Sadistic parents or happy travellers?

[Keroin]

Maybe it's the lack of carbs.

Quick, someone get this woman a bagel!

 

[JMohegan]

While perusing some Vegas travel forums lately, I couldn’t help but notice several mentions of the number of children, (badly behaved was most often the complaint), on the strip. One poster was upset about a woman who was, essentially, using her stroller as a kind of battering ram to make her way along the crowded sidewalk of the strip…at midnight.

I’m all for children traveling. The sooner a child experiences other cultures, the better, IMO. However, I also think, before the age of, say, five, parents need to carefully consider where they take their children.

Two of my friends on this island own and run a small, budget resort and they have bitched to me more than once about people who want to bring their infants here in the middle of summer – even after they have been warned about the extreme temperatures. My friends think it’s cruel and selfish, and I am inclined to agree. For about four or five months, living on this island is like living, 24/7, inside a Turkish steam bath. Only a couple of high-end resorts have air conditioning because power is so expensive. During the day, in direct sunlight, you can burn in about 10 minutes and even the shade is stifling. Even locals have a hard time but at least they, and their children, are acclimatized. Tourists coming from a northern hemisphere winter to a South Pacific summer suffer big time and their babies even more so.

My question is why do people want to travel to places like Vegas, (in July!) or a scorching tropical island, with infants and toddlers? Are they just selfish? There are plenty of child-friendly places on the planet, (that are far cheaper and easier to get to than this island), so why not go there?

Five minutes in Las Vegas filled me with more disgust than the sum total of my life experiences with cranky or obnoxious children. An hour was the limit of my tolerance for that epicenter of wretched excess.

I've gotta say that your island doesn't sound like such a great spot for a vacation either. Extreme heat, with no prospect for regular relief from the same? No thanks.

As for the question at hand - it seems to me that your friends are being selfish, by accepting guests with young children. If they firmly believe that it's cruel for infants to be housed at their resort, then they should refuse to allow infants. Problem solved.

 

[Keroin]

Five minutes in Las Vegas filled me with more disgust than the sum total of my life experiences with cranky or obnoxious children. An hour was the limit of my tolerance for that epicenter of wretched excess.

I've gotta say that your island doesn't sound like such a great spot for a vacation either. Extreme heat, with no prospect for regular relief from the same? No thanks.

As for the question at hand - it seems to me that your friends are being selfish, by accepting guests with young children. If they firmly believe that it's cruel for infants to be housed at their resort, then they should refuse to allow infants. Problem solved.

First, Vegas, wretched excess, no argument. Still, not a place I'd bring an infant or small children.

Second, this island is perfectly fine several months out of the year. And for tourists who will spend the majority of their time swimming and lounging by the pool, with a cold drink, and who possess the means to control their body temperature to some degree, it is also fine. For those of us who work and live in it, it is highly unpleasant during the peak of summer. But, you also adapt somewhat.

Third, my friends run a small, budget place. Their profits are small as it is, not helped by the current recession. I think they're just trying to keep their heads above water at this point. Should they disallow infants? Perhaps. I would. But I don't rely on that industry to feed and clothe me.

 

[YourCaptor]

Happy travelers, LV is for families now. Sin city is just a long past fantasy. To compare a south pacific island to LV is like comparing a south pacific island to Disneyland. Give it up, your idea of vegas is gone, try another place.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

This is a point that many people, and many parents especially, seem to miss. I can usually tell if one of my kids is heading towards complete meltdown. Nothing is going to help, and the child simply needs to be removed from the situation.

In non-meltdown situations, I usually just tell whichever child is being a pill that they can go and sit in the car with me if they want, but that continuing to act out in wherever we are needs to cease now. Interestingly, not once have I actually had to sit in the car with any of them. I have scooped up each of them when they were infants and walked outside, but I don't count that. Crying tired hungry whatever baby is a different story. You don't reason with them. You fix the problem, or remove them from whatever situation they're in so as to cool them off and not bother other people. Letting them scream does them no good.

My tolerance to the tantrums of other peoples kids varies. It's usually fairly easy to see if the parent has control of the situation or not. Some parents just panic when their kid acts out in public and even as toddlers they can spot that weakness and exploit it. A parent that's in control will do much as Homburg suggested and give said kid options: 1) Calm down and behave. 2) Sit in the car. The kid knows there isn't a third option called 'scream until I get my way' so they usually don't bother.

