Rest In Peace Mr. Heston.

[00Syd]

Shit, maybe I just see death as someone dying, nothing more and nothing less, but if I can talk about my opinions of someone when they are alive, then I can certainty talk about my opinions of them when they are dead. Maybe I just feel that way because I did not in anyway have any contact or relation with Mr. Heston, but him and his family would never hear what I thought of him when he was alive and they are certainly not going to hear what I think of him now that he's dead, so no need to worry that they are going to be hurt or offended. Maybe I would feel the need to be respectful if I respected Mr. Heston in life, but I didn't, and I still don't respect him, death makes no difference.

I don't think death is such a sacred thing that its deserving of my respect in itself, and death isn't enough to make me respect anybody. Sorry.

 

[HB1965]

Put down the violin, Horny Babe. This attempt to avoid a productive exchange is not a tactic that I respect.

If I disagree with you, I disagree with you, period. Nothing personal about it.

It's not a tactic nor am I playing a damn violin. It's an observation of your behavior. It's what you've done from the beginning of any exchange that we have had. You only enter into exchanges with me when you disagree with me . There are only certain conclusions I can draw from that.

I understood the points you made in post #69.

I disagree with the characterizations of Heston's speech that you made in post #53, in which you implicitly aligned him with David Duke, and in post #62, in which you (inaccurately) wrote: "He belittles the Holocaust. ... He also speaks against the gay pride movement."

I didn't implicitly align him with David Duke. I simply point out that the speech was supported by David Duke. It was a statement on the content of the speech.

As for what I said otherwise what I said was not inaccurate.

I found this comment:

I remember when European Jews feared to admit their faith. The Nazis forced them to wear six-pointed yellow stars sewn on their chests as identity badges. It worked. So—what color star will they pin on our coats? How will the self-styled elite tag us? There may not be a Gestapo officer on every street corner yet, but the influence on our culture is just as pervasive.

as demeaning to those who survived the holocaust as though somehow saying that what said about white people is equivalent to the terror that the Jews were put under. The Jews were rounded up and murdered by a totalitarian government for their beliefs. In the case of white conservatives they are criticized in the press, but our government doesn't make them fear for their lives nor do they hold an ideology that would threat them.

I also found this comment:

But on the other hand, I find my blood pressure rising when Clinton's cultural shock troops participate in homosexual-rights fund-raisers but boycott gun-rights fund-raisers... and then claim it's time to place homosexual men in tents with Boy Scouts, and suggest that sperm donor babies born into lesbian relationships are somehow better served and more loved.

Such demands have nothing to do with equality. They're about the currency of cultural war—money and votes—and the Clinton camp will let anyone in the tent if there's a donkey on his hat, or a check in the mail or some yen in the fortune cookie.

as speaking out against the gay pride movement. In that he TOTALLY misses the point of what those movements are about. Like any conservative he saw these things as a threat and emphasizes and is critically of attempts to make people see that homosexual families can be as good for a child as a heterosexual ones.

 

[HB1965]

I don't think death is such a sacred thing that its deserving of my respect in itself, and death isn't enough to make me respect anybody. Sorry.

No it isn't a sacred thing. It is merely a transition that we make. Mr. Heston is still alive and well somewhere out there in the universe and the things that troubled him in life are no longer a concern to him.

 

[intothewoods]

Shit, maybe I just see death as someone dying, nothing more and nothing less, but if I can talk about my opinions of someone when they are alive, then I can certainty talk about my opinions of them when they are dead. Maybe I just feel that way because I did not in anyway have any contact or relation with Mr. Heston, but him and his family would never hear what I thought of him when he was alive and they are certainly not going to hear what I think of him now that he's dead, so no need to worry that they are going to be hurt or offended. Maybe I would feel the need to be respectful if I respected Mr. Heston in life, but I didn't, and I still don't respect him, death makes no difference.

I don't think death is such a sacred thing that its deserving of my respect in itself, and death isn't enough to make me respect anybody. Sorry.

I'm not jumping on HB or anyone else who does this, I just thought I'd pipe up as someone who was raised with the idea of a mourning period. I'm not saying your point of view isn't valid at all. I'm not a fan of Heston's, but it's just one of those rules I was raise with.

