Teenagers

[tolyk]

Remind me not to serve you when I have a party. (Pssst! The liquor cabinet is in the kitchen and it's unlocked.)

Or she could just come up across the border and drink legally

 

[JohnnieJohnson]

I just realized... I will adopt AHers teenagers for the summer gladly. they can camp out back and I'll feed them and clothe and entertain them... and work their little tails off between things like canoeing and beach trips and concerts.

I like slave labor, especially when I realize how much I have to do this summer.

So, you send 'em, I'll give you a vacation, lol.

I have two observations here:

1. This sounds like a proposal to revive the ancient Irish custom of "fosterage," if perhaps for a different purpose. That might not be a bad idea. Children often find it easier to hear wisdom from an adult who is not their parent.

2. The individual above who has generously made the offer (which I believe is sincere, and agree sounds kind of fun in theory, although the reality might be less so), has pasted into her signature line a verse from Bob Seger's "Night Moves." It's not this verse, though:

We werent in love, oh no, far from it
We werent searchin for some pie in the sky summit
We were just young and restless and bored
Livin by the sword
And we'd steal away every chance we could
To the backroom, to the alley or the trusty woods
I used her, she used me
But neither one cared
We were gettin our share​

 

[Stella_Omega]

If I were the parents of the girls I dated when I was a teenager, I would shoot me. Preferably pre-emptively, but in vengeance after the fact if I had missed the first chance.

Note to teenage girls: When mama tells you those boys only want one thing, listen to her! Note to mamas: When she tells you he loves her, and you find yourself going soft - stiffen up!

Or, better yet, teach your boys and your girls. Teach your teens the differences between sex for love and sex for fun. Teach them about safe sex. Let them make their own choices.

yes, you'll have to be there to pick up the pieces often enough, but that's what it's all about.

Who the fuck are we parents to tell our girls they mustn't want sex?

 

[JohnnieJohnson]

Or she could just come up across the border and drink legally

grumble, grumble, damned Canucks trying to pick the pockets of the American hospitality industry. grumble, damned hypocritical American politicians giving them the opportunity to do so. grumble grumble. damned foolish 'minor in possession' laws. Let'em get puking drunk in a safe environment, for god sakes, and learn how to do it right, early

sorry for slight theadjack

 

[JohnnieJohnson]

Or, better yet, teach your boys and your girls. Teach your teens the differences between sex for love and sex for fun. Teach them about safe sex. Let them make their own choices.

yes, you'll have to be there to pick up the pieces often enough, but that's what it's all about.

Who the fuck are we parents to tell our girls they mustn't want sex?

Well yes, there is that. On the other hand, "pick up the pieces" is exactly right, more often than not. I'll agree some balance may be required, and an approach that is a bit more subtle than my first post suggested. But part of that "balance" should include not hesitating to say, "Absolutely not, because I'm an adult and know things that you don't, and I'm thinking with my head not my genitals, and no it's not because there is anything wrong with sex per se or even young sex per se, but it is a powerful thing and you are not giving it the respect it demands, so I am going to exercise my authority and repeat: Absolutely not!"

I am curious about what our resident 19 year old thinks of that.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well yes, there is that. On the other hand, "pick up the pieces" is exactly right, more often than not. I'll agree some balance may be required, and an approach that is a bit more subtle than my first post suggested. But part of that "balance" should include not hesitating to say, "Absolutely not, because I'm an adult and know things that you don't, and I'm thinking with my head not my genitals, and no it's not because there is anything wrong with sex per se or even young sex per se, but it is a powerful thing and you are not giving it the respect it demands, so I am going to exercise my authority and repeat: Absolutely not!"

I am curious about what our resident 19 year old thinks of that.

That's the "safe" part of safe sex.

 

[FallingToFly]

I have two observations here:

1. This sounds like a proposal to revive the ancient Irish custom of "fosterage," if perhaps for a different purpose. That might not be a bad idea. Children often find it easier to hear wisdom from an adult who is not their parent.