Parents who usually suffer in public are the ones who can be heard making empty threats before backing down or compromising to an unreasonable degree with their little monster. I'm not saying it's always the parent fault or anything like it and I accept that kids with behavioural disorders will appear more unruly than they actually are but as a bystander, I can only really comment on what I've seen.

I don't think kids should be pacified and pandered to so I accept that in the interest of not raising a spoilt brat, every parent is going to have to endure public outbursts and resist capitulating to a misbehaving child.

What I hate most is utterly disinterested parents (often very young single mothers IME) who completely ignore a child having a tantrum. I've seen them pushing their screaming kids round the town centre without batting an eyelid. Neglectful behaviour like that does make me angry and even more so if I'm forced to sit too close to it in a public place. There's no point in resenting or blaming a child for being tired, hungry, bored shitless or sat in a dirty nappy but these women somehow manage it.

 

[JMohegan]

First, Vegas, wretched excess, no argument. Still, not a place I'd bring an infant or small children.

Second, this island is perfectly fine several months out of the year. And for tourists who will spend the majority of their time swimming and lounging by the pool, with a cold drink, and who possess the means to control their body temperature to some degree, it is also fine. For those of us who work and live in it, it is highly unpleasant during the peak of summer. But, you also adapt somewhat.

Third, my friends run a small, budget place. Their profits are small as it is, not helped by the current recession. I think they're just trying to keep their heads above water at this point. Should they disallow infants? Perhaps. I would. But I don't rely on that industry to feed and clothe me.

I guess I don't understand what their point is. They want parents to refrain from coming to their resort with young kids in tow, but they don't want to refuse service to parents with young kids in tow? That doesn't make sense. Either way, they'd lose the business if the parents were unwilling to leave the kids with grandma.


ETA: By the way, "No children under 16 permitted" is actually a PLUS in booking travelers at many Caribbean resorts, i.e., occupancy rates go UP when they impose that restriction. Not sure why the reverse would be true in the Pacific.

 

[Homburg]

As an aside, I'm not claiming some sort of prescience in judging meltdowns in my kids. I just tend to pay attention, and realise when the point of diminishing returns has been reached. If anything, much like ITW, I err on the side of leaving early. It's safer for everyone involved. I just feel like way too many parents don't pay attention to the warning signs.

 

[graceanne]

I'm like D, so I wanted to be sure my kids could sleep through anything and not be like me.

I see people walking and holding a sleeping child and I think aww! Then I think, "Run go get a nap while the kid is asleep dummies!"

LOL

I am big on creating a world that has few but very strong barriers. My kids always had a lot of freedom within those few but strong rules we had. I rarely put them in a play pen but safety was high on my list of concerns so at the river and around a fire, yep, I sure would.

What I did at home was put gates on rooms I didn't want them in unsupervised. The rest of the house was fair game and even those areas were okay as long as an adult watched over them.

People often misuse play pens and barriers or worse, don't use them at all and assume their kids will remain safe and watched. If I prayed, I'd pray for them. As it is I chalk it up to Darwinism in practice.

Amen. Our house had those child proof door things, but that doesn't work for all kids (it took my nephew three hours to figure that out). Those were on my room, and the bathrooms. Otherwise the kids had/have the run of the house. When they were really small I kept cleaning supplies either up really high, or in the bathroom, and sharp things were kept up high. My feeling has always been that you just want to give yourself a couple of minutes extra notice so you can stop them. That extra lock on our door? My son figured it out in seconds, but he had to push a chair to the door to reach it and that gave me just a couple extra minutes to keep him from going outside.

I think that this is their home, too. Children are never going to learn how to communicate and be part of a family if you keep them in a cage, which is what I consider a play pen. For us the play pen was for if I needed my hands free, and a child out from under my feet. And then they were taken out of it.

This is just my belief, btw. If you (general you) don't agree, honestly? I don't care. It's not abuse to put a child in a play pen, and I DO NOT, in anyway, claim to be an expert on parenting. This is just how I see it.

My tolerance to the tantrums of other peoples kids varies. It's usually fairly easy to see if the parent has control of the situation or not. Some parents just panic when their kid acts out in public and even as toddlers they can spot that weakness and exploit it. A parent that's in control will do much as Homburg suggested and give said kid options: 1) Calm down and behave. 2) Sit in the car. The kid knows there isn't a third option called 'scream until I get my way' so they usually don't bother.

