Serious question about God

[Guest]

here is a site that shows a lot of different prayers and you can see that they have many different uses. It is also interesting to browse and reflect on:

http://www.worldprayers.org/

I think that the best thing that you can do is take your questions straight to God in prayer. And set aside some quiet time to listen as well as to talk.

Thank you for the links and for your insightful posts.

I'm having trouble believing in the whole process of prayer, however. Taking my questions to God won't help me until I work through my mental barriers.

 

[yui]

Thank you for the links and for your insightful posts.

I'm having trouble believing in the whole process of prayer, however. Taking my questions to God won't help me until I work through my mental barriers.

If I understand Christianity, your God doesn't ask that you invite Him in after you've cleaned you spiritual house, but that you invite Him in to help with the process.

Much luck to you,

Yui

 

[English Lady]

If I understand Christianity, your God doesn't ask that you invite Him in after you've cleaned you spiritual house, but that you invite Him in to help with the process.

Much luck to you,

Yui

Beautiful and so very true

 

[amicus]

Without women, there would be no god, no religion...before you jump up and down and scream and call me names...look at the stats...who goes to churches, who participates...and which between the genders is more subject to emotionalism....

ahem...


amicus...

 

[Guest]

Without women, there would be no god, no religion...before you jump up and down and scream and call me names...look at the stats...who goes to churches, who participates...and which between the genders is more subject to emotionalism....

ahem...


amicus...

I don't jump up and down, ami, unless I'm practicing my kicks.

But you will not turn this thread into another of your misogynistic rants. Go away.

 

[rgraham666]

Didn't see our 'friend's' post until you quoted it, sarahh.

LOL. Women are the emotional ones, eh?

Well, who starts the wars? Who fights in them? Men. Because men are usually romantic enough and emotional enough to think that war somehow accomplishes something.

Who are the ones who create the 'great ideas'? The ideas that demand people act a certain way and demand that those who don't toe the line be destroyed. Men, of course.

The ancient Taoist masters showed how the man of aggressive violence appears to be ruthless but is really an emotionalist.

Thomas Cleary in the Introduction to his translation of The Art of War

Women are the practical ones, friend. We men are the ones who fall prey to our emotions most often.

 

[hurricane64]

I grew up in a conservative Southern religious environment. I eventually went to college and got out of my "shelter," beginning to see what the rest of the world was like, in some ways shocked, in others intrigued. It's a pretty common epiphany for many, I think.

My beliefs and views today are very different than they were as a teenager and early adult. Unfortunately, many of my life choices were based on beliefs I held then, and it creates major conflicts and struggles in my personal life that I deal with to this day.

That's another story altogether, for another time.

I ultimately believe in God from a logic standpoint, just as an atheist or agnostic reasons from their side that there is not a God, or that it is impossible for us to know if there is one. Ultimately, in the chain of the universe, however it was created, there has to be a point of beginning. Something, or some one, had to be present at that beginning. Something/someone has to be responsible for setting it all in motion. I consider that enough evidence of a God for me, although I see how someone can use that same line of reasoning the other direction.

I have no reason to doubt the message of Christ, and still adhere to it, although I'm really bad at it. Part of my belief is that we're not expected to be good at it, which was the whole point of the message, which is where I diverge with many I used to go to church with (I generally do not attend regularly).

As far as prayer goes, I think it's disingenous to implore God to give me what I want. I do think prayers for guidance and for serenity are well-intended and well-received.

Some of the greatest spiritual times I've had (and have) are when I climb a mountain to some awesome vista, find a rock to sit on, look out on the world in wonderment, and clear my head. I'm able to sit and contemplate and really sort things out in my head when I'm troubled; what I should do, what shouldn't I do.

That's my spiritual time, and really what prayer has come to mean to me.

 

[Kassiana]

If you die and discover you were wrong you will be up shit creek, and there will be no turning back, no chance for reconciliation.

--And when you die and find out that God thinks the Bible and Christianity are blasphemous and offensive, so will you. It isn't just an either-or, hon. That's why Pascal's Wager (believe in Christianity because there's no penalty for not) doesn't work. There could be numerous penalties for believing what you do.

