch was repaired to near-original glory.
We rebuilt the windows, and stripped the old paint off them. We thoroughly scraped the old interior woodwork, and were able to match that which we had to replace. The inside turned out pretty well. The outside cornice was scraped thoroughly, repaired as needed, and painted.
The major structural problem had been caused by rain through a valley leak in the north side of the roof. We had to repair the stair landing, some of the roof framing system in that area, and some of the second and first floors under the leak. The stairs had sagged as well (they are open on one side), so we jacked them back to level before building the wall under them for the new downstairs powder room.
Much of the neighborhood is in transition. There is some riffraff in the area, but in many pockets, the older people who have been there for decades don't stand for much foolishness. The dope-dealing seems to occur on the blocks where most of the units went to rentals years back.
I am hopeful to find one of these jewels for myself in the next year or so.
It is nice in this case to be working with a group who is interested in maintaining the architectural integrity of the houses in the neighborhood. There are some Federal historic guidelines toward preserving the exterior appearance (the price of feeding at the government trough), but most make fairly good sense.
wildrose70
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mbb308 said:
And besides it's a breath of fresh air...and interesting to read...I will be back often...when time permits after tomorrow...
wildrose70
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mbb308 said:
Yes I will and be back often to read what your writing...I find it very interesting and informative..but then I would expect nothing less from you!!
wildrose70
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mbb308 said:
Oh I will be looking forward to the pictures too........as Arnold said...I WILL BE BACK!!
Batch
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Psychotic old house lovers
I think that some people immediately understand the value of what one is doing, when restoring the older buildings.and they gravitate towards the honourable work that is being done. You gain almost immediate respect with your work.from the people who live in the neighborhoods. I certainly am more likely to have respect for people who do this work. When I was helping my father-in-law, paint the inside of our house...we made friends with the neighbors very quickly, it was funny also because they thought he was my husband..lololo....
My house was built in the 1970's and had been neglected for a good 20 years.so we had a great deal of work to do.I was thoroughly invested in my sweat equity, this was going to be my new home...we worked so hard, getting this place ready to live in.
Although I have not got an older house I do have a good house, close to where my children go to school, in a small town, and relatively isolated from the rest of California, this is the perfect house for this time in my life.
mbb308 said:
I think that some people immediately understand the value of what one is doing, when restoring the older buildings.and they gravitate towards the honourable work that is being done. You gain almost immediate respect with your work.from the people who live in the neighborhoods. I certainly am more likely to have respect for people who do this work. When I was helping my father-in-law, paint the inside of our house...we made friends with the neighbors very quickly, it was funny also because they thought he was my husband..lololo....
My house was built in the 1970's and had been neglected for a good 20 years.so we had a great deal of work to do.I was thoroughly invested in my sweat equity, this was going to be my new home...we worked so hard, getting this place ready to live in.
Although I have not got an older house I do have a good house, close to where my children go to school, in a small town, and relatively isolated from the rest of California, this is the perfect house for this time in my life.
mike_mike02128
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Been there, done that. I've done alot of renovations on houses. To my own and others. I have pretty much completely renovated my current home, less a few finishing touches (still in the works). I did pretty much all the work myself (except major electrical work). if you need any help and/or advise just ask. I can share what I've learned and mistakes to avoid.
mbb308
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Psychotic old house lovers
I think that most people who live in a poorer neighborhood with a lot of "deferred maintenance" are appreciative when someone comes along and improves a house or two on their block.
I find that houses built during the 50's seem to be the best built. The old ones had better materials, but some of the construction leaves a lot to be desired. The new ones are neat and modern, but the materials are such crap. The 50's, and up through the mid 60's or so, seem to have the best blend of materials and craftsmanship.
Batchoohus said:
I think that most people who live in a poorer neighborhood with a lot of "deferred maintenance" are appreciative when someone comes along and improves a house or two on their block.
I find that houses built during the 50's seem to be the best built. The old ones had better materials, but some of the construction leaves a lot to be desired. The new ones are neat and modern, but the materials are such crap. The 50's, and up through the mid 60's or so, seem to have the best blend of materials and craftsmanship.
Artemesia
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Psychotic old house lovers
I agree on both points.
The neighborhood (and block) I moved into is a hodge podge of homes in various states of repair - but it's an old neighborhood with some really great architecture and affordable prices. It's coming back - slowly - but I know that the day I closed the deal on this house, my neighbor across the street came across to meet me. She seemed so grateful to see me moving in as a home owner. There are a lot of renters on this street it seems.
mbb308 said:
I agree on both points.