That's pretty much the options. Occasionally, if I can't leave with them and they won't behave, we'll either ignore him/her (and no one's gonna claim it's not bugging me - I'm pretty tight lipped and bitchy looking) and hand out consequences later, or I'll duck into a bathroom and have a 'discussion' with them. It depends on the situation. If my child is being a pain in the ass cause they're sick/tired/etc, I just ignore and take them home and deal with the issue. If they're just pushing to see if they can, we have a 'discussion' in the bathroom.

Parents who usually suffer in public are the ones who can be heard making empty threats before backing down or compromising to an unreasonable degree with their little monster. I'm not saying it's always the parent fault or anything like it and I accept that kids with behavioural disorders will appear more unruly than they actually are but as a bystander, I can only really comment on what I've seen.

The key here, is 'compromising to an unreasonable degree'. As we've gone over, my son has behavioral issues. I do not compromise to an unreasonable degree, even if he's totally flipping out. Which, honestly, tantrums aren't really his issue. He's a little ray of sunshine that never stops moving. Even if he does throw a tantrum, he forgets why he was mad within minutes, and quits.

On the other hand, I really am bad about how I respond to whining. lol But, as I said, before, I'm not a perfect parent. Sometimes I reward whining, and I really really shouldn't. I don't even think about it until later, and I'm like 'doh!'

I don't think kids should be pacified and pandered to so I accept that in the interest of not raising a spoilt brat, every parent is going to have to endure public outbursts and resist capitulating to a misbehaving child.

What I hate most is utterly disinterested parents (often very young single mothers IME) who completely ignore a child having a tantrum. I've seen them pushing their screaming kids round the town centre without batting an eyelid. Neglectful behaviour like that does make me angry and even more so if I'm forced to sit too close to it in a public place. There's no point in resenting or blaming a child for being tired, hungry, bored shitless or sat in a dirty nappy but these women somehow manage it.

I used to work at Meier and Frank, and it never ceased to amaze us the people who would bring their children in around midnight (christmas season) and then wonder why said child was a monster. I remember, once, I was 'flying' (read: filling in) in another section. I heard this child tell his mother FOUR TIMES that he had to go to the bathroom and she didn't even respond. A few minutes later I heard him peeing in the dressing room. I do not blame that child, I TOTALLY blame his mother.

 

[nh23]

But then they're not. Not in like a woooo bad way, but they're not typical. They're probably far more interesting than that.

It makes your job a hell of a lot harder, or at least requires different expertise.

(H's son is ADHD, I'm not merely pulling from my ass on this but many a long conversation)

You've got more things to monitor, like the actual duration of attention spans, what things are overwhelming, caffeine levels, what kinds of things are demoralizingly frustrating, what kinds of things bring out that eye for detail hyperfocus and your kids can feel super successful at.

I live with an ADD adult and these things *still* are issues in simply relating well. I'm not saying this for the sake of Walmart shoppers, but your ADHD kid isn't typical at all. They're more interesting, probably gifted in some totally fascinating ways, and driven totally crazy by things that people with typical brain chemistry aren't fazed by.

M once was telling me "this is what the inside of my head sounds like."

And I looked at him and I was completely blown away. If the inside of my head sounded like that I'd probably have a nervous breakdown in a week. Not like ooo I hear voices, but VAST amounts of information at once without any editing. ADHD people who cope are doing more with twice the workload.

The cool part, is that he sees detail that normals miss all the time. You'd want him going over a police lineup.

I know! LOL Right after I posted this I told Master, my kids aren't typical. I shouldn't have said that. My kids are special. But, I think typical kids misbehave also. But I won't claim to know anything. I'm not a typical parent. I about died laughing yesterday when my son called me a shithead. He wasn't being disrespectful btw. Someone called him that and I think he didn't know how bad it was.

 

[graceanne]

I know! LOL Right after I posted this I told Master, my kids aren't typical. I shouldn't have said that. My kids are special. But, I think typical kids misbehave also. But I won't claim to know anything. I'm not a typical parent. I about died laughing yesterday when my son called me a shithead. He wasn't being disrespectful btw. Someone called him that and I think he didn't know how bad it was.

About 7 years ago my husband was tickling my cousin, and he said 'YOU GIVE?' and she said 'IS THAT ALL YOU'VE GOT, PUSSY!?!'

About twenty minutes later, my three year old walked up and said to K "IS THAT ALL YOU'VE GOT, PUSSY?'"