 

[EmpressFi]

No it isn't a sacred thing. It is merely a transition that we make. Mr. Heston is still alive and well somewhere out there in the universe and the things that troubled him in life are no longer a concern to him.

To you

To YOU it's not a sacred thing.

To some of us, it is.

Or am I not allowed to have that opinion either.

 

[JMohegan]

HornyBabe, if you're gonna take on everyone who makes inappropriate Nazi analogies, you'll be busy blasting people for a long, long time. Heston was not intentionally belittling the Holocaust, and you know it. So your shot in post 62 was needlessly inflammatory and wide of the mark.

As for Heston's comments about gays, I'm not at all surprised that you failed to quote the first part of his text on that subject. But since you didn't, I will.

"The gay and lesbian movement is another good example. Many homosexuals are hugely talented artists and executives... also dear friends. I don't despise their lifestyle, though I don't share it. As long as gay and lesbian Americans are as productive, law-abiding and private as the rest of us, I think America owes them absolute tolerance. It's the right thing to do."

His view on the essence of tolerance clearly differs from yours, and mine, too. But that first paragraph places Heston much more toward the center of the spectrum than, say, Mike Huckabee.

More broadly, by taking his comments out of context you are missing his overall point, which is: The Bill of Rights applies (or should apply) to everyone, not just those whose agenda the Left wing wants to push. That's the point of his comment about his "blood pressure rising when Clinton's cultural shock troops participate in homosexual-rights fund-raisers but boycott gun-rights fund-raisers."

 

[intothewoods]

I remember when European Jews feared to admit their faith. The Nazis forced them to wear six-pointed yellow stars sewn on their chests as identity badges. It worked. So—what color star will they pin on our coats? How will the self-styled elite tag us? There may not be a Gestapo officer on every street corner yet, but the influence on our culture is just as pervasive.

Although I find it extreme to equate political correctness with the Nazis, I'm not offended by this as a Jew. German Jews did want to assimilate! And Hitler did make them wear six-pointed yellow stars. I don't think people in this day and age appreciate the ordinary evil of the Nazis. Germany prior to Hitler was one of the most democratic countries in existence.

I disagree strongly with his comments about gay rights, and I can't stand when gay rights are equated with special privileges. But there are people who believe homosexuality is wrong and a sin. I disagree with that strongly, but they do have the right to that belief.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I wanted to post something on this but have been afraid to. I don't want to get into an argument with anyone.

There are some of us here who have to deal with death, everyday. Many have lost children, spouses and parents on this board. That kind of pain is a daily ache. Those people deserve compassion and sensitivity.

To some of us, death, anyone's death, is a very sacred thing.

 

[HB1965]

To you

To YOU it's not a sacred thing.

To some of us, it is.

Or am I not allowed to have that opinion either.

I never said that you weren't allowed an opinion. I just resent the implication that I have no concern for those that have passed on because I do. You immediately jumped on me without asking why I said what I did. You immediately chose to see me as some bad disrespectful person because you admired this person. The fact remains that this man is a celebrity who lived his life out in the open for good or bad. I also have a right to say what I feel about him, and to be jumped on the way I was not the way that I would have handled it.

I'm sorry I offended you FI. I have a great deal of respect for you. I am not interested in purposely hurting your feelings.

 

[intothewoods]

I wanted to post something on this but have been afraid to. I don't want to get into an argument with anyone.

There are some of us here who have to deal with death, everyday. Many have lost children, spouses and parents on this board. That kind of pain is a daily ache. Those people deserve compassion and sensitivity.

To some of us, death, anyone's death, is a very sacred thing.

Thank you, ADR. I see this issue the way you do, I think. I get that others don't see death in that same way. For some, it's just a part of life, and nothing more. But I do follow the point of view that death, like life, is sacred.

 

[HB1965]

HornyBabe, if you're gonna take on everyone who makes inappropriate Nazi analogies, you'll be busy blasting people for a long, long time. Heston was not intentionally belittling the Holocaust, and you know it. So your shot in post 62 was needlessly inflammatory and wide of the mark.

