The AI & Data Center Thread

[jomar]

Not in my backyard dipshits need to get over their bullshit

Eh, yes and no. They’re coming, but would you like one a football field away from your house like some of these DCs are? Surely you’ve seen the problems they pose when too close to neighborhoods

 

[ll74]

Eh, yes and no. They’re coming, but would you like one a football field away from your house like some of these DCs are? Surely you’ve seen the problems they pose when too close to neighborhoods

I have an Amazon warehouse less than a mile from me.
A data center most likely will be put in right next to it.

The only issue I have is my electricity bill.

 

[jomar]

I have an Amazon warehouse less than a mile from me.
A data center most likely will be put in right next to it.

The only issue I have is my electricity bill.

Amazon warehouses and data centers are two different animals, but a mile might be far enough away. Hope the Amazon warehouse will be between your house and the data center for your sake, but will be curious to hear your reaction when it’s up and running.

 

[ll74]

Amazon warehouses and data centers are two different animals, but a mile might be far enough away. Hope the Amazon warehouse will be between your house and the data center for your sake, but will be curious to hear your reaction when it’s up and running.

Eh. Things go places. Most of the time they end up going in poor neighborhoods because higher income people have more money and influence on politicians. I.e. nimbies.

Sadly, that's the reason lots of housing doesn't happen.

Data centers will be helpful for a large number of America.....from new science (they've broken quite a few physics problems wide open already) to health breakthroughs to solving complex issues that we haven't even thought of yet.

The argument is overblown as most people get misinformed about water and electricity and emissions...etc. I see more upside than downside...maybe because I work in tech.

 

[jomar]

Eh. Things go places. Most of the time they end up going in poor neighborhoods because higher income people have more money and influence on politicians. I.e. nimbies.

Yes, as usual fuck the poor. Those higher income folks don’t want them in their backyards for pretty good reasons given the reporting I’ve seen.

Data centers will be helpful for a large number of America.....from new science (they've broken quite a few physics problems wide open already) to health breakthroughs to solving complex issues that we haven't even thought of yet.

No argument from me on this.

The argument is overblown as most people get misinformed about water and electricity and emissions...etc. I see more upside than downside...maybe because I work in tech.

My thoughts on this aren’t about the water and electricity. Noise pollution, decreased property values, other stuff affecting people. I can only imagine what it would be like sitting a few hundred yards away from one for a few hours and then imagining that going on 24/7.

 

[ll74]

Yes, as usual fuck the poor. Those higher income folks don’t want them in their backyards for pretty good reasons given the reporting I’ve seen.

They are the ones who can afford sound barriers...etc.

No argument from me on this.


My thoughts on this aren’t about the water and electricity. Noise pollution, decreased property values, other stuff affecting people. I can only imagine what it would be like sitting a few hundred yards away from one for a few hours and then imagining that going on 24/7.

There are mechanisms that cut sound levels. The highway two miles away is louder. I also live higher up and the sound travels easier from other things.

I do believe eventually more efficient building ideas will lead to overcoming most of the issues. Wind turbines are being designed that deal with the problems they had originally .

 

[jomar]

They are the ones who can afford sound barriers...etc.

Yes but they aren’t going to want a DC within miles of their neighborhoods

There are mechanisms that cut sound levels. The highway two miles away is louder. I also live higher up and the sound travels easier from other things.

Good luck then on the 24/7 DC noise. Hope I’m overestimating it

I do believe eventually more efficient building ideas will lead to overcoming most of the issues. Wind turbines are being designed that deal with the problems they had originally .

Hopefully in time for your local DC

 

[ll74]

Yes but they aren’t going to want a DC within miles of their neighborhoods

Yes, they're nimbies. They don't want anything in their backyard ...hence the word, nimby

Good luck then on the 24/7 DC noise. Hope I’m overestimating it

You are

Hopefully in time for your local DC

Perhaps
Perhaps not.
There's other things that bother me more. If it does, I'll move.

If it isn't data centers, I'm sure something else will piss off people that will be overblown. People like to be pissed off for stupid things. At least prices are grounded in reality.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

 

[forgotmyantidepressants]

A township a few communities away from me ignored the wishes of their constituents and approved a plan to build one. They say it's going to bring money and jobs, but we'll see.

