Scream it out! Roe v. Wade edition

[jaF0]

^^^ Nawh, it's the same thing. Guys just want to shoot off their guns and let others deal with the consequences.

 

[aussiegeekygal]

^^^ Nawh, it's the same thing. Guys just want to shoot off their guns and let others deal with the consequences.

No consequences for my dick bullets

 

[Dribble]

Don't ya love those playing both sides?

 

[cascadiabound]

Don't ya love those playing both sides?

Irritating as fuck.

 

[cascadiabound]

 

[NeonSubtlety]

This is such a divisive issue…and the stakes are so high that I think it’s virtually impossible to bridge the gap. But I’ve spent my entire life as a moderate-liberal being thought of as radical in a conservative safe haven.

What I think is lost is the majority. And I think media tends to exacerbate a lot of this by focusing on the ends of the spectrums. So, while I understand that there’s a solid chance I’m just going to piss off people I might respect on both sides, I just want to remind everyone that:


Virtually no democrats/progressives are in favor of killing babies; they just don’t think they are (babies). They don’t believe that fetuses, embryos, unborn children are ACTUALLY children in the way you might think they are.

And virtually no republicans/conservatives want to rob individuals of bodily autonomy; they just believe they’re doing so to SAVE A LIFE. They believe those fetuses, embryos, and unborn children are all living humans that are being killed.

I’m not trying to force an opinion. But, I think it’s lost that the overwhelming sentiment from both sides are probably universally championed. Bodily autonomy is important. The lives of babies are important. I think we all agree with both of those things. But we’re being divided to such polarity because we largely disagree on when a life is a life.

Again, I’m not trying to convince anyone when a life is a life. But I think it’s important that we don’t create monsters out of those who simply disagree on only that topic.

Of course there are exceptions who are using this topic to divide or prosper. Those individuals are disgusting. But, for the most part, I hope that the pluralism thst makes our country great can withstand what is likely the greatest test it’s faces since slavery.

 

[cascadiabound]

If you don't believe in abortion, or you fervently believe embryos are people, don't have an abortion. Leave everyone else the fuck alone.

 

[cascadiabound]

Also... there is a deep history of anti reproductive health care access being rooted in racism. These things are connected.
https://www.aclu.org/news/racial-justice/the-racist-history-of-abortion-and-midwifery-bans

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/18/us/abortion-ban-women-of-color/index.html

@NeonSubtlety

 

[NeonSubtlety]

I apologize if I’m not gleaning the exact meaning of those two articles, as I believe they’re making different points. But, if the point is that abortion restrictions disproportionally affect black women and black families, I agree. And while we can all speculate as to the reasoning behind abortion (or its restrictions) in the past, I think we’re also able to read into its motivations and effects currently.

Personally, I don’t believe that the majority pushing the pro-life sentiment is doing it for anything other than religious reasons; I think they believe that abortion is tantamount to murder.

I also, personally, disagree with the thinking. I have a different view of when life begins. But, because the stakes are so high here (life versus bodily autonomy), disagreements on that topic lead to heartbreaking consequences.

I’m more encouraging empathy from both sides than I’m encouraging opening communication.

Unfortunately, the topic is so polarizing that communication would, I believe, degrade into something negative. After all, how could someone have a rational conversation about how it’s okay to rob a woman of her right to choose for herself? or rob a baby of it’s future ability to choose for itself? Both prospects are difficult.

Instead, I’m just asking for patience and understanding for the perspectives of both sides…not all perspectives, but specifically those whose primary drivers are either 1) preserving autonomy for women and 2) preserving what some consider a life.

This isn’t an easy thing to talk about. And to say so is disrespectful, I believe, of the reasonable people who come down on different sides of the issue.

I don’t have a dog in this race because my body isn’t one that’s being threatened and because I don’t personally believe fetuses deserve protection over the women who carry them. But, I just want to try and alleviate some of the hatred borne of this topic…if that’s even possible.

 

[cascadiabound]

I'd like to point out that this thread was created as a space to vent about this most recent SCOTUS opinion which demotes women back to property and less personhood autonomy than a corspe. I recognize there are those who disagree.

I would refer you to the history of the anti abortion movement that in my opinion is largely about mobilizing an emotional response to politics when it was no longer PC to be overtly racist.

At the time of the Roe v Wade decision, evangelical Christians did not oppose the decision and were largely in favor of abortion being legal. The change did not happen until almost a decade later.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133/

Also, as a person raised as a faithful Christian, I believe the arguments made by the religious right regarding abortion (and homosexuality) are specious and are a misreading and misunderstanding of the Bible. At the very least they choose to lift some bits out of context and read them as absolute while ignoring other texts entirely (just for starters, prohibitions against consumption of seafood and marking the body with tattoos.)

