Swinger's Clubs?

[CuriousnFun4650]

Baila, I have said as much to her. Like I said, it has been an ongoing issue. It gets better for a few months after we talk, and then we are right back in the rut. I am tired of being the only one working to improve our sex life. Yes, I have told her this is her last chance.

Now that I have made that clear to her, she is willing to try new things like the swinger's clubs, threesomes and exploring in our bedroom. With any luck this won't be another temporary change.

 

[carlieplum]

I'm posting as a married woman who went through a period of low libido to having, as my partner put it recently, "a second honeymoon," except that things are better and hotter in the bedroom than they were during our first honeymoon. We got there through communication, love, trust, and both of us working to figure out what the other person wanted and needed and then delivering it.

I can tell you that your approach, which is selfish, self-centered and seems to take your wife into account not at all except as a device for you to get your rocks off, is destined for failure. Either check your headspace and figure out what YOU can do to make things better or go ahead and hit the road. Do not pass swinger's club, do not collect $200.

Really, you expect to say to your wife, "Either fuck me more or I'm leaving you?" and have that lead to greater feelings of trust and intimacy, which are fundamental to a good marital sex life? Well, I can't imagine why she doesn't want to jump in the sack with you...

 

[carlieplum]

It's up to her now. She knows what she needs to do to keep me fulfilled and I'm willing to help her get there.

Do you know what YOU need to do to keep HER fulfilled? Are you working to get there? I would be willing to bet your me, me, me attitude extends to other aspects of your marriage and would go a long way toward explaining why she doesn't want to do anything for you or with you. Because it sounds like you are all about what YOU need as a person and not what YOU as a couple need. Couples who care about each others' needs--married or not--are much more likely to have happy sex lives.

I really can't imagine how you don't see that hanging a threat over your wife's head that "either you fuck me x number of times a week or I'll leave you" is not really going to get her in the mood to have rocking hot sex with you. You are shooting yourself in the foot, buddy.

 

[bailadora]

Baila, I have said as much to her. Like I said, it has been an ongoing issue. It gets better for a few months after we talk, and then we are right back in the rut. I am tired of being the only one working to improve our sex life. Yes, I have told her this is her last chance.

And have you made any effort to find out why you guys fall back into the rut? Have you considered that maybe there's something she wants/needs/desires that you're not giving her? Maybe there's something she's holding back from you because she's afraid to hurt your feelings, afraid you'll be angry with her or that you will judge her.

It's very easy to let ego get in the way and place the blame on the other person (BTDT). It's much more difficult to admit to our own shortcomings and how they may contribute to a given situation. I know this because it was a hard lesson both my husband and I had to learn.

Dude - you are not going to improve this situation by bringing in other people. The only way that will happen is getting to the source of the problem through open and honest communication from both of you. Since it sounds like you haven't been able to get there on your own, I'd urge you to consider couples counseling if you are serious about wanting to save your marriage.

 

[SweetErika]

Dude - you are not going to improve this situation by bringing in other people. The only way that will happen is getting to the source of the problem through open and honest communication from both of you. Since it sounds like you haven't been able to get there on your own, I'd urge you to consider couples counseling if you are serious about wanting to save your marriage.

I'm seriously doubting the OP has any intention of saving his marriage. No one who truly wants to work on their marriage pushes their spouse into swinging or threesomes, especially in the face of strong advice from people in the lifestyle and sex-positive community. My guess is he's wanted to try swinging and threesomes for quite a while, and this just seems like an opportune time to throw a temper tantrum in an attempt to get his way. It reminds me of our toddler, who seeks out opportunities to push buttons and throw fits when we appear vulnerable.

If the OP's wife is wise, she'll insist on therapy or show him right to the door.

 

[hapigirl]

Baila, I have said as much to her. Like I said, it has been an ongoing issue. It gets better for a few months after we talk, and then we are right back in the rut. I am tired of being the only one working to improve our sex life. Yes, I have told her this is her last chance.

Now that I have made that clear to her, she is willing to try new things like the swinger's clubs, threesomes and exploring in our bedroom. With any luck this won't be another temporary change.