 

[Lazaran]

View attachment 2674436

BabyBoozers apparently does NOT understand how a “bubble” gets inflated…



And then there is this:

Search Assist

Yes, Nvidia's AI chips, specifically the Jetson Orin modules, have been found in Russian missiles, indicating they can be repurposed for military applications. Despite sanctions, these chips are available through various suppliers, making them accessible for such uses.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/ip3/www.tomshardware.com.ico Tom's Hardwarehttps://external-content.duckduckgo.com/ip3/forums.theregister.com.ico The Register

Repurposing of Nvidia's AI Chips​

Yes, Nvidia's AI chips, particularly the Jetson Orin modules, have been found in Russian missiles, indicating their potential for military applications.

Availability and Access​

Despite sanctions imposed on Russia, these chips are still accessible through various suppliers. This availability allows for their repurposing in military systems, including:

• Cruise Missiles: The S-71 'Monochrome' missile has been reported to utilize Nvidia's Jetson Orin modules for targeting.
• Drones: Similar technology has been identified in autonomous drones used by Russian forces.

Technical Capabilities​

The Jetson Orin modules are designed for various applications, including:

• AI Processing: They can run AI models locally, which is beneficial for autonomous targeting and guidance systems.
• Image Recognition: The chips can assist in real-time image recognition, enhancing the effectiveness of military operations.

Implications​

The presence of these chips in military hardware raises concerns about the effectiveness of export controls and sanctions. While Nvidia states that their products are not intended for military use and are not officially available in Russia, the reality is that they can still be acquired through third-party channels.
This situation highlights the challenges in enforcing technology export controls, especially for widely available consumer-grade products.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/ip3/www.tomshardware.com.ico Tom's Hardwarehttps://external-content.duckduckgo.com/ip3/forums.theregister.com.ico The Register



So, yeah, Nvidia IS selling a fuckton of their AI chips - which is NOT necessarily a good thing…



Hope that ^ helps.



BabyBoozer



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[ll74]

BabyBoozers apparently does NOT understand how a “bubble” gets inflated…



And then there is this:

Search Assist

Yes, Nvidia's AI chips, specifically the Jetson Orin modules, have been found in Russian missiles, indicating they can be repurposed for military applications. Despite sanctions, these chips are available through various suppliers, making them accessible for such uses.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/ip3/www.tomshardware.com.ico Tom's Hardwarehttps://external-content.duckduckgo.com/ip3/forums.theregister.com.ico The Register

Repurposing of Nvidia's AI Chips​

Yes, Nvidia's AI chips, particularly the Jetson Orin modules, have been found in Russian missiles, indicating their potential for military applications.

Availability and Access​

Despite sanctions imposed on Russia, these chips are still accessible through various suppliers. This availability allows for their repurposing in military systems, including:

• Cruise Missiles: The S-71 'Monochrome' missile has been reported to utilize Nvidia's Jetson Orin modules for targeting.
• Drones: Similar technology has been identified in autonomous drones used by Russian forces.

Technical Capabilities​

The Jetson Orin modules are designed for various applications, including:

• AI Processing: They can run AI models locally, which is beneficial for autonomous targeting and guidance systems.
• Image Recognition: The chips can assist in real-time image recognition, enhancing the effectiveness of military operations.

Implications​

The presence of these chips in military hardware raises concerns about the effectiveness of export controls and sanctions. While Nvidia states that their products are not intended for military use and are not officially available in Russia, the reality is that they can still be acquired through third-party channels.
This situation highlights the challenges in enforcing technology export controls, especially for widely available consumer-grade products.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/ip3/www.tomshardware.com.ico Tom's Hardwarehttps://external-content.duckduckgo.com/ip3/forums.theregister.com.ico The Register



So, yeah, Nvidia IS selling a fuckton of their AI chips - which is NOT necessarily a good thing…



Hope that ^ helps.



BabyBoozer



We. Told. Them. So.

Are you suggesting that Nvidia, a chipmaker, should not sell chips?