No it wasn't. I stand by that. What he said was demeaning to those that survived the holocaust. What is done to conservatives in this country is not the same is as what was done to the Jews in Nazi Germany. Whether he meant to demean them or not is immaterial. What he said did.

As for Heston's comments about gays, I'm not at all surprised that you failed to quote the first part of his text on that subject. But since you didn't, I will.

"The gay and lesbian movement is another good example. Many homosexuals are hugely talented artists and executives... also dear friends. I don't despise their lifestyle, though I don't share it. As long as gay and lesbian Americans are as productive, law-abiding and private as the rest of us, I think America owes them absolute tolerance. It's the right thing to do."

His view on the essence of tolerance clearly differs from yours, and mine, too. But that first paragraph places Heston much more toward the center of the spectrum than, say, Mike Huckabee.

More broadly, by taking his comments out of context you are missing his overall point, which is: The Bill of Rights applies (or should apply) to everyone, not just those whose agenda the Left wing wants to push. That's the point of his comment about his "blood pressure rising when Clinton's cultural shock troops participate in homosexual-rights fund-raisers but boycott gun-rights fund-raisers."

I didn't quote the first part of the comment for a reason, it's not the point that he was making, and YOU know that. What he said in the second half was more to his point.

And no he misses the point on the movements. We all know what the bill of rights says but these things are NOT always practiced in reality which is why these movements exists. Clinton promoted those issues certainly for a political agenda, but to couch them all in terms of Clinton's agenda as he as done demeans the reasons these movements exist.

 

[SubKekiLee]

I wanted to post something on this but have been afraid to. I don't want to get into an argument with anyone.

There are some of us here who have to deal with death, everyday. Many have lost children, spouses and parents on this board. That kind of pain is a daily ache. Those people deserve compassion and sensitivity.

To some of us, death, anyone's death, is a very sacred thing.

Thank you.....=0) words spoken are not truer....

 

[WriterDom]

I think gays deserve all the protection under the law as a married couple. With a civil union. Not a marriage. If they find a member of the clergy who is willing to "marry" them in a church, that's fine. But something that can and is done daily at city hall shouldn't be imposed on a church.

 

[JMohegan]

You immediately chose to see me as some bad disrespectful person because you admired this person.

You sure are fond of inventing reasons for other people's posts, HornyBabe.

Fi is an Obama supporter. Somehow I doubt she soaked up Heston's every word as Gospel. She has given you her reasons for objecting to your comments on this thread. Not politics, but respect for the dead.

 

[HB1965]

I wanted to post something on this but have been afraid to. I don't want to get into an argument with anyone.

There are some of us here who have to deal with death, everyday. Many have lost children, spouses and parents on this board. That kind of pain is a daily ache. Those people deserve compassion and sensitivity.

To some of us, death, anyone's death, is a very sacred thing.

Thank you, ADR. I see this issue the way you do, I think. I get that others don't see death in that same way. For some, it's just a part of life, and nothing more. But I do follow the point of view that death, like life, is sacred.

Ladies. I'm sorry if I offended your sensibilities. How I see death is simply another transition that we have in the course of our soul's existense.

ADR I miss those people that have passed on in my life but in my way I feel their presence on a daily basis. I have learned to take comfort in knowing that were they are they are not worried about the things that we worry about here in life.

I have no disrespect from anyone that has gone on before, but I feel free to make comments on how I saw Mr. Heston because I do believe that he has only moved to another state of being. What I said was not to tromp on anyone's beliefs. Only to make a point about what I saw as his failure here on Earth to convince me that he was not as his remarks portrayed him.

 

[HB1965]

You sure are fond of inventing reasons for other people's posts, HornyBabe.

Fi is an Obama supporter. Somehow I doubt she soaked up Heston's every word as Gospel. She has given you her reasons for objecting to your comments on this thread. Not politics, but respect for the dead.

What I said JM had nothing what so ever to do with politics. It had to do with her desire to respect Mr. Heston because he has passed.

