The AH Coffee Shop and Reading Room 09

[Duleigh]

Doesn't the "long 's'" remain in use in German, substituting for 'ss', as in "Straſe"?

Completely different letter. The letter ß eszett or scharfes S (Sharp S) has a long s sound. ß is an actual letter in the German alphabet, when translating to english it can be replaced with an SS, ſ is just a way of expressing the letter s in the English alphabet

(I had to study silly crap like this when I was studying to be a typesetter)

 

[stickygirl]

Completely different letter. The letter ß eszett or scharfes S (Sharp S) has a long s sound. ß is an actual letter in the German alphabet, when translating to english it can be replaced with an SS, ſ is just a way of expressing the letter s in the English alphabet

(I had to study silly crap like this when I was studying to be a typesetter)

I've visited a company in the UK where they cast their own lead letters, then use a big Heidelberg press. The only computerised thing were their phones!

 

[TheLobster]

Completely different letter.

It’s not. Eszett, like the name suggests, evolved from a digraph of ‘s’ with ‘z’, with the former being the long S.

Here’s a sign with both long S and eszett, so you can see how they relate:

 

[MillieDynamite]

If you say so.

It’s not. Eszett, like the name suggests, evolved from a digraph of ‘s’ with ‘z’, with the former being the long S.

Here’s a sign with both long S and eszett, so you can see how they relate:

View attachment 2587633

 

[Duleigh]

It’s not. Eszett, like the name suggests, evolved from a digraph of ‘s’ with ‘z’, with the former being the long S.

Here’s a sign with both long S and eszett, so you can see how they relate:

View attachment 2587633

The shape of the letter was related to the long S, but the function of the letter is completely different. The Long S has no unique sound, the eszett has a unique sound of its own.

 

[TheLobster]

The shape of the letter was related to the long S, but the function of the letter is completely different. The Long S has no unique sound, the eszett has a unique sound of its own.

In High German, it represents the same sound as one of the possible readings of regular ‘s’. It is not unique.

 

[Duleigh]

In High German, it represents the same sound as one of the possible readings of regular ‘s’. It is not unique.

The original question was the use of the long s ſ in ENGLISH versus the use of the The letter ß eszett in German. Since the the long s ſ in ENGLISH is purely ornamental there is no comparison, They are not the same. You need to pay attention.

 

[calmlikeabomb]

I've visited a company in the UK where they cast their own lead letters, then use a big Heidelberg press. The only computerised thing were their phones!

Nice. What did this company do?

 

[MillieDynamite]

Just a guess, print things, maybe?

Nice. What did this company do?

 

[calmlikeabomb]

Just a guess, print things, maybe?

Were they printing.... The Lord of the Rings or The Silmarillion by any chance? I am also willing to accept anything by Ursula LeGuin.

 

[stickygirl]

Were they printing.... The Lord of the Rings or The Silmarillion by any chance? I am also willing to accept anything by Ursula LeGuin.

No, they print art books. Small print runs. They’re sold for hundreds

 

[calmlikeabomb]

No, they print art books. Small print runs. They’re sold for hundreds

Nice! What kind of art books?

My family and I are book collectors. The oldest book we have in our collection is from the 1850s (letters of Queen Victoria to other european monarchs), but we have manuscripts from the 1700s too!

I am a massive book nerd, and I would love to know what kind of things they do.

 

[stickygirl]

Nice! What kind of art books?

My family and I are book collectors. The oldest book we have in our collection is from the 1850s (letters of Queen Victoria to other european monarchs), but we have manuscripts from the 1700s too!

I am a massive book nerd, and I would love to know what kind of things they do.

I guess they print work for people who care and have deep pockets. I’ll pm their name

 

[calmlikeabomb]

I guess they print work for people who care and have deep pockets. I’ll pm their name

Thank you soooooo much!

 

[stickygirl]

Thank you soooooo much!

Bloody ink and lead nerds - they keep following me and try to impress me with Almonte Regular 36pt

 

[MillieDynamite]

I was guessing and asking if my guess was correct.

Were they printing.... The Lord of the Rings or The Silmarillion by any chance? I am also willing to accept anything by Ursula LeGuin.

 

[MillieDynamite]

It was correct, so I'm a good guesser, I guess.

 

[calmlikeabomb]

I was guessing and asking if my guess was correct.

Sooo Tolkien?

 

[Kumquatqueen]

The Germans have changed the rules about when to use Eszett - now the ß character is only used when ss is after a long vowel. If the vowel is short you have to stick to ss. And there's no capital ß, either. So you still write Straße (straa-se, street) or aß (ass, ate), but now have to write Schloss (palace/castle) or Schlüssel (key).

Of course they did this after I finished school, so I forget the rule for words I learnt like Schloß, so I come across as an old lady. Especially as I tend to stick to inoffensive swearing to be on the safe side, so end up saying things like "Heavens to Betsy!" rather than "Fuck your cunting whore mother!"

 

[MrPixel]

The Germans have changed the rules about when to use Eszett - now the ß character is only used when ss is after a long vowel. If the vowel is short you have to stick to ss. And there's no capital ß, either. So you still write Straße (straa-se, street) or aß (ass, ate), but now have to write Schloss (palace/castle) or Schlüssel (key).

I had two years of German and never processed the rule(s) about ß. Or it wasn't taught in German I and II. I'm looking back and wondering why in the hell I took German in the first place. Spanish would have been far, far more useful, both then and in later life.

Oh, yeah. Now I remember. I was on a big Johann Sebastian Bach kick at the time. 15-year-olds aren't exactly renown for wise, logical decision making.

 

[NotWise]

I had two years of German and never processed the rule(s) about ß. Or it wasn't taught in German I and II. I'm looking back and wondering why in the hell I took German in the first place. Spanish would have been far, far more useful, both then and in later life.

Oh, yeah. Now I remember. I was on a big Johann Sebastian Bach kick at the time. 15-year-olds aren't exactly renown for wise, logical decision making.

That was about the age when one of my daughters took German because she was into Rammstein.

 

[MrPixel]

And now I remember why I was into Bach. I was taking pipe organ lessons. Bach was big in the organ community at the time. Certainly wasn't for the Brandenburg Concertos, which I still find to be tedious. And I wasn't an oboist at the time, either; my orchestral shtick then was tuba, and Bach didn't write much for tuba.

By frosh year in college it became pretty clear I was awful on organ and certainly was not going to master the instrument. Was awful in German, too.

 

[JGittes]

Nice! What kind of art books?

My family and I are book collectors. The oldest book we have in our collection is from the 1850s (letters of Queen Victoria to other european monarchs), but we have manuscripts from the 1700s too!

I am a massive book nerd, and I would love to know what kind of things they do.

Are you familiar with Bird and Bull Press?

 

[calmlikeabomb]

Are you familiar with Bird and Bull Press?

Sadly I am not.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Oh, yeah. Now I remember. I was on a big Johann Sebastian Bach kick at the time. 15-year-olds aren't exactly renown for wise, logical decision making.

Oh, I don't know. There was a day when you couldn't walk down the residence hall without hearing some.