Of course, that's assuming God's enough of a jerk to torture people for eternity. I don't think any God exists that would have a hell. It's a human revenge fantasy that's been dogmatized. So you're safe if I'm right.

But if I'm wrong and Allah was the right God and you blasphemed him by saying he had a son and the Quran wasn't his word, you're in a heap of trouble.

 

[yui]

Without women, there would be no god, no religion...before you jump up and down and scream and call me names...look at the stats...who goes to churches, who participates...and which between the genders is more subject to emotionalism....

ahem...


amicus...

So you're saying that it was all those female disciples and prophets that started all this religion mess?

And correct me if I'm wrong, but on the whole, women haven't exactly been the benefactors of the in Eastern or Western religion. Don't confuse the faith with the power structure.

Yui

 

[amicus]

Hurricane 64...very nice post...well said...

But even the immature human mind, if it postulates that 'all that exists had to a have a beginning!' realizes that if you posit a 'creator', then some idiot such as me, is going to ask where in the hell did your creator come from? Who made it/him/her?


"...Part of my belief is that we're not expected to be good at it, which was the whole point of the message, ..."

Nice to have someone acknowledge that point, people are not expected to be able to live according to christian principles, thus 'guilt' enters and the witch doctors have a brass ring in your nose.

The will even ask you to pay them, tithe, them, as they forgive you for being human and fallible.

It is the nastiest, stickiest detritus in the sewage that accumulates in pennance and supplication. If one were to attempt to fabricate a torture that destroys mind, body and psyche, you can't find worse than sacrificing human life on earth for the insane promise of eternity in your father's house.

That 'wager' one makes doesn't take much, just your life.


amicus...

 

[hurricane64]

But even the immature human mind, if it postulates that 'all that exists had to a have a beginning!' realizes that if you posit a 'creator', then some idiot such as me, is going to ask where in the hell did your creator come from? Who made it/him/her?

That is true, and a valid question. A Mother of God type of thing. But, in the end, does that really matter in the grand scheme of things? The way I see it, it either isn't meant for us to know, or will be revealed eventually.

I admit it's a good exercise of the mind to imagine possibilities there. What bugs me is a lot of people I know think it's a sin to even consider something like that.

Nice to have someone acknowledge that point, people are not expected to be able to live according to christian principles, thus 'guilt' enters and the witch doctors have a brass ring in your nose.

I am one of these people (although I suspect they be few) that believe that Christ came to truly give us hope and free us from worrying about every little single thing, because no one (repeat: NO ONE) can live up to that standard. This is the only way it all makes sense for me. How each person works that out in his life and mind is up to him. No one can tell him or her how to do it.

If people would mind their own business concerning matters such as this, the world would be a much better place.

 

[amicus]

Hurricane 64 "...If people would mind their own business concerning matters such as this, the world would be a much better place..."

Well, yes, of course, but they don't, do they. We have these 'jesus freaks' running around and popes and bishops and whatnots proseletizing about how we shoud act, behave and worship.

I would be happy enough to leave them to their own ignorance, but they insist on passing laws that affect everyone. They insist, in some cases, on spreading their filth to others by any means available, allah akhbar, so help me god, et cetera, ad infinitum, ad nauseaum.

Thus we few good people of no ignorant faith, must, from time to time, constrain them.

I know...not what you meant at all.


amicus...

 

[English Lady]

hurricane 64- you are very right, as christians we're told we're going to cock it up more often than not and it does my head in that the church is so judgemental some times, well, alot of the time really.

I agree with you on the prayer aspect too, some of my most spiritual moments have been in places of great natural beauty. It is good just to let our spirit commune with God sometimes.

 

[Nickie Smiles]

My two cents. I'll give mine to.

I'm Christian, though I'm trying to dissociate myself from any theological school....just pure Christianity...you know, believe, be nice to people, and above all, have faith. I'm Christian as well. I will say it's about faith, and not works. If so, we wouldn't have the chance to ask for forgiveness. We are blessed to be able to do so. He died on the cross for our sins.