And you Mr. Mohegan aren't helping your case that you say it's not that you don't like me by your first comment in your post.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Ladies. I'm sorry if I offended your sensibilities. How I see death is simply another transition that we have in the course of our soul's existense.

ADR I miss those people that have passed on in my life but in my way I feel there presence on a daily basis. I have learned to take comfort in knowing that were they are they are not worried about the things that we worry about here in life.

I have no disrespect from anyone that has gone on before, but I feel free to make comments on how I saw Mr. Heston because I do believe that he has only moved to another state of being. What I said was not to tromp on anyone's beliefs. Only to make a point about what I saw as his failure here on Earth to convince me that he was not as his remarks portrayed him.

You're entitled to find in your heart a way to invision death and an after-life just like everyone else is. And how you do that is your business. I'm not taking issue with your beliefs or how you handle the death of a loved one in your daily life.

I take issue with the cavalier attitude I've seen in this thread regarding death, period.

When you're looking down a road that the doctors told you, 2 years ago, would end in less than 15 years, death suddenly garners a great deal of respect from me. And that's when I take it personally.

There are many here at Lit who've had much harsher news than mine... much heavier burdens than mine. I wish we could have more compassion and show more tolerance for each other than I'm seeing lately. I wish there was more sensitivity for what others are having to deal with on a daily basis.

Uh oh... I'm about to break out in Imagine, any minute, now...

Anyway, I hope that the sum of a life (mine, in this case) is not like what I've seen in this thread.

 

[HB1965]

I wish we could have more compassion and show more tolerance for each other than I'm seeing lately. I wish there was more sensitivity for what others are having to deal with on a daily basis.

On this point I will definitely agree.

 

[JMohegan]

What I said JM had nothing what so ever to do with politics. It had to do with her desire to respect Mr. Heston because he has passed.

Bull. Your comment to Fi was: "You immediately chose to see me as some bad disrespectful person because you admired this person."

And you Mr. Mohegan aren't helping your case that you say it's not that you don't like me by your first comment in your post.

At this point, after following your remarks on this thread, I'd say that I dislike your penchant for inventing motives for other people's posts, and also your tendency to whine about allegedly being unfairly treated when disagreed with, as well as your apparent refusal to acknowledge even the slightest value or legitimacy in any portion of an opponent's point of view.

The entirety of "you", however, I neither like nor dislike. The entirety of "you", I simply do not know.

 

[Etoile]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a4/somerandomcrap/imagemacros/tellmewhenitsoverwu1.jpg

 

[A Desert Rose]

I'm sorry Etoile, have I offended you? It was not my intent to offend anyone with my opinions.

 

[Etoile]

I'm sorry Etoile, have I offended you? It was not my intent to offend anyone with my opinions.

It's not anyone in particular.

I find this whole crazy debate disrespectful. The original comment that sparked this may or may not have been funny. It may or may not have been in good taste. Fighting about it, however, is NOT funny and IS in bad taste.

JMHO.

 

[JMohegan]

For some, it's just a part of life, and nothing more. But I do follow the point of view that death, like life, is sacred.

Everyone's views on this issue are deeply personal, and equally valid. What I write here is not intended to rebut or diminish the views of others; I am simply presenting my own.

If I were Charlton Heston, I would appreciate a healthy and heated debate on these issues, even while I was sequestered with Alzheimer's, or in the wake of my ultimate demise. Not with family or close friends present, of course, but in American society overall.

If we stop discussing his words and behavior, we give Death and Disease a power they should not have. If we let them throw a black shroud over his life's work, silencing him as well as us in the process, then they've really and truly won.

 

[A Desert Rose]

It's not anyone in particular.

I find this whole crazy debate disrespectful. The original comment that sparked this may or may not have been funny. It may or may not have been in good taste. Fighting about it, however, is NOT funny and IS in bad taste.

JMHO.

Okay since I'm part of "not anyone in particular" I apologize to you for my part in it.
And I'll go away.

 

[Etoile]

Okay since I'm part of "not anyone in particular" I apologize to you for my part in it.
And I'll go away.

I don't mean that you should apologize to me! I'm just saying...it's kind of over the top in here right now. It felt like it needed a LOLcat, and that one expressed how I was feeling.