Someone explain to me

[Saint_Ann]

In my state Democrats won 54.37% of the 2024 statewide vote but hold 82.35% of seats (14 of 17). Lol.

And there are a lot of pissed off voters.

 

[HisArpy]

And there are a lot of ... voters grumbling impotently under their breath.

Fixed.

 

[Saint_Ann]

Fixed.

I dunno. I haven't seen it this grumbly in a very long time.

 

[HisArpy]

I dunno. I haven't seen it this grumbly in a very long time.

And come November the same bunch of lib nincompoops will be reelected because the grumblers won't show up to vote.

 

[Saint_Ann]

And come November the same bunch of lib nincompoops will be reelected because the grumblers won't show up to vote.

It's a Chicago thing.

 

[HisArpy]

It's a Chicago thing.

That doesn't mean it's a good idea. Just like putting chili on spaghetti isn't a good idea.

 

[Hel_Books]

Hel_Books said:
And they tell you a barista making a living wage will bring the free market system to disaster while billionaires not paying taxes is no big thing.

The value of what your contribution to society is thru your labors has a direct bearing on your expected compensation. It's not exactly a participation trophy.

Indeed! But I was pointing out that when billionaires avoid paying taxes (or when they squeeze the wages of the less fortunate) they are most definitely NOT contributing to society!

 

[Saint_Ann]

Indeed! But I was pointing out that when billionaires avoid paying taxes (or when they squeeze the wages of the less fortunate) they are most definitely NOT contributing to society!

What about trickle down?
Hence the Trump quote about the system is broken.

 

[Hel_Books]

Hel_Books said:
Indeed! But I was pointing out that when billionaires avoid paying taxes (or when they squeeze the wages of the less fortunate) they are most definitely NOT contributing to society!

What about trickle down?
Hence the Trump quote about the system is broken.

Except Trump is breaking the parts of your system that actually work. Or worked before he came along.

 

[Saint_Ann]

Except Trump is breaking the parts of your system that actually work. Or worked before he came along.

Tariffs? What parts?

 

[Hel_Books]

Hel_Books said:
Except Trump is breaking the parts of your system that actually work. Or worked before he came along.

Tariffs? What parts?

Wasn't the whole idea off GATT and the WTO that free trade brought prosperity (which it did) and protectionism causes economic chaos (as we've seen).

The economy of the USA left everyone else in the dust over the last half century (remember when the Japanese were going to be the kings of the hill?). Trump is looking to kill that and maybe cede economic leadership to China.

 

[Saint_Ann]

Wasn't the whole idea off GATT and the WTO that free trade brought prosperity (which it did) and protectionism causes economic chaos (as we've seen).

The economy of the USA left everyone else in the dust over the last half century (remember when the Japanese were going to be the kings of the hill?). Trump is looking to kill that and maybe cede economic leadership to China.

It was certainly good for Germany and SKorea. The results aren't in.

 

[briancamdudetenger2018]

lol lol well wwe hall of famer donnie j trump has i guess side jobs thats how he has tons of dough

 

[Hel_Books]

Hel_Books said:
Wasn't the whole idea off GATT and the WTO that free trade brought prosperity (which it did) and protectionism causes economic chaos (as we've seen).

The economy of the USA left everyone else in the dust over the last half century (remember when the Japanese were going to be the kings of the hill?). Trump is looking to kill that and maybe cede economic leadership to China.

It was certainly good for Germany and SKorea. The results aren't in.

In comparison, the USA economy has done quite well.
USA per capita GDP increased from $12,575 in 1980 to $90,026 in 2025
Germany's increased from $12,182 to $60,496
South Korea's increased from $1,745 to $36,227

 

[Saint_Ann]

In comparison, the USA economy has done quite well.
USA per capita GDP increased from $12,575 in 1980 to $90,026 in 2025
Germany's increased from $12,182 to $60,496
South Korea's increased from $1,745 to $36,227

"Most economic analyses conclude that the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) had only a modest direct impact on the overall US per capita GDP, adding roughly $400 per person annually. While US per-capita GDP grew significantly following the agreement, economists attribute this growth primarily to broader technological advancements and general domestic economic policy rather than the trade deal alone."

 

[Hel_Books]

Hel_Books said:
In comparison, the USA economy has done quite well.
USA per capita GDP increased from $12,575 in 1980 to $90,026 in 2025
Germany's increased from $12,182 to $60,496
South Korea's increased from $1,745 to $36,227

"Most economic analyses conclude that the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) had only a modest direct impact on the overall US per capita GDP, adding roughly $400 per person annually. While US per-capita GDP grew significantly following the agreement, economists attribute this growth primarily to broader technological advancements and general domestic economic policy rather than the trade deal alone."

If you'll read my earlier posts, you'll see I was referring to the GATT and WTO. But you're right, free trade agreements among North American nations did contribute.