You really gotta be careful what you say in front of kids.

 

[intothewoods]

Quick, someone get this woman a bagel!

Hee. Sorry for the hijack but I've essentially done this diet before, and it never fails, when I am around the baddy bad bad carbs, I really lose it. It's sort of funny.

Five minutes in Las Vegas filled me with more disgust than the sum total of my life experiences with cranky or obnoxious children. <snip>

Ha - I thought I was bad. I can handle two days max and that's it. I haven't been in close to a decade, but I did go a few times when I was on the other coast. It's the excess plus I always seem to run into some seriously fucked up, wouldn't want to be alone with them in a room, cabbies.

First, Vegas, wretched excess, no argument. Still, not a place I'd bring an infant or small children.
<snip>

I realize this isn't all that important, but you could actually bring an infant to LV or a bar or any other place of ill repute and they'd be none the wiser. Heat issues and smoky casino issues aside, of course.

My tolerance to the tantrums of other peoples kids varies. It's usually fairly easy to see if the parent has control of the situation or not. Some parents just panic when their kid acts out in public and even as toddlers they can spot that weakness and exploit it. A parent that's in control will do much as Homburg suggested and give said kid options: 1) Calm down and behave. 2) Sit in the car. The kid knows there isn't a third option called 'scream until I get my way' so they usually don't bother. <snip>

As an aside, I sometimes have trouble coming up with consequences out of the house. If it's somewhere I go regularly, I usually have it planned. But if I've never been there, I can't always go to my usual bag of tricks.

 

[yourmissl]

Parents, Kids, and Experts...

"Going on a family vacation to relax is like running down the railroad tracks to get away from a train."

I didn't write that, but I would have if I had thought of it first.

As a mother with 3 children, ages 13, 18, and 20, who has traveled extensively with them, (everything from the Great Wall of China and Tianaman Square to the Kremlin, Paris, Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpar, South Africa on safari.... lots more, but you get the idea), I have some pretty decided opinions and advice about traveling/dining/movies/opera/and Walmart.

I consider places like Walmart, Toys r Us, etc. excellent training grounds for children. Groceries (and occasionally toys) are necessities and frankly, from what I've observed in some stores, there is not much your child can do that they haven't seen before. Besides, these superstores owe us for putting all the little Mom & Pop stores that USED to be public training grounds out of business. The thing is, they are not training grounds for the children, or if so, only peripherally: they are training grounds for us - the parents. We have to teach ourselves to set rules, boundaries and limitations in a calm but assertive way, and then, if necessary, follow thru with the consequences without anger, despair or even a flash of self-doubt. (Since even a six-month old will immediately sense the smallest dust mote of mental vacillation and take steps to destroy every trace of the wise, relaxed, and superlatively self-controlled parent you had always known you would be. Before you actually had the kids.

One more point about Walmart, etc., before I move on to loftier venues. I too have been disturbed at the parents who either seem about to snap the thin cord of control, or at the other extreme, apparently wearing ear plugs while heavily medicated so that they are the only bloody person in a store of approximately 23,000 acres that is not losing their minds from the screaming little monsters hanging snot-nosed and upside down from the shopping cart. I try very hard to put a calm, friendly and conspiratorial smile on my face and offer help. Children really can be perfect horrors. The fact that we must make allowances for their behavior does not make the unearthly noise emanating from them any less horrific. Sometimes, a friendly word or mite of understanding is just enough support to allow that parent to mentally regroup. Parenthood is so often touted as the most important job in the world, yet there are scandalously few classes for the real work of parenting. Birthing classes? Oh yeah... like if we didn't take the class we wouldn't deliver? You have to take a course of study and pass an exam to drive a taxi or sell a house, but at least eighteen years of the 'most important job' - nah, just go ahead and breed - on the job training is fine.

Blah, blah, blah... I don't know why everyone thinks Tolstoy was such a big deal for writing War and Peace - I can POST that long, lol.

I guess I actually think everyone contributing to this thread had some excellent ideas. Every child and parent and situation calls for a specialized approach, Most parents that I know really try to do their best, but as someone (sorry I can't remember who) says in their sig - some days it just doesn't seem worth the trouble to chew thru the restraints.

I have to say, though, that if I get some down time and have a chance to dress like a grown-up instead of cotton draw-string pants and a tank top, and if I'm trying to savor my time and a glass of pinot grigio with its delicate, grown-up flavor; if I've taken the time and money to ensure my children are safe at home while I am NOT... I really don't want to listen to somebody else's kid being a brat. I don't care if you are in New York or a small town miles from anything but the grain co-op and McDonald's - there are at least ten restaurants better suited for children for every one that offers adults an adult experience.