I keep telling myself to stop posting in this thread, but you are aggravating me.

How can you not see the bold section as manipulation, if not full blown emotional blackmail? It will be a temporary change because she is doing it for you and not for herself.

What if she does go to the club and experiments and finds new things she likes, but still only wants sex occasionally? What if she finds out she likes sex, but she doesn't like you? As I said in my first post, swingers do cheat, so there is always the risk she will find an emotional connection with someone who treats her better than you.

I really can't imagine how you don't see that hanging a threat over your wife's head that "either you fuck me x number of times a week or I'll leave you" is not really going to get her in the mood to have rocking hot sex with you.

I agree, I can't imagine it either, but I have enough self-respect to open the door and show him the way out.

You have been given good advice in this thread. I can only hope you will read it again and take it seriously.

 

[pplwatching]

Like I said, it has been an ongoing issue. It gets better for a few months after we talk, and then we are right back in the rut. I am tired of being the only one working to improve our sex life. Yes, I have told her this is her last chance.

It seems like there's really a number of different issues being talked about here ; communication, intimacy, sex, and your desire for multiple sexual partners. Setting aside the last one for a moment, it's not uncommon to find that problems in the others can lead to feelings frustration, hurt, and a breakdown in the relationship.

Marriage is a commitment to constantly make a good faith effort to meet the needs of the person we love. Most people find that by lovingly encouraging their spouse to also meet their own needs a balance can be achieved that makes both people happy and fulfilled. By constantly striving to meet each other's needs the marriage can flourish. When one person begins to put their own wants, desires, and needs before and ahead of their lover's then the marriage becomes unhealthy.

You write that when you talk to your wife she makes an effort to meet your needs. In my humble experience communication is a constant and ongoing process. If you are only sporadically communicating about this issue and regularly finding yourself falling back into a rut, then perhaps changing the way that you address the problem might yield better results. Consistent positive reinforcement can help keep the momentum going without making the problem feel a constant drag on the marriage. I'm specifically referring to little things like letting her know that you love her, desire her, and appreciate the effort that she's making. This can range from doing the laundry to telling her things like "I really like how much more connected I feel to you lately" and "I really appreciate how willing you've been to work on our marriage." Don't underestimate the power of compliments compared to criticism.

The other side of the balance in your marriage is looking at what you are doing to meet her needs. It can be tempting but very dangerous to address problems in your relationship by focusing on the needs of only one person, either hers or yours. There are naturally times when physical intimacy is not possible, such as health problems, but in general a healthy intimate relationship is generally good for the overall health of the marriage. That said, it's important consider what healthy means, what she wants and needs, and what is good for your marriage. How you can you meet those needs? When you have talked to her about your needs, have you asked her how you can better meet hers?

Now that I have made that clear to her, she is willing to try new things like the swinger's clubs, threesomes and exploring in our bedroom. With any luck this won't be another temporary change.

Try to look carefully at the implications of what you are insisting on. Consider how it meets her needs and the needs of your marriage as a whole. IMHO as others have said it's unreasonable to expect new sexual experiences to "fix" problems in your marriage. In addition there is a very real chance that by making this ultimatum you are forcing the woman that you profess to love to accept something that may violate her morals, conscience, and her dignity. She may very well do this to make you happy. That kind of dedication is rare and has a very high price. In exchange for that kind of power over her it is your responsibility and obligation to be cognizant of how this will affect her. Is using her commitment to you to force her to swing meeting her needs, in her best interest, and in the best interest of your marriage? If the answer is no then that should tell you that this is a very bad idea.

If you fail to address your wife's needs and force her to do something that she fundamental doesn't want to do, but will do "to save her marriage", you will exacerbate the problems in your marriage and most likely damage it beyond repair.

 

[CuriousnFun4650]

I don't think you people are getting it. I have wined and dined her, I have talked and talked to her about what she wants and I what I want, I have asked her to initiate more, I have begged, I have listened to her and given her what she has asked me for. I have tried everything and it never lasts for more than a few months tops.