The neighborhood (and block) I moved into is a hodge podge of homes in various states of repair - but it's an old neighborhood with some really great architecture and affordable prices. It's coming back - slowly - but I know that the day I closed the deal on this house, my neighbor across the street came across to meet me. She seemed so grateful to see me moving in as a home owner. There are a lot of renters on this street it seems.
mbb308
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Psychotic old house lovers
Many neighborhoods developed over a period of time seem to reflect different house styles. People tend to build what is popular for the period, rather than for the existing style. Styles also change for economic reasons, too.
It's fun to watch an area come back after a period of neglect.
Artemesia said:
Many neighborhoods developed over a period of time seem to reflect different house styles. People tend to build what is popular for the period, rather than for the existing style. Styles also change for economic reasons, too.
It's fun to watch an area come back after a period of neglect.
mbb308
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1804 Montiero Avenue
Day One of this project is slated to be mostly cloudy and offering a constant threat of rain. Since much of what we will be doing today falls under the heading of "mobilization", I suspect that the weather won't be an issue.
We'll be running an extention cord to the neighbor's to borrow electricity - I'm sure it will end up costing us something.
This one will be a lot of reframing work to get it back together.
Day One of this project is slated to be mostly cloudy and offering a constant threat of rain. Since much of what we will be doing today falls under the heading of "mobilization", I suspect that the weather won't be an issue.
We'll be running an extention cord to the neighbor's to borrow electricity - I'm sure it will end up costing us something.
This one will be a lot of reframing work to get it back together.
wildrose70
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Anxious to see how things go.....with the new job....and hope the weather cooperates....I have to go back and re-read this thread...havent had time to keep up like I should....
The house I lived in b/4 divorce is about 100 yrs old....and we re-did everything...nice woodwork which I stripped and re-did....quite a few years ago...had some older gentleman and his 2 daughters stop from Oregon....had them come in to see what it looked like....he had lived there as a small child....so it was interesting to hear him tell about the original house. and he sent me a picture of the man who built the house with dirt roads in front....it was suprising how much the house looked the same when we bought it.......we had several lovely stained glass and leaded glass windows...but what a *pane* to re-do them....but alas I was much younger then...I did a lot of refinishing in the house and some very old lovely oak furniture that some dummy had painted w/a dark varnish...the woodwork had recieved the same treatment....but what fun to see it begin to look better...truly a labor of love...
The house I lived in b/4 divorce is about 100 yrs old....and we re-did everything...nice woodwork which I stripped and re-did....quite a few years ago...had some older gentleman and his 2 daughters stop from Oregon....had them come in to see what it looked like....he had lived there as a small child....so it was interesting to hear him tell about the original house. and he sent me a picture of the man who built the house with dirt roads in front....it was suprising how much the house looked the same when we bought it.......we had several lovely stained glass and leaded glass windows...but what a *pane* to re-do them....but alas I was much younger then...I did a lot of refinishing in the house and some very old lovely oak furniture that some dummy had painted w/a dark varnish...the woodwork had recieved the same treatment....but what fun to see it begin to look better...truly a labor of love...
Arden
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My Old One
*Sneaking up next to mbb*
'Mornin, mbb!
I finally found a few pictures to start my own experience with renovation...
You start, of course, before you sign a purchase contract on the house. When you buy a home this old, (100+ years) there should be no doubt that there will be renovation or repair expenses. You just have to get a handle on how much $ will be required initially to make the house safe for human occupation. To do so, you hire a house inspector, someone not affiliated with the real estate agent that is handling either the house itself, or the seller of the house.
You'll pay about $200 - $300 for the inspection... for myself, this fee also included a radon test... You receive a detailed report about the general condition of the house. It is never perfect, but it is a good guide to use in making the final decision about buying the home. Yep, you always write into your contract that your purchase offer is "subject to" the house inspection report, and what is found. You always allow yourself an "out."
One of my worst problems was badly deteriorating asbestos all over the pipes in the basement. We have cold winter weather, so pipe insulation is a must.
Basement has about 1400 square feet, with pipes running the perimiiter. Installed in the 1920s or 1930s, the plumbing still functions.
I called an enviornmental specialty services company to do the asbestos removal. They enclosed areas of pipe, and removed the asbestos... using a suction device to send it straight out to their truck... Cost was about $900.00 here, but not dying from cancer was the most important benefit.
