Rest In Peace Mr. Heston.

Easy, it is which constitutional right is upheld, not the upholding which disregards human life. He was a gun owner lobbyist 1000%...guns in the hands of irresponsible people result in the deaths of men, women and children, and IMO, unless you are on a ranch/cattle station (in Oz lingo), remote farm where livestock (or humans) may have their life threatened by wildlife, there is no logical reason for gun ownership, especially in a country whose gun related death stats demonstrate just how ridiculous an ideal it is. Sheesh, the biggest cause of death for pregnant women in the US is from gunshot....and that is reasonable and acceptable and proof gun ownership is OK? Numbers of gun related deaths have dropped significantly since the government in Oz brought in strict gun ownership laws and gave an amnesty for all illegal and without exemption (under the new law) guns to be handed in following the Port Arthur massacre. It was one of the few good decisions they made while in power.

Catalina:catroar:

Cat, first off; i am not denying you your personal opinion.

Secondly, God rest your soul Mr. Heston; because you were a good man in all ways. My prayers for the family in their time of sorrow.

But as to the highlighted words, here in the USA; people that are responsible citizens and own guns, have to go thru getting a background check, getting the guns licensed, and showing appropriate safety training and knowledge to have them.

It is the irresponsible people, aka drug runners, gang members, low life scum, etc...that get theirs illegally.

As to your words of "no logical reason for gun ownership"; what about the right to protect ourselves from stalkers that will not quit; even with a restraint put against them by the law?

If i did not have the right to bear arms; not only myself, but my children would be dead now.

Five years ago, i had to have a restraining order issued because of a guy that didnt want to leave me alone. The restraining order didn't mean "jack" to him. He didn't care. He still kept coming around, calling me (after numerous number changes) and following me around when i went to town.

So i asked the sheriff what could be done to protect myself and my family. He said "Go through firearms training and licensing and get yourself a gun. But make sure to keep it safely contained away from your children. And if need be, load it up and shoot towards the sky first as warning; and if the guy doesnt take the warning, shoot towards his knee and take him down."

i am a very responsible person, and went through all training and licensing i need to; and purchased my .45 and a safety lock box for it. i keep it well out of range of my childrens reach and in an enclosed area that is locked to them.

About a year after purchasing it, with the man still causing problems; he decided to "up the scare" a little more. He started coming around after dark, jiggling door handles, and scraping at the windows. i talked to the sheriff, who went and tried to contact the guy; with no success.

Someone told the guy that the sheriff had been looking for him, and i guess the guy realized it was about him in violation of the restraining order; because a couple nights later, he was in my front yard screaming profanity at me.

If it hadnt have been for me owning that gun, my children and i would be dead now.

i called the sheriff immediately and even held the phone to the window, so they could hear the guy yelling at me. After a few seconds of letting them hear what he was saying, i was running to my safety area and getting my gun down and loaded; then putting my children in the bathroom, and telling them "Dont come out, no matter what; unless me or "Tom" (our local sheriff) identifies himself to you." Then closing them in and going back out front. All the while with me still being online with the law.

But, locally; it would take the county sheriff 5 to 10 minutes to get to my place. By that time, my children would have been dead or missing, and i would have been laying in a pool of my own blood. Because when he saw me peek out the window to see if he was still around, he went berserk! He starting running towards the house.

Instinct kicked in, and i did what i had been trained to do. Protect myself and my family. i quickly stood at the door, and shot a round into the sky; yelling "Stop now, or i will shoot you". He didnt stop, so i immediately instinctually shot him in the lower region. He went down fast, because i had gotten the lower thigh right above the knee.

But it STOPPED him. He now sits in prison, doing a 20 year term; for what he put my family and i through. And my children and i are still alive!

That is self preservation, and the reason i 100% back the 2nd Amendment of the United States of America.

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
 
I don't want to trivialize any gun ownership success stories, because, well, thats not my goal.

But the 2nd amendments right to bear arms was originally intended for a time when there was a very real risk that the populace would have to rise up and overthrow a tyrannical government.

For the people, by the people, based on the French Revolution and its resulting government. (I like history, what can I say)

But if anyone tried to claim that our government was infringing our right and we had the right to overthrow them now they would be thrown in jail. So having a gun isn't really helpful there, and since thats why a right to bear arms was originally thought necessary...

I guess i just think that for the most part more harm than good comes from this particular outdated right.

I don't like the idea of messing around too much with the constitution, but there has to be more we can do to cut down on gun-related deaths.

But, you know, just my opinion.
 
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The change in our culture and what we allow as acceptable behavior is why we have so much violence today. Gun control isn't going to change that. The 3rd graders that were planning to kill the teacher were going to do her in with a glass paperweight to the head. No gun needed.