Technological advances and economic policy did have a part in everybody's economic progress, but when I wrote that free trade brought prosperity to the USA, you wrote, "It was certainly good for Germany and SKorea." By that omission, did you mean free trade DIDN'T benefit the USA?

By the numbers, it does appear that the USA did quite well through free trade. Trump's tariffs look to take your country, and the world economy, backwards.

 

[Saint_Ann]

If you'll read my earlier posts, you'll see I was referring to the GATT and WTO. But you're right, free trade agreements among North American nations did contribute.

Technological advances and economic policy did have a part in everybody's economic progress, but when I wrote that free trade brought prosperity to the USA, you wrote, "It was certainly good for Germany and SKorea." By that omission, did you mean free trade DIDN'T benefit the USA?

By the numbers, it does appear that the USA did quite well through free trade. Trump's tariffs look to take your country, and the world economy, backwards.

Won't know the results for years.

 

[Hel_Books]

Hel_Books said:
If you'll read my earlier posts, you'll see I was referring to the GATT and WTO. But you're right, free trade agreements among North American nations did contribute.

Technological advances and economic policy did have a part in everybody's economic progress, but when I wrote that free trade brought prosperity to the USA, you wrote, "It was certainly good for Germany and SKorea." By that omission, did you mean free trade DIDN'T benefit the USA?

By the numbers, it does appear that the USA did quite well through free trade. Trump's tariffs look to take your country, and the world economy, backwards.

Won't know the results for years.

If you make your policies go backwards, it stands to reason your economic numbers will go backwards too. You're ALREADY seeing higher inflation.

 

[Saint_Ann]

If you make your policies go backwards, it stands to reason your economic numbers will go backwards too. You're ALREADY seeing higher inflation.

Like I said, the impact won't be known for years.

 

[Hel_Books]

Hel_Books said:
If you make your policies go backwards, it stands to reason your economic numbers will go backwards too. You're ALREADY seeing higher inflation.

Like I said, the impact won't be known for years.

Which years? You're already seeing it in 2026.

 

[Saint_Ann]

Which years? You're already seeing it in 2026.

A snapshot. We're 2 years into a brand new economic policy.

 

[ll74]

Everyone knows it takes six years for a new economic policy to show itself.

Unless things are amazing.....then the new policy is the reason.

 

[Hel_Books]

Hel_Books said:
Which years? You're already seeing it in 2026.

A snapshot. We're 2 years into a brand new economic policy.

It's not really a "policy," is it? I mean, tariffs on penguins in Heard and McDonald Islands, business contracts for friends and family and nations that can afford bribes like a 747, threatening to arrest Federal Reserve Board governors if they don't give the economy a sugar rush of irresponsible rate reductions, cutting government programs at random (like the people who monitor screwworm infestations), pardons for medicare swindlers, tossing out the immigrants who work on construction sites, in meatpacking plants and pick your vegetables and mop your floors, starting a failed war that does nothing but raise the price of petrol (and everything else). . .

 

[Rightguide]

That is very insightful and it describes a lot about Trump supporters. It is why they vehemently defend his tax cuts that benefit the top 0.5% of the country and corporations while screwing the rest of us. They really believe their ship gonna come in,where it is the lottery or some scam that think they can pull, and they don't want to pay taxes either...what makes this ever more ironic is that tax policy often ends up putting more tax burden on these people ( so they have less to save or invest ) and also incentivizes companies to send operations overseas , costing jobs galore.

Then we have Trump's behavior. Some like the fascist Catholic bishops in the US say things like ' well, his behavior at times leaves something to be desired, but vote for him because he has given us our great victory on abortion and being anti LGBT,which really is what being Catholic is about' , but with 99% of maga, it is that they love he is so nasty and scummy, bc they basically feel like that is how they would act as president.

Anyone remember a time not long ago when the GOP decried the courseness of society, complained about foul language on tv, complained about how morally society has stepped down, sexual cruelty, and usually blamed liberals from promoting that,as opposed to the party of family values? Gee, that is a gigantic silence with trump, isn't it? Not only does the party stay silent, they emulate him. So much for the religious right being all so holy holy, that is for sure, they are proof of what Madison said about collusion between politics and religion and corruption.

~groan~

Your argument collapses under the weight of its own absolutes. A tax package containing provisions for tipped employees, overtime workers, and other middle-income taxpayers cannot honestly be described as benefiting 'only the top 0.5%.' You may argue that the wealthy benefit more, or that the policy is fiscally unsound, but 'only' is a phony political slogan, not an economic fact.

 

[MajorRewrite]

If it takes years to see the economic results of government actions, then the inflation of 2022 must have been the result of actions taken in the first Trump term.

BB is too dense to think through his statements. A true RockHead.