Question..................

[BitterIchor]

Labels suck because they tend to pigeonhole and be too strict and/or too undefinable. I know a butch woman who has a strong masculine side but is still female, and she has had sexual encounters with just about everybody (trans included). What is she? She's not straight, hell no. But she's not a dyke either - she has had sexual encounters with straight guys. She's queer, but further labeling is difficult. And what about Susie Bright? Did she not get to be a lesbian because she was sleeping with a guy? (I think they're married now, not sure how she self-identifies, but this was before.)

Life is too complex for labels. People are too complex for labels. Sexuality and identity are fluid for many people.

I don't agree.

That butch woman you mentioned is most likely bisexual, as is whoever that Susie Bright is too. They can call themselves whatever they want, and they do have to call themselves SOMETHING, even if it's just "human". Unless they think they're too complex for that label as well. Experiences doesn't make anyone anything though, as I said. It's how you feel about experiences that make a difference. Are these two women attracted to both sexes? If so, they're bisexual, no matter what sexes they used or are now sleeping with. To me, it really is that simple.

You have to label yourself somehow, the question is just how specific you are in that labelling.

 

[Etoile]

I don't agree.

That butch woman you mentioned is most likely bisexual, as is whoever that Susie Bright is too. They can call themselves whatever they want, and they do have to call themselves SOMETHING, even if it's just "human". Unless they think they're too complex for that label as well. Experiences doesn't make anyone anything though, as I said. It's how you feel about experiences that make a difference. Are these two women attracted to both sexes? If so, they're bisexual, no matter what sexes they used or are now sleeping with. To me, it really is that simple.

You have to label yourself somehow, the question is just how specific you are in that labelling.

That's fine, I can handle you not agreeing with me. She knows how she labels herself, I know how I label myself, and you know how you label yourself. I don't think it's right to say "SHE'S BISEXUAL" as if you are right and she is wrong about how she labels herself, but that's okay. As for Susie Bright, toss her name into Amazon.com - she's a quite-well-known lesbian writer. (I also happen to not believe in a binary gender system - and my butch friend doesn't either - hence the not self-labeling as bisexual.)

 

[dizzylia]

Maybe the difference is in who applies the labels. Self vs. Other.

 

[BitterIchor]

That's fine, I can handle you not agreeing with me. She knows how she labels herself, I know how I label myself, and you know how you label yourself. I don't think it's right to say "SHE'S BISEXUAL" as if you are right and she is wrong about how she labels herself, but that's okay. As for Susie Bright, toss her name into Amazon.com - she's a quite-well-known lesbian writer. (I also happen to not believe in a binary gender system - and my butch friend doesn't either - hence the not self-labeling as bisexual.)

You're right, I didn't mean to override her own self-knowledge or anything. I meant that with what information you provided, bisexual is the conclusion I would draw according to my own view of the world.

There are only two physical genders, so any offshoots of those two genders are encompassed by the term "bisexual". At least in my opinion.

 

[revolution724]

There are only two physical genders, so any offshoots of those two genders are encompassed by the term "bisexual". At least in my opinion.

Mmm... I think there are more intersexed or otherwise genderqueer people than you think who would disagree vehemently with this sentiment. What do you call the individual whose penis was removed at birth because it didn't seem to the medical professionals on hand to go with hir vagina?

 

[BitterIchor]

Mmm... I think there are more intersexed or otherwise genderqueer people than you think who would disagree vehemently with this sentiment. What do you call the individual whose penis was removed at birth because it didn't seem to the medical professionals on hand to go with hir vagina?

I have no doubt very many people disagree with many of my opinions.

As for genders, if a person has them both, none of them or some sort of combination of the two, that doesn't really matter. There's still only two kinds.

 

[Etoile]

The Google results for "the third sex" are interesting, informative, and entertaining. It has been used for many decades to refer to both sexual orientation and gender presentation. The GLBTQ Encyclopedia entry for Third Sex is especially interesting.

 

[BitterIchor]

The Google results for "the third sex" are interesting, informative, and entertaining. It has been used for many decades to refer to both sexual orientation and gender presentation. The GLBTQ Encyclopedia entry for Third Sex is especially interesting.

I've heard of these theories. It's nothing that changes or influences my view of things.

 

[Etoile]

I've heard of these theories. It's nothing that changes or influences my view of things.

*chuckle*
I wasn't trying to change or influence your view. I was providing information I thought you and others might find interesting; I found it interesting and figured I'd share. What you choose to do with the information is entirely up to you.

 

[BitterIchor]

*chuckle*
I wasn't trying to change or influence your view. I was providing information I thought you and others might find interesting; I found it interesting and figured I'd share. What you choose to do with the information is entirely up to you.

Oh come on, of course you were trying to influence my opinions on the subject. Why else would you post that here and now? My post wasn't an accusation though, this is a discussion forum, influencing one anothers opinions is what we do here. I was just stating a fact.

 

[Etoile]

Oh come on, of course you were trying to influence my opinions on the subject. Why else would you post that here and now? My post wasn't an accusation though, this is a discussion forum, influencing one anothers opinions is what we do here. I was just stating a fact.

My posts on this board are rarely meant to influence. I don't typically get into arguments anywhere online. I'm not a flamer. My purpose is education, and many people on this board can vouch for that. If, in learning about other perspectives, you change your mind, that is entirely up to you.

 

[CuriousNiceGuy]

I vouch for Etoile!!
She always tends to just throw links in threads, and most times there are pretty good subjects..
One thing I don't understand is how she can be so willful..
I would be bored to even Google-search...

 

[BitterIchor]

My posts on this board are rarely meant to influence. I don't typically get into arguments anywhere online. I'm not a flamer. My purpose is education, and many people on this board can vouch for that. If, in learning about other perspectives, you change your mind, that is entirely up to you.

Oh, whatever.