The day I saw a bumper sticker that read "my kid can beat up your honor student", I knew we were screwed.
 
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I did actually catch the significance of the statement and remember it on the news.. but still felt the comment was not a good one. I am sorry for that.

I agree with much said here... some rights we have are antiquated... hell, i know a few people who will say that free speech should be abolished because it is not 100% true (no i am not one of them).

I am sorry to see such a debate coming from something such as this. Personally i am a supporter of gun ownership but my views on who should have them and how they should be attained etc are just a bit unrealistic
 
Yes, I caught the play on words, but I personally felt like mocking a dead man for something that was only one aspect of his character and beliefs, whether you believe in them or not, was in poor taste.

Then again, I'm one of a few who thought it was poor taste to cheer when Hussein was executed. Yes, the man was a monster. But it was still a life lost from the earth.

This debate of gun ownership will probably be going on long after my ashes have been reabsorbed into the earth. I know that the reason it was included into the Constitution differs from the reason it's still there, however, I still believe it's applicable. Yes, I believe that we need better screening, stricter methods, but I have the innate right to protect myself. And if I want to own a gun to do so, I should be able to do so, responsibly.
 
Firstly, even if I do not agree with his right wing stance on things, RIP Mr Heston. You were a brilliant actor.

I think what annoyed people about his NRA involvement was the fact that he had no respect for people in columbine and had a rally there very soon after the shooting in the school. That to me is rubbing peoples faces in it. I can understand the argument for the right of ownership etc, even though I disagree with it, but what he did was something I thought was wrong, and disrespectful so I can agree with those comments too. All I can say is I am glad the UK doesn't have any constitutional rights for owning firearms as I do disagree with it. I know looking after number one is important, but I think more effort should be put into getting authorities to have better methods of control and protection, rather than encouraging the self defense side with that right..

One thing I found weird tho, or maybe the info is Michael Moore talking rubbish, but did the NRA start the same day that the ku-clux-klan became a lot less active. I cant remember the exact points in the doc, but i think he was trying to make a point that they have a lot more in common than people think.

ETA... Ok, I found the cartoon on youtube, and yes I know it is a satirical cartoon, but the point is that the NRA was formed the same year the klan became an illegal terrorist organisation, but your guess is as good as mine on how accurate that is.
 
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Well, I'm not here for the gun control debate, nor the Alzheimer's debate, but I wanted to say that my research suggests that people's sense of humor improves significantly after they're dead, and I suspect, just suspect, he'd find the initial comment that started all this kinda funny. Nothing more. Sorta like I did.

I really only know about Heston as an actor, and in that pursuit he was excellent. Therefore, I offer him, with all due respect, this additional punchline. I hope to have similar punchlines offered at my own death.

His last words were, "Damn dirty apes!"

respectfully,
bijou
 
Well, I'm not here for the gun control debate, nor the Alzheimer's debate, but I wanted to say that my research suggests that people's sense of humor improves significantly after they're dead, and I suspect, just suspect, he'd find the initial comment that started all this kinda funny. Nothing more. Sorta like I did.

I really only know about Heston as an actor, and in that pursuit he was excellent. Therefore, I offer him, with all due respect, this additional punchline. I hope to have similar punchlines offered at my own death.

His last words were, "Damn dirty apes!"

respectfully,
bijou

Nice post :)
 
Firstly, even if I do not agree with his right wing stance on things, RIP Mr Heston. You were a brilliant actor.

I think what annoyed people about his NRA involvement was the fact that he had no respect for people in columbine and had a rally there very soon after the shooting in the school. That to me is rubbing peoples faces in it. I can understand the argument for the right of ownership etc, even though I disagree with it, but what he did was something I thought was wrong, and disrespectful so I can agree with those comments too. All I can say is I am glad the UK doesn't have any constitutional rights for owning firearms as I do disagree with it. I know looking after number one is important, but I think more effort should be put into getting authorities to have better methods of control and protection, rather than encouraging the self defense side with that right..

One thing I found weird tho, or maybe the info is Michael Moore talking rubbish, but did the NRA start the same day that the ku-clux-klan became a lot less active. I cant remember the exact points in the doc, but i think he was trying to make a point that they have a lot more in common than people think.


Did Michael Moore actually say that?! What a load of crap. The KKK is less active because they are now pretty much irrelevant. Besides, the Klan was a Southern organization, the NRA was started in New York.
 
Well, I'm not here for the gun control debate, nor the Alzheimer's debate, but I wanted to say that my research suggests that people's sense of humor improves significantly after they're dead, and I suspect, just suspect, he'd find the initial comment that started all this kinda funny. Nothing more. Sorta like I did.