2. The individual above who has generously made the offer (which I believe is sincere, and agree sounds kind of fun in theory, although the reality might be less so), has pasted into her signature line a verse from Bob Seger's "Night Moves." It's not this verse, though:

We werent in love, oh no, far from it
We werent searchin for some pie in the sky summit
We were just young and restless and bored
Livin by the sword
And we'd steal away every chance we could
To the backroom, to the alley or the trusty woods
I used her, she used me
But neither one cared
We were gettin our share​

At one point I had that quote, decided I liked the one I had better. And yeah, it was mostly sincere- do you know how damn hard it's going to be for me alone to accomplish a full re-doing of my house and barn?

Anyone who doesn't mind living in a tent city in the backyard (because my house is tiny) and sharing showers to conserve both time and water, I'm recruiting slave labor And I really am a good cook. Not to mention completely insane, I teach kids all sorts of strange stuff, like how, exactly, you're supposed to jump out of the top of a tree without getting killed. Or scare the neighbors without saying more than "Hi! I made blueberry muffins and had some leftover, so I thought I'd bring them to you!"

 

[JohnnieJohnson]

That's the "safe" part of safe sex.

Explain, please?

If this were the gun advise thread I would say I've described a parentally installed trigger lock (the "safe" part?) Hopefully it is installed in addition to providing an environment of frank and honest education and discussion about all aspects of this subject, in the context of the bigger picture, which is teaching the youth to make decisions with an eye toward the long view. Hopefully that last part has been done so well that the youth appreciates that the parent is probably right, not that he or she is happy about that. But now I'm certainly dreaming.

 

[JohnnieJohnson]

At one point I had that quote, decided I liked the one I had better. And yeah, it was mostly sincere- do you know how damn hard it's going to be for me alone to accomplish a full re-doing of my house and barn?

Anyone who doesn't mind living in a tent city in the backyard (because my house is tiny) and sharing showers to conserve both time and water, I'm recruiting slave labor And I really am a good cook. Not to mention completely insane, I teach kids all sorts of strange stuff, like how, exactly, you're supposed to jump out of the top of a tree without getting killed. Or scare the neighbors without saying more than "Hi! I made blueberry muffins and had some leftover, so I thought I'd bring them to you!"

It's a generous offer. Parents here should give it serious consideration!

And of course I'm just kidding about the song: It's a magic song, powerfully evocative. The verse you've selected is especially beautiful.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Explain, please?

If this were the gun advise thread I would say I've described a parentally installed trigger lock (the "safe" part?) Hopefully it is installed in addition to providing an environment of frank and honest education and discussion about all aspects of this subject, in the context of the bigger picture, which is teaching the youth to make decisions with an eye toward the long view. Hopefully that last part has been done so well that the youth appreciates that the parent is probably right, not that he or she is happy about that. But now I'm certainly dreaming.

Sex is not guns. Sex is a means of communication. Guns... aren't.

I don't know if we've met before? I am fifty years old and the mother of two teens.

There are dangers associated with sex, sure. Pregnancy, STDS, and the "reputation thing."

Pregnancy and STDS can be prevented by teaching safe sexual practices.
the "reputation thing" can be prevented by teaching discretion and social skills. Or, as my dad put it, "Don't sleep with more than one guy in a group"- advice which I merrily ignored.

Conflating sex with love makes for jealousy and broken hearts, but that's part of growing up. Those happen to teens with or without sex.

The only other thing I can think of might be a danger to the parents if they are percieved as aiding and abetting their children- if they consider their child's sexual life as part of their social life, you know. My parents wouldn't let me stay overnight with my boyfriends, or let them stay at our house overnight.

What's the "long view" you are woried about?

 

[Guest]

My little sister moved in with me to help me out since I'm somewhat laid up with physical (and she says mental) problems. Today, after she was out all weekend long going places with her boyfriend, using money that I gave her, and my credit card, she says she's tired of doing everything around the house.

Now, this is after I did her laundry this morning and dishes plus cleaned up after her damned cat.