I don't think I am asking for too much.

 

[funcouple2505]

I don't think you people are getting it. I have wined and dined her, I have talked and talked to her about what she wants and I what I want, I have asked her to initiate more, I have begged, I have listened to her and given her what she has asked me for. I have tried everything and it never lasts for more than a few months tops.

I don't think I am asking for too much.

I get it. Like another poster said - me, me, me. That's all you're saying the entire time. I, I, I and me, me, me. My husband I have been there - and back. We're still in marriage counseling, and doing wonderfully. We enjoy swing clubs - because we BOTH agree to go, not because he gave me the ultimatum of "go, have sex more, or it's divorce". BUT, I should point out, that we FIRST improved our communication and our own intimacy BEFORE going to the swing club and BEFORE initiating anything at all - sexual or otherwise - with any other person or couple. So, like I said, I think I get it. You are a selfish ass.

 

[Eilan]

I don't think you people are getting it.

I think people are getting it just fine.

You wanted validation. Instead you got solid advice from people who have actually been there and done that. Because it wasn't what you wanted to hear, you got all butthurt. People like you are a dime a dozen on this forum.

If anyone's not getting it, it's you.

 

[Kikori]

I get it. Like another poster said - me, me, me. That's all you're saying the entire time. I, I, I and me, me, me.

Now, now, give him at least a little credit. He did mention that he's talked to her about what she and he wants, and given her what she's asked for.
I just doubt he realizes what she's asked of him was likely not a one-time quick fix. Or that a one-time deal of giving her a little attention does not equate to how much he wants form her. Or that his rut is probably self-induced by a spiral of not paying attention to her, causing her to withdraw from him. Or that trying to justify his behaviors probably assists to her understandable withdrawal from him.

 

[bailadora]

I don't think you people are getting it.

I don't think YOU are getting it. Just because you're talking doesn't mean you (either of you) are effectively communicating. Straight up - why do you refuse to even consider counseling?

 

[Eilan]

I don't think YOU are getting it. Just because you're talking doesn't mean you (either of you) are effectively communicating. Straight up - why do you refuse to even consider counseling?

Pffft. . . why should he get counseling when his wife is the one with the problem?

 

[indyguy78]

I see him guilting her to go then getting mad if she does anything there to make him happy. Some people don't even get a once a week romp if I were her and seen this you probably wouldn't get any. I do hope your a troll and not serious though.

I do think you should google ultimatum.

"I don't see what I'm asking for as an ultimatum, either."

"I am talking to her about it. It's an open dialogue, but it's also not negotiable for me anymore."

"Yes, I have told her this is her last chance."

 

[bailadora]

I do think you should google ultimatum.

"I don't see what I'm asking for as an ultimatum, either."

"I am talking to her about it. It's an open dialogue, but it's also not negotiable for me anymore."

"Yes, I have told her this is her last chance."

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

(Sorry - I couldn't help myself.)

 

[pplwatching]

......

 

[CuriousnFun4650]

We have gone to counseling on three separate occasions. It works short-term and then we fall back into old habits. She doesn't make permanent changes and I get frustrated and give up. She makes short term changes to keep me happy.

I am cynical about changes working this time. It is why I am saying that this is her last chance. The changes need to stick because she wants a better life or we will find that better life without each other.

Funcouple, if you are still in marriage counseling then you can hardly harp on me for marriage issues. You are not able to say your changes will stick yet. According to many in this thread if you are in counseling then you should not be going to swinger's clubs. According to them your relationship is not 100% solid and you bring drama to the club. Before you come in here and judge me or my marriage, give it 6-8 months and see if you are still doing wonderfully.

We are trying to improve communication. I am not able to be as optimistic as I once was because I see the cycle.

 

[Riles]

You are not able to say your changes will stick yet. According to many in this thread if you are in counseling then you should not be going to swinger's clubs. According to them your relationship is not 100% solid and you bring drama to the club.

We are trying to improve communication. I am not able to be as optimistic as I once was because I see the cycle.