I really only know about Heston as an actor, and in that pursuit he was excellent. Therefore, I offer him, with all due respect, this additional punchline. I hope to have similar punchlines offered at my own death.

His last words were, "Damn dirty apes!"

respectfully,
bijou

Heh :) That made me smile.
 
I own a pistol, have extensive firearms training both in and out of military service. To this day I've never had to use it in self defense but I do know people that have had to use firearms in self defense.
 
Did Michael Moore actually say that?! What a load of crap. The KKK is less active because they are now pretty much irrelevant. Besides, the Klan was a Southern organization, the NRA was started in New York.

He just used a video to highlight one was made illegal in 1871 and the NRA was started the same year....

That isnt crap, thats fact. What could be crap is that he hinted at a freaky coincidence between the two because of the date, but you saying the NRA was started in NY makes that less likely, thats why I asked.
 
http://www.nra.org/aboutus.aspx

The NRA has nothing in common with the KKK.

That's like saying Hillary and the Shah of Iran have something in common because they were both born on Oct 26. Other than their birthday. Well, he probably didn't suck cock either.
 
He just used a video to highlight one was made illegal in 1871 and the NRA was started the same year....

That isnt crap, thats fact. What could be crap is that he hinted at a freaky coincidence between the two because of the date, but you saying the NRA was started in NY makes that less likely, thats why I asked.


What I was referring to as crap was the notion that the KKK was less active in 1871. It was plenty active then. BTW, the Klan was not then nor is it now illegal. Some of their activities are illegal but their very existence is not. That, ironically, would be unconstitutional.
 
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Charlton Heston, May 27, 1961, picketing a whites-only restaurant in Oklahoma City:

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa78/johnmohegan/HestonOklahomaCity1961.jpg



Charlton Heston, August 28, 1963, with Sidney Poitier and Harry Belafonte at the Civil Rights March in Washington, D.C.:

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa78/johnmohegan/PoitierBelafonteHestonCivilRightsMa.jpg




From today's news in LA:

"Heston always said that he backed civil rights before it was fashionable in Hollywood," said Earl Ofari Hutchinson. “He did and we honor him for his monumental contributions to the civil rights movement.” A tribute, a moment of silence, was held at the corner of Martin Luther King Blvd. and Crenshaw Blvd. in Los Angeles Sunday morning.
 
That was the 1960's. Apparently his attitude about blacks changed in later years
 
Yeah disrespect.

I'm sorry, but to announce that so soon after Columbine in the same area where that tragedy took place was the height of disrespect to the people that that lived through that it.
The Columbine massacre took place on April 20, 1999.

Charlton Heston's comments in Denver that year did *not* include the cold, dead hands line. That defiant remark (paraphrasing an NRA bumper sticker) was first shouted by Heston at the NRA convention on May 20, 2000. The NYT obituary confirms this to be true.

In making Bowling for Columbine in 2002, Michael Moore ran the 2000 clip of Heston while discussing the 1999 event in his film, making it seem as if Heston shouted the cold, dead hands line in Denver - even though he did not.
 
/jack/

have i mentioned lately that you have fabulous hair?

/end jack/

as did Charlton Heston.

Charlton Heston doesn't look like God. God looks like Charlton Heston.

I will cease to poke the bear now.
peace,
bj

/jack/

Why no, you haven't! Feel free to mention it whenever the mood strikes you! :D

/end jack/

And yes, agreed, his hair in that movie was truly a site to behold.
 
In one of many online notices and blogs regarding the passing of Charlton Heston, I came across a link to this tribute by Richard Dreyfuss (yes, the Jaws and Goodbye Girl and Close Encounters guy). It was written about five years ago, when Heston first was reported to be suffering from Alzheimer's disease.

Elsewhere I read what I thought was a very good summation of Heston. It said that he was not a very good actor, but he was a great one. That is, he was best at roles that were just too big for anyone else.
 
In one of many online notices and blogs regarding the passing of Charlton Heston, I came across a link to this tribute by Richard Dreyfuss (yes, the Jaws and Goodbye Girl and Close Encounters guy). It was written about five years ago, when Heston first was reported to be suffering from Alzheimer's disease.

Elsewhere I read what I thought was a very good summation of Heston. It said that he was not a very good actor, but he was a great one. That is, he was best at roles that were just too big for anyone else.

Richard Dreyfuss:It has become fashionable to characterize his politics; almost as if his politics were a separate thing, like Diana's popularity. People are either defensive or patronizing (if not contemptuous). I can only say I wish all the liberals and all the conservatives I knew had the class and forbearance he has. Would I be as patient or serene when so many had showed me such contempt, or tried to make me feel stupid or small? I doubt it, truly I do. This is dignity, simply and completely. A much more important quality than political passion at the end of the day, and far more lacking, don't you think?

......
 
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