That faith part really does kick my ass. I had absolute faith until a few years ago...and as weird as it sounds, and I won't get too deep into it, I think I saw God, or atleast what we believe God to be. That takes the leap of faith and throws it right out the window....I have to trust my own senses on it, and there were others who witnessed similar instances that I know personally. The evidence from separate experiences was written down independently, times recorded, etc. We either experienced something completely other worldly or the Gov't is up to some seriously weird experiments. This could've been an epiphany, Satan in the flesh trying to mess with your thoughts or the spirit of God. I wish you would've explained in more detail.

I don't pray. I don't pray for one reason only; it seems too much like begging....it's not just humbling. Giving thanks for what we get is humbling by way of accepting that it wasn't something purely up to us. It's down right groveling, and the way I've experienced things, that doesn't do the job.
I pray. If you're saved and you're a Christian, and believe you have such faith then you should also believe in the power of prayer. You not only thank God for what He's given you, but also ask for forgiveness when needed, repent, (turn away from sin. Not alway easy, is it? We're on this site!) pray for those you're angry with, and pray for yourself. This is humbling yourself - before God, and I think you should, and He says to! I believe you'll be blessed for it. This will take away so many problems one is having. Also, by ending your prayer "In Jesus name, Amen" is very important in what I believe.

Begging isn't respectful. I don't beg. I don't pray except to give thanks.
God wants you to beg! It states that in the bible. I believe everyone should. To humble yourself before Him, says a lot!

Matthew 21:22
And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

Do I go to church? Nope. It's about fellowship in my mind. My relationship with God is between Him and I only. But when I get the chance, and I see someone who is similar, battling or having questions, I like to discuss it. And I believe I'll be blessed for that.

 

[elbiscayne]

Hail Eris!

 

[Guest]

Hail Eris!

Do you mean Eris, the Greek goddess of discord and strife?

Or do you perhaps mean Eros, the Greek god of love and sexual desire?

Because if I had to choose, I'd rather go for the sex.

 

[Dar~]

Do you mean Eris, the Greek goddess of discord and strife?

Or do you perhaps mean Eros, the Greek god of love and sexual desire?

Because if I had to choose, I'd rather go for the sex.

or perhaps Ares (god of War?)

 

[JarlsAxe]

Prayer for yourself

I am not a Xtian, but am very spiritual, so I'll make a very simple reply.

Prayer is for the person praying, period, I believe the main reason to pray, is to define to oneself what your wishes/thoughts are.

Prayer is self comfort really, does it work?
I couldn't say, not being a God/Diety

 

[elbiscayne]

Do you mean Eris, the Greek goddess of discord and strife?

Or do you perhaps mean Eros, the Greek god of love and sexual desire?

Because if I had to choose, I'd rather go for the sex.

I meant Eris. She's the only god I can think of that actually does her job, in a timely manner, and without being asked.

I think the ancestors had it right...god's for everything. Gods that worked with and against each other. Gods that had their own area of expertise. Gods that loved and hated, ate and fucked just like the mortals that created them.

What I see around me now is a god dictatorship.

At least I can say that I didn't vote for IT.

 

[The_old_man]

God is the that which delineated the physical laws by which this universe, and all in it exists. and continues to operate.

Religion is my personal relationship with those laws, the universe they define, and all that entails.

Church is that multinational organization that attempts to regulate and profit from my religion.

None of us can chang the functionality that is defined as God. The best we can do is learn some of the details of those laws to allow us to redefine a small region of that reality.

When any group of entities attempt to define a small segment of the laws as GOD and demand obedience to HIS laws we have RELIGION. I define evil as any attempt to ENFORCE that obedience.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Let's say you coose to believe in God, the Bible, heaven and hell, Christianity in general. If death then is indeed 'nothingness', what have you lost?

All your Chinese and Indian friends, for starters.

 

[The_old_man]

Edited for dual post.

 

[sweetnpetite]

--And when you die and find out that God thinks the Bible and Christianity are blasphemous and offensive, so will you. It isn't just an either-or, hon. That's why Pascal's Wager (believe in Christianity because there's no penalty for not) doesn't work. There could be numerous penalties for believing what you do.

Of course, that's assuming God's enough of a jerk to torture people for eternity. I don't think any God exists that would have a hell. It's a human revenge fantasy that's been dogmatized. So you're safe if I'm right.