Lit is like anything else, you have to be able to look past the b.s. for the truth. What people are saying for the most part does ring true. However, nobody I have ever met in the swingers lifestyle EVER truly said they had a perfect marriage, and that swinging was the bi-product of that perfect unity.

What I/we are getting caught up on is that you seem to feel the only issues that need work in your marriage is the amount/frequency with which you have sex with your wife. Anybody who's been married is calling BULL on that one.

Sex is the first thing that goes out the window when other problems come in the door.

If all else IS golden, then perhaps she really IS suffering from some kind of chemical/hormonal imbalance, and you should encourage her to get checked out.

Beyond that, maybe the writing is on the wall. Maybe you two have just grown apart and need to face facts. If that's the case, no amount of foot stomping, wooing, cajoling is going to solve it. You need to sit down and have an honest heart to heart and let things take their natural course.

 

[pplwatching]

I think I may be guilty of misreading your most recent posts. On the one hand you are talking about rebuilding communication and intimacy in your marriage, and trying to get to a better place. Where I may have misunderstood you is that you seem to have also said that extramarital sex is a non negotiable part of this final attempt to save your marriage. If I haven't misread your posts, then you are essentially demanding an open marriage whether she wants it or not. The alternative is divorce. Those kinds of demands have no place in a loving relationship. If you are instead only saying that re-establishing sexual intimacy is non negotiable, then I apologize for connecting too many dots.

There are a lot of reasons that sexual desire fades. Some of which are physiological (age, hormones, etc). Others have to do with her satisfaction with the marriage and how connected she feels to you. It seems rare that a woman's lack of interest in sex can be overcome by introducing more sexual partners. It is a cruel twist of nature that often men need sex so feel more connected to their partners, while women need to feel connected to their partners in order to want to have sex. The trick is finding a way to lovingly work from both ends.

Personally, I feel that expecting extra marital sex to somehow rekindle her interest in sex is very misguided and will lead to more problems. During times of trouble in the marriage we need to circle the wagons, not take big risks that can add jealousy and hurt to the mix.

Anyone who's ever been through sexual issues in marriage knows there's ups, downs, good days, and bad days. Sometimes in marriage we become creatures of habit and the habits that got us to the rough patch die hard. In my own personal experience it helped me to know that I wanted to be married to my wife. I just didn't want the feelings that came from being in a sexless marriage. That gave me the motivation to keep trying even in the face of very difficult set backs. One of the things that I have learned is that it's unreasonable to expect things to stay fixed. It takes constant and loving attention to avoid falling back into the same old habits. Some people find that date nights work, a time that can be set aside to talk about the marriage and be a couple. Other people find that penciling sex into the weekly calendar along with little daily sexy love notes can lead to a sense of anticipation and longing for sex.

As long as I choose to remain married, the best that I can hope for is that by doing what's right for my wife and right for our marriage that things will eventually turn around. Sometimes the sacrifices and hard work pays off and sex gets better, but sometimes it doesn't. The times that it doesn't are the times that we must decide if we're willing to continue to make the effort. I have spent a lot of time communicating to my wife that sex is important and that without it I feel adrift, lonely, and hurt. I had to find a way to be sure that she didn't feel like the entire responsibility for the success or failure of our marriage was on her shoulders. By listening to her needs in turn and continually striving to meet them, I showed her that I was devoted to her and encouraged her to recommit herself to meeting my sexual needs. We have slowly regained much of our sexual momentum and are enjoying a vibrant sex life. Some of our issues were health problems that we were able to address. Some of it was mental. The trick is making sure the communication and effort goes both ways. Taking ultimatums off of the table would seem to be a good start.

We have gone to counseling on three separate occasions. It works short-term and then we fall back into old habits. She doesn't make permanent changes and I get frustrated and give up. She makes short term changes to keep me happy.

I am cynical about changes working this time. It is why I am saying that this is her last chance. The changes need to stick because she wants a better life or we will find that better life without each other.

We are trying to improve communication. I am not able to be as optimistic as I once was because I see the cycle.