Besides, its not even enjoyable to have dinner at a table where there are at least 5 extra implements per person to snatch from little curious hands; at least two extra glasses to save as impatient little fingers reach past them to smell the now mashed rose. Quickly now, say sweetly that he didn't kill the rose, and it still smells so pretty and... no, don't cry honey, its okay, ... yes, thank you, Mommy loves the rose, no sweetie, stay in your chair, that rose belongs to the people at that table, honey, sit down, its okay, NO, YOU MAY NOT HAVE ANOTHER ROSE - SIT DOWN. No, sweetheart Mommy's not angry, but we need to stay in our seats and use our inside voices, NO, darling, that's a grown-up drink, here, this yummy juice is for you, oops, you found another knife - give to mommy, darling, oh look - don't worry about the knife - look, sweetheart - lovely veggies for you to munch, and some bread - its a roll, honey - yes it really is a roll. I know it looks different from the ones we usually get, but its so yummy - ooh - its warm. Its good warm, here take a little bite = I know it doesn't look the same but just try a tiny little bite. TAKE A BITE, NOW. No, I'm not annoyed sweetheart, but I would like you just to try a little bite. Just one bite... those are too carrots, they just cut them in pretty curly-cues, no, they're not pinwheels, no DON"T THROW... they taste the same as always, don't reach across, its okay, don't worry, I know you didn't mean to spill the water no don't cry.......

and all that is before you even order. Why, why, why would I want to put myself thru this???? My fellow parents, particularly with ADD or ADHD will probably laugh while reading this, but find it painfully familiar at the same time.


Talk about a ramble. Most of us try our best and make mistakes, big and small, anyway. The only thing you can do is take a deep breath and keep going. BTW, to those of you who chose NOT to have children... your life, your choice and I admire you for saying 'this is not for me.'

Cheers,
miss l [

 

[graceanne]

"Going on a family vacation to relax is like running down the railroad tracks to get away from a train."
.
.
.
Besides, its not even enjoyable to have dinner at a table where there are at least 5 extra implements per person to snatch from little curious hands; at least two extra glasses to save as impatient little fingers reach past them to smell the now mashed rose. Quickly now, say sweetly that he didn't kill the rose, and it still smells so pretty and... no, don't cry honey, its okay, ... yes, thank you, Mommy loves the rose, no sweetie, stay in your chair, that rose belongs to the people at that table, honey, sit down, its okay, NO, YOU MAY NOT HAVE ANOTHER ROSE - SIT DOWN. No, sweetheart Mommy's not angry, but we need to stay in our seats and use our inside voices, NO, darling, that's a grown-up drink, here, this yummy juice is for you, oops, you found another knife - give to mommy, darling, oh look - don't worry about the knife - look, sweetheart - lovely veggies for you to munch, and some bread - its a roll, honey - yes it really is a roll. I know it looks different from the ones we usually get, but its so yummy - ooh - its warm. Its good warm, here take a little bite = I know it doesn't look the same but just try a tiny little bite. TAKE A BITE, NOW. No, I'm not annoyed sweetheart, but I would like you just to try a little bite. Just one bite... those are too carrots, they just cut them in pretty curly-cues, no, they're not pinwheels, no DON"T THROW... they taste the same as always, don't reach across, its okay, don't worry, I know you didn't mean to spill the water no don't cry.......

ROFLMAO

My husband and I know every good buffet restaurant for about 20 miles.

 

[Homburg]

. The thing is, they are not training grounds for the children, or if so, only peripherally: they are training grounds for us - the parents. We have to teach ourselves to set rules, boundaries and limitations in a calm but assertive way, and then, if necessary, follow thru with the consequences without anger, despair or even a flash of self-doubt. (Since even a six-month old will immediately sense the smallest dust mote of mental vacillation and take steps to destroy every trace of the wise, relaxed, and superlatively self-controlled parent you had always known you would be. Before you actually had the kids.

QFT.

Excellent post.

 

[Netzach]

If I say this precise thing, I'm the Evil Childless Child Eating Harpy.

But if you've proven your uterus produces people, you have earned the right not to be in love with other people's children.

 

[Homburg]

If I say this precise thing, I'm the Evil Childless Child Eating Harpy.