Here is a photo of one lovely asbestos covered pipe in my basement.
*Sneaking up next to mbb*
'Mornin, mbb!
I finally found a few pictures to start my own experience with renovation...
You start, of course, before you sign a purchase contract on the house. When you buy a home this old, (100+ years) there should be no doubt that there will be renovation or repair expenses. You just have to get a handle on how much $ will be required initially to make the house safe for human occupation. To do so, you hire a house inspector, someone not affiliated with the real estate agent that is handling either the house itself, or the seller of the house.
You'll pay about $200 - $300 for the inspection... for myself, this fee also included a radon test... You receive a detailed report about the general condition of the house. It is never perfect, but it is a good guide to use in making the final decision about buying the home. Yep, you always write into your contract that your purchase offer is "subject to" the house inspection report, and what is found. You always allow yourself an "out."
One of my worst problems was badly deteriorating asbestos all over the pipes in the basement. We have cold winter weather, so pipe insulation is a must.
Basement has about 1400 square feet, with pipes running the perimiiter. Installed in the 1920s or 1930s, the plumbing still functions.
I called an enviornmental specialty services company to do the asbestos removal. They enclosed areas of pipe, and removed the asbestos... using a suction device to send it straight out to their truck... Cost was about $900.00 here, but not dying from cancer was the most important benefit.
Here is a photo of one lovely asbestos covered pipe in my basement.
Arden
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Here is a photo of the house itself. Built in 1874, the exterior is double thick locally made sand brick, the interior walls are 1 1/2" thick horsehair plaster over lathe.
I toyed with the picture a bit, basically for privacy reasons. My neighbors shouldn't recognize it if they visit here.
My house, Halloween night, 2001.
I toyed with the picture a bit, basically for privacy reasons. My neighbors shouldn't recognize it if they visit here.
My house, Halloween night, 2001.
wildrose70
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Arden said:Here is a photo of the house itself. Built in 1874, the exterior is double thick locally made sand brick, the interior walls are 1 1/2" thick horsehair plaster over lathe.
I toyed with the picture a bit, basically for privacy reasons. My neighbors shouldn't recognize it if they visit here.
My house, Halloween night, 2001.
Lol doubt if anyone wld recognize it....I dont worry about too many of my friends or family being on Lit!!!
Wow that is an old house....what fun....
Arden
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wildrose70 said:
Lol doubt if anyone wld recognize it....I dont worry about too many of my friends or family being on Lit!!!
Wow that is an old house....what fun....
At about the halfway mark in the restoration, I can honestly say it is a love/ hate relationship. Most of the hate going to contractors...
wildrose70
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Arden said:
At about the halfway mark in the restoration, I can honestly say it is a love/ hate relationship. Most of the hate going to contractors...
I hear you....fortunately we did most of the stuff ourselves....but I always said it was a blood/sweat/and tears on going makeover for all the years I lived there....36... then I got divorced and moved out.....hated to leave the house more than the ex!!!
but we have a good relationship so I go over a lot....and usually end up cleaning!!!!
mbb308
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Re: My Old One
Shucks, Darlin', you don't have to sneak. You can hold your head up quite high around here, because you're among friends.
Thanks for the pictures, too. My photographer has scheduled the "before" pictures session for Saturday, which will wind up being a busy day (my good friend Amy is getting married - and it's the anniversarity of my second [failed] marraige, too).
The best way to find a contractor is by word of mouth. That's still not perfect, but you have a fighting chance of having someone tell you the truth about the tradesperson in question.
Your advise on home inspectors was right on time, and very well put. I couldn't have said better myself. Of course, all bets are off on the "as is" sale, which is best left to the pro, or the very experienced renovator.
As soon as I can get some scanning done on the last job, I'll put up a few of those. We're all really proud of that one.
Arden said:
Shucks, Darlin', you don't have to sneak. You can hold your head up quite high around here, because you're among friends.
Thanks for the pictures, too. My photographer has scheduled the "before" pictures session for Saturday, which will wind up being a busy day (my good friend Amy is getting married - and it's the anniversarity of my second [failed] marraige, too).
The best way to find a contractor is by word of mouth. That's still not perfect, but you have a fighting chance of having someone tell you the truth about the tradesperson in question.
Your advise on home inspectors was right on time, and very well put. I couldn't have said better myself. Of course, all bets are off on the "as is" sale, which is best left to the pro, or the very experienced renovator.
As soon as I can get some scanning done on the last job, I'll put up a few of those. We're all really proud of that one.