But if I'm wrong and Allah was the right God and you blasphemed him by saying he had a son and the Quran wasn't his word, you're in a heap of trouble.

This is blasphemy, but I truely feel that God cares less about what we believe, and more about what we do. And if it's the other way around, he's no God that diserves my respect anyway.

...waiting for lighting...

...not yet...

 

[dr_mabeuse]

This is blasphemy, but I truely feel that God cares less about what we believe, and more about what we do. And if it's the other way around, he's no God that diserves my respect anyway.

...waiting for lighting...

...not yet...

No lightning. You're absolutely right.

If God is so petty that he sends people to hell for being homo or fucking or smoking dope, then He can just kiss my ass, and you can tell Him I said so.

Any God who's so hateful isn't worth anyone's respect. Any religion that deals in fear is bullshit by definition.

And if He doesn't like it, He knows where he can find me.

 

[cantdog]

I grew up in a conservative Southern religious environment. I eventually went to college and got out of my "shelter," beginning to see what the rest of the world was like, in some ways shocked, in others intrigued. It's a pretty common epiphany for many, I think.

My beliefs and views today are very different than they were as a teenager and early adult. Unfortunately, many of my life choices were based on beliefs I held then, and it creates major conflicts and struggles in my personal life that I deal with to this day.

That's another story altogether, for another time.

I ultimately believe in God from a logic standpoint, just as an atheist or agnostic reasons from their side that there is not a God, or that it is impossible for us to know if there is one. Ultimately, in the chain of the universe, however it was created, there has to be a point of beginning. Something, or some one, had to be present at that beginning. Something/someone has to be responsible for setting it all in motion. I consider that enough evidence of a God for me, although I see how someone can use that same line of reasoning the other direction.

I have no reason to doubt the message of Christ, and still adhere to it, although I'm really bad at it. Part of my belief is that we're not expected to be good at it, which was the whole point of the message, which is where I diverge with many I used to go to church with (I generally do not attend regularly).

As far as prayer goes, I think it's disingenous to implore God to give me what I want. I do think prayers for guidance and for serenity are well-intended and well-received.

Some of the greatest spiritual times I've had (and have) are when I climb a mountain to some awesome vista, find a rock to sit on, look out on the world in wonderment, and clear my head. I'm able to sit and contemplate and really sort things out in my head when I'm troubled; what I should do, what shouldn't I do.

That's my spiritual time, and really what prayer has come to mean to me.

I am impressed with your directness of expression, Hurricane. Welcome to the AH.

I think my deafness to the voice of God is because I'm not a descendant of Adam.l If you read the Adam story, it's quite clear. There had to have been, already, other people, both in Nod and elsewhere, at the time the Adam creation took place. I think only descendants of that special creation, can feel the Presence.

For me, the world is free of God, utterly wiothout Him. I contemplate it and feel no whiff of Him. I consider the principles of the world, and am glad to sense no hint of Him.

And yet, there are those who see and feel Him in every breath. Who are constantly aware of God in their experience of His creation.

Not me. I guess I must have been one of the other people. A descendant of the human beings who surrounded Adam and Eve. The wives of Cain and Abel and the spouses of their other kids. The inhabitants of Nod and the settlements referred to as "east of Eden." Not one of the people descended from the special, individual, creation of Jehovah, but rather of the usual, ordinary human stock.

Because I lack the sense others seem to have of the Divine Presence in All Things. To me, on the contrary, there appears absolutely no evidence of God. I see only the natural, never the supernatural. I see amazing variety and wonderful detail, but little Cause or Meaning, and as far as I can see, you can go ahead and transcend, while I merely walk, and I'll get where I'm going, while you may or may not. Transcending seems meaningless and there is no supernatural.

I do fine without God. I love people, people seem to love me. What the fuck? I don't have to hate homos, I don't have to feel like I was born with Original Sin. I can behold a baby without feeling it needs to be Saved in some way. For me, a baby is blameless. But you can see it as evil and in need of redemption if you like; that's fine. I got no heartache with that. Just don't start burning the rest of us at the stake or otherwise torturing us to death for heresy, okay?