I know girls aren't quite all there during PMS...and it might be a bad thing also because I've been grumpy as hell over some personal issues of my own, but I've about told her she can get out if she doesn't like my rules. Since her boyfriend, who she's been with almost a year now, lives here, I just don't see her leaving anytime soon, dammit all.

We usually have a very good relationship despite the age difference. She comes to me with her problems and with her triumphs. She's a straight A student, responsible, normally, and only drinks around me. She doesn't do drugs and as I said, has had the same boyfriend for almost a year and they are still going strong.

She's taking driver's training right now and expects me to take her to get her permit on Thursday...ha ha, she's in for a wonderful surprise.

 

[Guest]

And as far as girls and sex, the way I look at it, teenagers are headstrong and completely into the idea that they are right no matter what their parents say. I remember calling my mother up one day and apologizing for the bad time I gave her.

But they are also going to do what they want to do whether you want them to or not. If my parents knew some of the stuff I did, well, I probably would still be grounded.

My sister came to me after her first time, and I made she she had birth control, both the pill and condoms. She is allowed to be with her boyfriend here, because I'd rather have her here than in someone else's house maybe being gang raped or doing drugs.

Kids do what they want, even if we don't want them to. Steph is my only chance at raising a kid since I can't have kids of my own, so if you can't fuck up your sister, who can you?

 

[Guest]

Oops, Firefly, thanks for the offer but I have to keep her here because otherwise I'd only have my husband to torment and he's not as much fun.

 

[JohnnieJohnson]

Sex is not guns. Sex is a means of communication. Guns... aren't.

I don't know if we've met before? I am fifty years old and the mother of two teens.

There are dangers associated with sex, sure. Pregnancy, STDS, and the "reputation thing."

Pregnancy and STDS can be prevented by teaching safe sexual practices.
the "reputation thing" can be prevented by teaching discretion and social skills. Or, as my dad put it, "Don't sleep with more than one guy in a group"- advice which I merrily ignored.

Conflating sex with love makes for jealousy and broken hearts, but that's part of growing up. Those happen to teens with or without sex.

The only other thing I can think of might be a danger to the parents if they are percieved as aiding and abetting their children- if they consider their child's sexual life as part of their social life, you know. My parents wouldn't let me stay overnight with my boyfriends, or let them stay at our house overnight.

What's the "long view" you are woried about?

I think the dangers you list (pregnancy, STDS, and the "reputation thing") are too limited. (Plus I don't really give a damn about the last one.) I'm thinking about the emotional dangers. And what might be thought of as kind of an "opportunity cost" of entering adulthood without learning that to live a full and satisfying life, one must appeciate that there is more to life than focusing so intensely on the pleasures of the moment, including sensual ones. That's what I mean by the long view. In some realms it's easy to cite examples: Study your calculus rather than going to the mall, so you can have a satisfying and financially rewarding career. Eat and drink in moderation, and exercise, so you don't become unhealthily obese. Doing those things are hard, but the benefits are obvious. In this discussion of sexuality the things to do and not do are less obvious, and the benefits are less clear because in a way they are almost spiritual (in a completely non-religious way). I'm afraid I would need to think about this a lot more to be able to describe it well, if I ever could. Hopefully readers will get a sense of what I'm trying to convey. Maybe someone who does could help out, if I haven't become hopelessly fuzzy and pie-in-sky.

I think that in all these areas, to teach these things one must believe it enough to be willing to live it and really mean it, which sometimes means imposing certain limits. Maybe it's an old fashioned notion. Maybe really old fashioned, like Aristotle-old.

 

[JohnnieJohnson]

But they are also going to do what they want to do whether you want them to or not. If my parents knew some of the stuff I did, well, I probably would still be grounded. Kids do what they want, even if we don't want them to.

In the context of my last post, I wonder if there is some value to leaving some space for the facts you describe by deliberately being an "inefficient enforcer" in situations that are not intrinsically dangerous. That is, let them think they are putting one over on you, and let them get away with it. At the same time, most of the time you exercise greater control, and that is the "official" policy, and as far as the they know, the only policy. I recognize that this is somewhat abstract and I'm now talking about an idealized situation; the day-to-day realities are messier and less clear cut. But I'm trying to discover and describe some useful general principles.