 

[indyguy78]

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

(Sorry - I couldn't help myself.)

lol good movie.

 

[funcouple2505]

Funcouple, if you are still in marriage counseling then you can hardly harp on me for marriage issues. You are not able to say your changes will stick yet. According to many in this thread if you are in counseling then you should not be going to swinger's clubs. According to them your relationship is not 100% solid and you bring drama to the club. Before you come in here and judge me or my marriage, give it 6-8 months and see if you are still doing wonderfully.

Hey oblivious idiot, we've been there for quite awhile now. It's not new. And in fact, we have many friends who have been there, are still there, and even have gone BEFORE getting married! As for bringing drama anywhere - but especially a club or into other people's lives - we have never and will never. My point was, we made sure we were happy, stable, and communicating clearly and honestly with one another BEFORE we even thought about bringing anything new or anyone else into the situation. Boy, you sure are thick.

 

[funcouple2505]

Anyone who's ever been through sexual issues in marriage knows there's ups, downs, good days, and bad days. Sometimes in marriage we become creatures of habit and the habits that got us to the rough patch die hard. In my own personal experience it helped me to know that I wanted to be married to my wife. I just didn't want the feelings that came from being in a sexless marriage. That gave me the motivation to keep trying even in the face of very difficult set backs. One of the things that I have learned is that it's unreasonable to expect things to stay fixed. It takes constant and loving attention to avoid falling back into the same old habits. Some people find that date nights work, a time that can be set aside to talk about the marriage and be a couple. Other people find that penciling sex into the weekly calendar along with little daily sexy love notes can lead to a sense of anticipation and longing for sex.

As long as I choose to remain married, the best that I can hope for is that by doing what's right for my wife and right for our marriage that things will eventually turn around. Sometimes the sacrifices and hard work pays off and sex gets better, but sometimes it doesn't. The times that it doesn't are the times that we must decide if we're willing to continue to make the effort. I have spent a lot of time communicating to my wife that sex is important and that without it I feel adrift, lonely, and hurt. I had to find a way to be sure that she didn't feel like the entire responsibility for the success or failure of our marriage was on her shoulders. By listening to her needs in turn and continually striving to meet them, I showed her that I was devoted to her and encouraged her to recommit herself to meeting my sexual needs. We have slowly regained much of our sexual momentum and are enjoying a vibrant sex life. Some of our issues were health problems that we were able to address. Some of it was mental. The trick is making sure the communication and effort goes both ways. Taking ultimatums off of the table would seem to be a good start.

I LOVE the way you put this pplwatching. So very, very true. Thank you!

 

[CuriousnFun4650]

I think I may be guilty of misreading your most recent posts. On the one hand you are talking about rebuilding communication and intimacy in your marriage, and trying to get to a better place. Where I may have misunderstood you is that you seem to have also said that extramarital sex is a non negotiable part of this final attempt to save your marriage. If I haven't misread your posts, then you are essentially demanding an open marriage whether she wants it or not. The alternative is divorce. Those kinds of demands have no place in a loving relationship. If you are instead only saying that re-establishing sexual intimacy is non negotiable, then I apologize for connecting too many dots.

Anyone who's ever been through sexual issues in marriage knows there's ups, downs, good days, and bad days. Sometimes in marriage we become creatures of habit and the habits that got us to the rough patch die hard. In my own personal experience it helped me to know that I wanted to be married to my wife. I just didn't want the feelings that came from being in a sexless marriage. That gave me the motivation to keep trying even in the face of very difficult set backs. One of the things that I have learned is that it's unreasonable to expect things to stay fixed. It takes constant and loving attention to avoid falling back into the same old habits. Some people find that date nights work, a time that can be set aside to talk about the marriage and be a couple. Other people find that penciling sex into the weekly calendar along with little daily sexy love notes can lead to a sense of anticipation and longing for sex.