 

[NeonSubtlety]

Apologies. I didn’t mean to take that away. Or even distract from it.

 

[cascadiabound]

Apologies. I didn’t mean to take that away. Or even distract from it.

Thanks.

 

[aussiegeekygal]

And we do believe babies are human.
We also recognize that until a certain point, they're incompatible with life without the direct connection to their mother.
I think most people agree that once a baby is viable without a placenta, there's a completely different attitude to abortion.
The truth is these are distracting talking points that detract from the fact that any restrictions on abortion care just add trauma to an already traumatic situation.

Noone is killing fetus' that can survive on the outside. We've got to eliminate that talking point because it's harmful and distracting.

 

[NeonSubtlety]

Sorry. I got sucked back in. My main point is that there are a segment of well-intentioned people who, no matter how flawed I believe their thinking is, believe that fetuses are humans. And that abortion is the killing of a human. Again, I’m sure you all know this. It’s not lost in you. It’s just obscured because you’re having a fundamental, human right stripped from you.

I don’t think it’s distraction. If you saw someone being murdered, you’d have a guttural, emotional reaction — as would any resonable person. And I empathize with those who, even if flawed in their thinking, are forced to reconcile their need for bodily autonomy versus seeing a what they consider to be a human being killed.

I only clarified because I worried that the point was being obscured. I’ll shut up now…even if the next comments make me itch like a morphine addict. I promise. Sorry to hijack again.

 

[Diosax]

I hope you bring that same kind of energy to the other side as well and advocate for our pov

 

[pandaburr]

At some point, we have to stop with the hard limits of what constitutes right and wrong around the topic of abortion. Either you are pro abortion or you’re just not.

Those who are not will twist any “limit” we mention to fit their narrative. The “well it’s a human baby once it’s compatible with life” - my friends mom is already sharing posts about the youngest baby to ever survive so how do you create the threshold of viability?

We know that the vast majority of abortions are happening before viability but are there cases where you find out late in the pregnancy that the baby’s quality of life may be compromised? The mothers life? Absolutely. And either of those are good enough reason to me. The truth is, some situations call for abortions to be performed where the fetus can survive. I won’t create any personal limits though for where my support ends of a woman’s right to choose - I am pro abortion for a vast majority of valid (not sensationalized) scenarios, even where viability can occur.

 

[Diosax]

I personally can't stop thinking about the 10yo CHILD that is gonna be force to carry out a pregnancy.

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRLGoVeP/?k=1

 

[cascadiabound]

I'd be slightly more susceptible to the arguments about the absolute sanctity of life if those same people weren't also advocates for the death penalty (note: the criminal justice system is also deeply racist and fails in basic equity), seem to have little to no interest in any kind of gun control, and have no interest in providing child care, early learning programs or even school lunch to kids living below the poverty line.

I understand you think you are helping here @NeonSubtlety however you have not educated yourself on the many fallacies of the anti choice arguments and you are inadvertently carrying their water. Therefore, you are not helping.

Also... I want to reassert a point I have made already... anti choice women are just as likely to seek an abortion, statistically as other women in this country. They just are certain that THEIR reasons are good ones, as opposed to everyone else who are sinners and terrible

 

[Dribble]

This is such a divisive issue…and the stakes are so high that I think it’s virtually impossible to bridge the gap. But I’ve spent my entire life as a moderate-liberal being thought of as radical in a conservative safe haven.

What I think is lost is the majority. And I think media tends to exacerbate a lot of this by focusing on the ends of the spectrums. So, while I understand that there’s a solid chance I’m just going to piss off people I might respect on both sides, I just want to remind everyone that:


Virtually no democrats/progressives are in favor of killing babies; they just don’t think they are (babies). They don’t believe that fetuses, embryos, unborn children are ACTUALLY children in the way you might think they are.

And virtually no republicans/conservatives want to rob individuals of bodily autonomy; they just believe they’re doing so to SAVE A LIFE. They believe those fetuses, embryos, and unborn children are all living humans that are being killed.

I’m not trying to force an opinion. But, I think it’s lost that the overwhelming sentiment from both sides are probably universally championed. Bodily autonomy is important. The lives of babies are important. I think we all agree with both of those things. But we’re being divided to such polarity because we largely disagree on when a life is a life.

Again, I’m not trying to convince anyone when a life is a life. But I think it’s important that we don’t create monsters out of those who simply disagree on only that topic.

Of course there are exceptions who are using this topic to divide or prosper. Those individuals are disgusting. But, for the most part, I hope that the pluralism thst makes our country great can withstand what is likely the greatest test it’s faces since slavery.