BTW, I am no more enamored of Victorian/religious sex-is-bad mores than anyone else here. I'm trying to express some things that I know everyone here essentially agrees with, about what the really important things are in life - and aren't - and how to we convey these truths to our young.

 

[S-Des]

Sex is not guns. Sex is a means of communication. Guns... aren't.

I don't know if we've met before? I am fifty years old and the mother of two teens.

There are dangers associated with sex, sure. Pregnancy, STDS, and the "reputation thing."

Pregnancy and STDS can be prevented by teaching safe sexual practices.
the "reputation thing" can be prevented by teaching discretion and social skills. Or, as my dad put it, "Don't sleep with more than one guy in a group"- advice which I merrily ignored.

Conflating sex with love makes for jealousy and broken hearts, but that's part of growing up. Those happen to teens with or without sex.

The only other thing I can think of might be a danger to the parents if they are percieved as aiding and abetting their children- if they consider their child's sexual life as part of their social life, you know. My parents wouldn't let me stay overnight with my boyfriends, or let them stay at our house overnight.

What's the "long view" you are woried about?

Pregnancy and STDS can be "limited" by teaching safe sex. I got a girl pregnant while using a condom and some STDs can still be transmitted while using protection.

I have some long thoughts about this, but maybe another time. I'm not about to tell any parents that they're wrong for how they've decided to handle their kids. It's too touchy a subject. I work with kids all day long and see an interesting range of behaviors (and hear endlessly about their parents rules or lack of them). This doesn't make me an expert, so I'll try to organize my thoughts better for the next time this comes up.

Danielle, in answer to the original question . . . Yes it's against the law, but no jury would possibly convict you .

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think the dangers you list (pregnancy, STDS, and the "reputation thing") are too limited. (Plus I don't really give a damn about the last one.) I'm thinking about the emotional dangers. And what might be thought of as kind of an "opportunity cost" of entering adulthood without learning that to live a full and satisfying life, one must appeciate that there is more to life than focusing so intensely on the pleasures of the moment, including sensual ones. That's what I mean by the long view. In some realms it's easy to cite examples: Study your calculus rather than going to the mall, so you can have a satisfying and financially rewarding career. Eat and drink in moderation, and exercise, so you don't become unhealthily obese. Doing those things are hard, but the benefits are obvious. In this discussion of sexuality the things to do and not do are less obvious, and the benefits are less clear because in a way they are almost spiritual (in a completely non-religious way). I'm afraid I would need to think about this a lot more to be able to describe it well, if I ever could. Hopefully readers will get a sense of what I'm trying to convey. Maybe someone who does could help out, if I haven't become hopelessly fuzzy and pie-in-sky.

I think that in all these areas, to teach these things one must believe it enough to be willing to live it and really mean it, which sometimes means imposing certain limits. Maybe it's an old fashioned notion. Maybe really old fashioned, like Aristotle-old.

I get you.

 

[Guest]

I guess I believe in a choose your battles and hope that they've learned enough during the raising stage to actually do the right things when you can't fight them.

I've had Steph with me for a few years now and had to go to the school one day when she got into some trouble. I was driving home and looked at her and said, I'm so disappointed in you. The kid cried all the way home.

Sex is a dangerous weapon and in the hands of teenagers, it can be deadly. It's another instance of teaching them morals and values and hoping that when the time comes, they choose the right path. I was shocked myself when Steph came to me and told me she was sexually active and asked for my help in getting on birth control. But I'm glad she did.

 

[SensualCealy]

No shooting young women with PMS is illegal specially with a gun!

Now if you said, shooting up young women with Mydol, or Pamerin with needles, Id agree to that. Better yet, how bout Midol by intervenous?(sp)

I have had my days where I just turn to her when she is a bitch and say, I dont deserve your mouth today, go take a Mydol and go clean your room till it starts to work! Usually works! If it doesnt I just make her feel guilty, and that does work! lmao

Arent daughters fun?
C