As long as I choose to remain married, the best that I can hope for is that by doing what's right for my wife and right for our marriage that things will eventually turn around. Sometimes the sacrifices and hard work pays off and sex gets better, but sometimes it doesn't. The times that it doesn't are the times that we must decide if we're willing to continue to make the effort. I have spent a lot of time communicating to my wife that sex is important and that without it I feel adrift, lonely, and hurt. I had to find a way to be sure that she didn't feel like the entire responsibility for the success or failure of our marriage was on her shoulders. By listening to her needs in turn and continually striving to meet them, I showed her that I was devoted to her and encouraged her to recommit herself to meeting my sexual needs. We have slowly regained much of our sexual momentum and are enjoying a vibrant sex life. Some of our issues were health problems that we were able to address. Some of it was mental. The trick is making sure the communication and effort goes both ways. Taking ultimatums off of the table would seem to be a good start.

You aren’t guilty of anything, I haven’t been clear enough on my end. I am not demanding an open marriage. The subject came up based on talks we have had about fantasies. She has a fantasy of being with another woman but she doesn’t want a full FFM, because she doesn’t want me to have sex with the other woman.

Thank you for the rest of your post, it is very helpful and it is what we have been struggling to achieve. I have found myself at the end of my rope, so I had to be clear with her that this time had to be a permanent change or I am leaving. I have to consider that we could be better apart.

Hey oblivious idiot, we've been there for quite awhile now. It's not new. And in fact, we have many friends who have been there, are still there, and even have gone BEFORE getting married! As for bringing drama anywhere - but especially a club or into other people's lives - we have never and will never. My point was, we made sure we were happy, stable, and communicating clearly and honestly with one another BEFORE we even thought about bringing anything new or anyone else into the situation. Boy, you sure are thick.

I’m not sure if I’m dealing with the female or male half of funcouple, but for you to strike back with name calling I must have struck a nerve. Am I to assume I hit too close to home? Good for you for being in counseling and it’s good you see improvement. Like I said, let’s talk again 6-8 months after the counseling has ended and see if you are still doing wonderfully. I have no way of knowing if this is your first time through the cycle of working to improve and sliding back into discontent, but I’m willing to bet it isn’t based on your above post. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Perhaps you have not gotten to the point that one person has thought or said they will leave, if not, I hope you don’t get there. If you are, perhaps you should consider not being so arrogant in your posting style, lest you become what you write.

Please read the thread again, I did not say you brought drama anywhere; it was other people in the thread. I have a hard time believing you are far enough in your counseling journey to know if you are happy, stable and communicating clearly and honestly. Those aren’t usually realized until counseling has been completed and the changes stick for the long run. It doesn’t sound as though you are there yet. You might want to believe you are there, but I think it’s more likely that you are trying to mend things in your marriage in a similar manner to my wife and me (I believe someone in this thread has an avatar to describe the situation between you and me). Perhaps you are so angry with me because you see yourselves in the description of my marriage and it causes you distress, if so, I apologize.

 

[Kikori]

but for you to strike back with name calling I must have struck a nerve.

Then allow me, the unbiased third / fourth party, to say the following.
You are a dick by your actions, an idiot for your lack of reception, a spoiled brat for your narcissim, and overall ignorant. Without knowing you whatsoever, the info you have provided tells me you deserve nothing less than a handprint on your face, a boot to the ass, and a door slammed behind you. ^_^
[/feeding the troll]

 

[CuriousnFun4650]

Then allow me, the unbiased third / fourth party, to say the following.
You are a dick by your actions, an idiot for your lack of reception, a spoiled brat for your narcissim, and overall ignorant. Without knowing you whatsoever, the info you have provided tells me you deserve nothing less than a handprint on your face, a boot to the ass, and a door slammed behind you. ^_^
[/feeding the troll]

I have no way of knowing if you are unbiased or not. I do not know anything about your personal life.

Are my words towards my wife and marriage strong, yes they are. As I said, this isn't our first time in the cycle of improvement and discontent. I am not looking to force her to do anything. She brought it up and asked me to find more information. If she decides she doesn't want to do it, that is fine, so long as we find another way to improve our marriage and sex life.

I no longer want to be a part of an apathetic marriage. I want to live, not merely exist.