You are wrong. At least referring towards Republicans. Understand, that as a Democrat when my Party does something I do not agree with, I withhold my vote. I make my voice heard. I work towards fixing the issues. Republicans...will always vote Republican...in spite of having a leader that attempted a coup. In spite of removing voting rights. In spite of destroying women's rights. In spite of kids being murdered in schools. They will keep supporting Fascist policies because THEY ARE FASCISTS TOO. See the difference now?

 

[jaF0]

Fucking dribbler keeps dribbling the 'f' word all over the board.

Fucking dribbler needs a bib.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

I apologize if I’m not gleaning the exact meaning of those two articles, as I believe they’re making different points. But, if the point is that abortion restrictions disproportionally affect black women and black families, I agree. And while we can all speculate as to the reasoning behind abortion (or its restrictions) in the past, I think we’re also able to read into its motivations and effects currently.

Personally, I don’t believe that the majority pushing the pro-life sentiment is doing it for anything other than religious reasons; I think they believe that abortion is tantamount to murder.

I also, personally, disagree with the thinking. I have a different view of when life begins. But, because the stakes are so high here (life versus bodily autonomy), disagreements on that topic lead to heartbreaking consequences.

I’m more encouraging empathy from both sides than I’m encouraging opening communication.

Unfortunately, the topic is so polarizing that communication would, I believe, degrade into something negative. After all, how could someone have a rational conversation about how it’s okay to rob a woman of her right to choose for herself? or rob a baby of it’s future ability to choose for itself? Both prospects are difficult.

Instead, I’m just asking for patience and understanding for the perspectives of both sides…not all perspectives, but specifically those whose primary drivers are either 1) preserving autonomy for women and 2) preserving what some consider a life.

This isn’t an easy thing to talk about. And to say so is disrespectful, I believe, of the reasonable people who come down on different sides of the issue.

I don’t have a dog in this race because my body isn’t one that’s being threatened and because I don’t personally believe fetuses deserve protection over the women who carry them. But, I just want to try and alleviate some of the hatred borne of this topic…if that’s even possible.

I believe it is insanely disrespectful for a man to make this bolded statement to women. This topic is very easy for me to talk about. I don’t give a fuck if a man thinks it should be hard to talk about. It’s not. This is supposedly a nation of freedom including freedom of and from religion. We are expressing our anger here at the lack of this promised freedom to half of the population.

 

[cascadiabound]

Reasonable people are welcome to make different decisions about their own healthcare. It is NOT reasonable to impose YOUR religious views on others. It is especially galling when those "religious" views are not actually based in an accurate reading of history or religious texts. The wrapping of a certain kind of Christianity into the politics and policies of our country will only lead us into a religious autocracy which will strip more and more people of more and more rights. This is, at base, what makes me so infuriated about the path this SCOTUS majority is taking us down.

 

[Mrtenant]

If you can sell a kidney for $200,000 because no one can make you donate it to save a life, then maybe a woman should be able to rent out her uterus for what, $1 million, $2 million? $10 million?

Make the state pay for it since they want to mandate. Where's a legal eagle that can put this in court? They want to play hardball? Make them fucking pay for it.

Surrogate mothers get paid.
Getting paid for eggs is a thing
Many countries pay their citizens to have babies

The cons only understand money and power.
Make
Them
Pay

Hammer the courts with as many lawsuits as it takes.

Oh and this...

And even better....you can make a Women's Union where for just 2 cents (because everyone wants to put in their 2 cents, amiright?) per month, the Union will go to work on your behalf and negotiate uterus rental rates and create a tremendous guaranteed voting bloc. What woman would not want to vote with the union when they can extort the state for million$, legally? Then we will see how the cons like to get fucked.

Everyone gets it when there is money involved.

Yea, I'm just crazy ranting. Everyone get their popcorn?

 

[tnman03]

I’ve said this before, my personal feelings about abortion have no bearing whatsoever on a woman’s choice. That is her own decision and I have no right to question it or in any way even consider questioning her decision. This is something that I believe the Justices just flat out screwed up on.

I also reflect on the fact that a person choosing to end their life due to a terminal illness, inability to care for themselves due to injury or other disability as well as a desire to avoid the later stages of dementia is not universally legal.

Yet, many states continue to enforce death penalties for commissions of certain crimes. How is it that a woman or terminal patient can be denied their choice, but a state or government can execute a convicted person? It’s disturbing. It is also reprehensible that women with known pregnancies where the child will not survive or will never have cognitive awareness are in limbo now. As are women who have been raped or are victims of incest. This is not what should be happening.

 

[cascadiabound]

Further proof it is not and never has been about babies.

https://ctmirror.org/2022/06/26/senate-fails-to-pass-breastfeeding-law/