Strickly online D/s relationships...discuss, share advise

[Iamsubmissive]

This goes back to Racy.
And her comments.


This submissive "shame" that I'm reading here lately, well, I don't have that. Yay!!!

Why do we, as submissives, feel the need to list our resumes as some sort or qualifier? I'm submissive, BUT... yadda yadda Masters Degree, yadda yadda 6 figures, yadda yadda, see my cape flapping behind me?

Yes. I've done it, too.
No more.

I'm independent, strong, bla bla bla, too. Submission does not mean I'm not. It means I allow him to have that. That I trust him to have that. Knowing that I am still that, even while I'm deeply submitting.

I had a problem with the label before I actually experienced it. Now that I have, I have no problem with it. I know more who I am now than I ever have.

As for others who may see me as less than, that is their Fucking problem. Not mine.

I love that you posted this! Seems a lot of others did too. Yay you! I bolded my favorite part because I think it was very well said.

 

[Iamsubmissive]

However, I'm stubborn. Argumentative. Independent. Etc etc. It's these personality traits that make submission sooo much better. (For me) Finding a man who can strip away all those layers until I'm undeniably submissive is a wonderful thing.

I like this too!

 

[Primalex]

“It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.”
― Terry Pratchett, Jingo

 

[barefootgirl69]

I love that you posted this! Seems a lot of others did too. Yay you! I bolded my favorite part because I think it was very well said.

I know! To think I wasted my breath trying to make this point with RacyWilde and the confusing manner in which it came across in her post that submissives are weak. Next time, I'm hiring Farawyn!

Now, about this "submissives really are in charge/have control" thing that seems to permeate Literotica... let's discuss, please.

I am not of that mind. I had this discussion with someone yesterday afternoon. Why do gentlemen hold to this notion? Just because we can talk about boundaries does not mean I am in charge or in control. I have stated my opinion, stated where I stand, and still want him to be in charge and in control... (that's what I hired him for!! *laughing*) ahem... anyway. My Daddy and I talk, he knows what I'm not comfortable with or ready for, and he also knows that I trust him to bring those things up again, to explore, to develop.

Trust means I can fully submit to him without reservation. So, why reserve a part of control, then?

Just my thoughts.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Ed27R]

Reading this conversation makes me think that one of the problems with these labels is that we try and use them or have people use them against us to describe an individual. I think most of our experience has been that that label really only exists in the interaction of at least one other person. You can't be dominant or submissive on an island by yourself - it is a state of being in relation to someone else. In that way I think it is totally conceivable that you could be any combination of personality traits and still be submissive or dominate. Sure - there are likely some traits more or less likely to emerge - but again the label is less about the individual and more about the individual in the relationship.

And, I think that this leads to further confusion as people take something like submission or dominance from a moment of time to imply wider reaching labels of themselves. But, the label in my mind really only works in a longer term arch - where you stop maybe just playing a role in a given moment to being dominant or submissive from moment to moment to moment... which requires a lot of trust, respect, patience and self control. And, hopefully fun too.

 

[Iamsubmissive]

That's what I feel too.

Why does feeling 'not' sub suggest shame? Or self exploration? In fact, I implied quite the contrary. I felt it very disrespectful in this space to say sub to people who are when it's not who I feel I am.

Some have mused that it might not be a good practical term for them.

Something I fail to understand is why in a place it's safe to express love differently it's only ok witbdomd oc we express in ways they appreciate if their protocol of their philosophy or do on.

Why should shame go in any direction here?

I don't think there was any actual shaming...just that some people choose not to associate themselves with the label because of the negative assumptions others make regarding that grouping.

It is fine if you don't feel that label fits for you. But when you do feel it fits but are reluctant to use it because of what other people think...that's kinda where I 'shame' aspect comes in, I think.

 

[Iamsubmissive]

“It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.”
― Terry Pratchett, Jingo

How long have you been waiting to drop that quote? It made me laugh because it somehow makes sense here...

 

[barefootgirl69]

“It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.”
― Terry Pratchett, Jingo

How long have you been waiting to drop that quote? It made me laugh because it somehow makes sense here...

This reminds me of this song...

https://youtu.be/E5RDEXpc8OY

 

[TheSilverLining]

This is why I like PYL/pyl. Massively open to interpretation, innit?

 

[Iamsubmissive]

Reading this conversation makes me think that one of the problems with these labels is that we try and use them or have people use them against us to describe an individual. I think most of our experience has been that that label really only exists in the interaction of at least one other person. You can't be dominant or submissive on an island by yourself - it is a state of being in relation to someone else. In that way I think it is totally conceivable that you could be any combination of personality traits and still be submissive or dominate. Sure - there are likely some traits more or less likely to emerge - but again the label is less about the individual and more about the individual in the relationship.

And, I think that this leads to further confusion as people take something like submission or dominance from a moment of time to imply wider reaching labels of themselves. But, the label in my mind really only works in a longer term arch - where you stop maybe just playing a role in a given moment to being dominant or submissive from moment to moment to moment... which requires a lot of trust, respect, patience and self control. And, hopefully fun too.

Those are good points too...maybe where some of the confusion comes in. But also, it could be 'who someone is'. Meaning, it's not really dependant on a counterpart. You could be submissive but have no one to submit to. Or dominant, just without a partner to dominate at the moment. I think the biggest qualifier is how you view yourself...