But if you've proven your uterus produces people, you have earned the right not to be in love with other people's children.

Don't eat mai kidz, plzkthx!

 

[graceanne]

Don't eat mai kidz, plzkthx!

Oooooookay! Too much lolcats for you!

 

[Keroin]

If I say this precise thing, I'm the Evil Childless Child Eating Harpy.

But if you've proven your uterus produces people, you have earned the right not to be in love with other people's children.

I wish my uterus produced chocolate bars. Heck, I'd give birth every day.


Totally unrelated but...it's my thread so I can do what I want.

My copy of Close Range by Anne Proulx finally arrived in the mail! I'm debating whether to read it now or save it for my travel book for when I leave in October. I am kind of dying to read the tractor girl story but I am also reading Shantaram but that book's getting kind of blah, blah, blah. Hm, I'll see. Anyway, thanks for the recommendation!

 

[Keroin]

Ha - I thought I was bad. I can handle two days max and that's it. I haven't been in close to a decade, but I did go a few times when I was on the other coast. It's the excess plus I always seem to run into some seriously fucked up, wouldn't want to be alone with them in a room, cabbies.

I realize this isn't all that important, but you could actually bring an infant to LV or a bar or any other place of ill repute and they'd be none the wiser. Heat issues and smoky casino issues aside, of course.

Oh, I know it's possible to bring them there, I can just think of a thousand other places I'd rather take children and I can't imagine me having a good time there with children in tow. But then, I'm very selfish that way.

It's funny, you know, the whole excess and waste thing about Vegas. I see excess and waste all over the place in the civilized world. Every time I walk in a shopping mall I am bombarded by it. Vegas just happens to be the epi-centre of all that is excessive and wasteful. I feel no burning need to defend my enjoyment of the occasional, (once every several years), two or three day jaunts to the land of hedonism but I will say that I live pretty small and softly on this planet for the vast majority of my life, more so than most North Americans, so a few days of debauchery doesn't bother my conscience too much. ( I just pretend I'm on another planet).

 

[jockdom]

Long haul flights for wee infants are just wrong.

 

[intothewoods]

Long haul flights for wee infants are just wrong.

No way! Unless they're so young that they haven't been okayed for travel by their pediatricians. The only issue would be whether they can ward off the germs on the flight. Other than that, unless you have a colicky baby or a baby with health issues of some sort, pre-crawling infants sleep a lot. Flying is a breeze! Once they are mobile? Keep the flights short, or possibly at night if you've got a great sleeper (but only if you have a great sleeper).

 

[Keroin]

Once they are mobile? Keep the flights short, or possibly at night if you've got a great sleeper (but only if you have a great sleeper).

And please train them not to kick the back of my seat for seven hours straight.

Please.

 

[intothewoods]

Oh, I know it's possible to bring them there, I can just think of a thousand other places I'd rather take children and I can't imagine me having a good time there with children in tow. But then, I'm very selfish that way.

It's funny, you know, the whole excess and waste thing about Vegas. I see excess and waste all over the place in the civilized world. Every time I walk in a shopping mall I am bombarded by it. Vegas just happens to be the epi-centre of all that is excessive and wasteful. I feel no burning need to defend my enjoyment of the occasional, (once every several years), two or three day jaunts to the land of hedonism but I will say that I live pretty small and softly on this planet for the vast majority of my life, more so than most North Americans, so a few days of debauchery doesn't bother my conscience too much. ( I just pretend I'm on another planet).

I think it's so freaky ass weird that you've got to see it once. I don't gamble and I'm no longer a professional-level shopper (merely an amateur), so the appeal is pretty much gone. For various reasons I've had to blow through there every once in a long while and I'll go out to dinner, sit at a pool, maybe get a spa treatment. I hear there is good vintage clothing shopping.

 

[Primalex]

And please train them not to kick the back of my seat for seven hours straight.

Yeah, the poor seat!

 

[intothewoods]

And please train them not to kick the back of my seat for seven hours straight.

Please.

A toddler, no doubt. Toddlers and planes are like oil and water. Just. Don't. Do. It. Seriously, I would have happily just skipped flying during those years. Long story as to why I couldn't.

Anyway, I thought of you recently Keroin. I still have to laugh though, because I know if that happened to me, kidlet would get out one kick and the person in front would rip me a new one and then I would want to crawl under a rock and apologize profusely and offer my car and some cash.