 

[Primalex]

How long have you been waiting to drop that quote?

Way too long.

 

[Primalex]

To elaborate:

Fighting stereotypes seems to me a bad investment of time and energy. There are just way too many. I mean, you can spend hours argueing that you are not a "typical submissive" and then people can still think that you can't park your car properly because you are a woman.

There are always stereotypes someone will fulfill and there are always some someone will not fulfill. I like naked women, barbecue, fast cars and I have always hair on my chest. I don't drink alcohol, not even socially. How much time and energy should I invest in trying to teach people that I'm just not the typical male because I don't drink?

 

[Farawyn]

“It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.”
― Terry Pratchett, Jingo

 

[Farawyn]

That's what I feel too.

Why does feeling 'not' sub suggest shame? Or self exploration? In fact, I implied quite the contrary. I felt it very disrespectful in this space to say sub to people who are when it's not who I feel I am.

Some have mused that it might not be a good practical term for them.

Something I fail to understand is why in a place it's safe to express love differently it's only ok witbdomd oc we express in ways they appreciate if their protocol of their philosophy or do on.

Why should shame go in any direction here?

If you read my first sentence, I was speaking of Racy, and how she was interpreted by a few of us.
But yea. I got that feeling from a few others posting here.
My thoughts stand.

 

[PleasePeesMe]

Absolutely right

This goes back to Racy.
And her comments.


This submissive "shame" that I'm reading here lately, well, I don't have that. Yay!!!

Why do we, as submissives, feel the need to list our resumes as some sort or qualifier? I'm submissive, BUT... yadda yadda Masters Degree, yadda yadda 6 figures, yadda yadda, see my cape flapping behind me?

Yes. I've done it, too.
No more.

I'm independent, strong, bla bla bla, too. Submission does not mean I'm not. It means I allow him to have that. That I trust him to have that. Knowing that I am still that, even while I'm deeply submitting.

I had a problem with the label before I actually experienced it. Now that I have, I have no problem with it. I know more who I am now than I ever have.

As for others who may see me as less than, that is their Fucking problem. Not mine.

I think some people read "submissive" and think "weak". Not true at all, in my opinion.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[cookiecat]

As a lot of folks have said -- labels are a starting point for conversations. Hopefully, as the conversation progresses, we get to know each other beyond the labels. If we don't, we don't progress.

For me, defining myself as submissive flows through my whole life. Not just my sex life. Not just for the one guy. It's allowed me to make some space for feeling softer, more feminine, vulnerable.

My definition of being submissive is centered around service. Putting someone else's needs before mine makes me feel better. Sure, in the bedroom, it's about obedience and getting him off and letting him tie me up and do fun, weird stuff.

In day to day life, thinking of myself as submissive is about making the effort be a better listener, quieter, taking time to think before I speak or act.... these are relatively new ideas for me!! Discovering submission, defining myself as submissive led me to this new, more thoughtful, calmer place. It doesn't always work. I'm still selfish and reactionary. Chaotic. Loud.

Before anyone rolls their eyes and calls bullshit, this is just how it works for me.

Maybe it's cliche. Maybe I would've figured this stuff out without the label of submissive. But it all came together at the same time - the discovery of bdsm, realizing i wanted more than bedroom kink. It felt really good when I started to blend the crazy, loud, glittery, usually in charge, independent woman I grew up to be with this softer, quieter, more collaborative and deliberate person I was discovering.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Farawyn]

We have mostly been respectful, yes. Sticking to one's guns does not indicate disrespect.
I certainly don't feel that way about you or Meek or whomever.

I'm speaking of the need to follow up I'm submissive with a BUT... strong woman, in charge...
I do it, too.
I'm trying not to anymore. I love being submissive. It's made me stronger as a woman. As a person.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[RubenesqueAphrodite]

We have mostly been respectful, yes. Sticking to one's guns does not indicate disrespect.
I certainly don't feel that way about you or Meek or whomever.

I'm speaking of the need to follow up I'm submissive with a BUT... strong woman, in charge...
I do it, too.
I'm trying not to anymore. I love being submissive. It's made me stronger as a woman. As a person.

but!!!!!!
Just kidding..

 

[barefootgirl69]

I know! To think I wasted my breath trying to make this point with RacyWilde and the confusing manner in which it came across in her post that submissives are weak. Next time, I'm hiring Farawyn!

Now, about this "submissives really are in charge/have control" thing that seems to permeate Literotica... let's discuss, please.

I am not of that mind. I had this discussion with someone yesterday afternoon. Why do gentlemen hold to this notion? Just because we can talk about boundaries does not mean I am in charge or in control. I have stated my opinion, stated where I stand, and still want him to be in charge and in control... (that's what I hired him for!! *laughing*) ahem... anyway. My Daddy and I talk, he knows what I'm not comfortable with or ready for, and he also knows that I trust him to bring those things up again, to explore, to develop.

Trust means I can fully submit to him without reservation. So, why reserve a part of control, then?

Just my thoughts.

Did no one have any thoughts on this?

Or am I being ignored ... I may have to go to that Playground thread 'what I hate about Lit' or something or other. I really should pay attention to thread titles.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Farawyn]

but!!!!!!
Just kidding..

*shows you my butt*
BUT, it's not like you haven't seen it. My butt.