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Why many local government administrators love data centers.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2092719786849378705

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

BabyBoozers apparently does NOT understand how a “bubble” gets inflated…



And then there is this:

Search Assist

Yes, Nvidia's AI chips, specifically the Jetson Orin modules, have been found in Russian missiles, indicating they can be repurposed for military applications. Despite sanctions, these chips are available through various suppliers, making them accessible for such uses.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/ip3/www.tomshardware.com.ico Tom's Hardwarehttps://external-content.duckduckgo.com/ip3/forums.theregister.com.ico The Register

Repurposing of Nvidia's AI Chips​

Yes, Nvidia's AI chips, particularly the Jetson Orin modules, have been found in Russian missiles, indicating their potential for military applications.

Availability and Access​

Despite sanctions imposed on Russia, these chips are still accessible through various suppliers. This availability allows for their repurposing in military systems, including:

• Cruise Missiles: The S-71 'Monochrome' missile has been reported to utilize Nvidia's Jetson Orin modules for targeting.
• Drones: Similar technology has been identified in autonomous drones used by Russian forces.

Technical Capabilities​

The Jetson Orin modules are designed for various applications, including:

• AI Processing: They can run AI models locally, which is beneficial for autonomous targeting and guidance systems.
• Image Recognition: The chips can assist in real-time image recognition, enhancing the effectiveness of military operations.

Implications​

The presence of these chips in military hardware raises concerns about the effectiveness of export controls and sanctions. While Nvidia states that their products are not intended for military use and are not officially available in Russia, the reality is that they can still be acquired through third-party channels.
This situation highlights the challenges in enforcing technology export controls, especially for widely available consumer-grade products.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/ip3/www.tomshardware.com.ico Tom's Hardwarehttps://external-content.duckduckgo.com/ip3/forums.theregister.com.ico The Register



So, yeah, Nvidia IS selling a fuckton of their AI chips - which is NOT necessarily a good thing…



Hope that ^ helps.



BabyBoozer



We. Told. Them. So.

The point is that massive data center investments are continuing and the company that dominates the chip segment is delivering phenomenal financial performance.

Is there a data center bubble? AI and data centers are not going away.

Some companies won’t get the returns needed to recover their capital investments. I don’t think NVIDIA is one of them.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

How AI is helping Ukraine.

Ukraine using AI drones to strike vital convoys supplying Russian troops​

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cdjp0n7rn41o

 

[Chernosoth]

The point is that massive data center investments are continuing and the company that dominates the chip segment is delivering phenomenal financial performance.

Is there a data center bubble? AI and data centers are not going away.

Some companies won’t get the returns needed to recover their capital investments. I don’t think NVIDIA is one of them.

How much did you invest? Is that an oopsie or your entire retirement fund?

 

[Lazaran]

Yes. Nvidia is selling a fuckton of their AI chips - which is NOT necessarily a good thing…



BabyBoozer & their simp



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[ll74]

Yes. Nvidia is selling a fuckton of their AI chips - which is NOT necessarily a good thing…



BabyBoozer & their simp



We. Told. Them. So.

So you want Nvidia not to sell their chips?

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

How much did you invest? Is that an oopsie or your entire retirement fund?

I don’t buy individual stocks. My equity investments are in a blend of ETFs to provide diversification and wide market coverage. NVIDIA and other big tech stocks are definitely included in the mix and have been performing well but I choose not to be too heavily weighted in any particular sector.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

So you want Nvidia not to sell their chips?

I don't care about the bottom line of Phillip Morris.

 

[ll74]

I don't care about the bottom line of Phillip Morris.

My question wasn't to you.
And your answer didn't answer my question.

 

[LLCox]

data centers are to control you.

 

[njlauren]

There is a lot more to the data center issue than is being portrayed. Towns love them because they see revenue from property taxes (the thing with Jobs is bullshit, these days with data centers there is very little staff involved, except maybe security guards. Most of the operations work is done remotely, and when they need to fix the servers themselves, it won't be local people doing it. Will they need mechanical maintenance, like AC and plumbing and the like? Sure, but this isn't the old days of IT where you had operations and field engineers to fix the computers.

Yes, it becomes a source of property tax income. It is great because from the Town's standpoint, it doesn't add much to the towns cost side., it doesn't bring new families with kids like a factory would (see new jobs above), doesn't really add much to snow removal costs, policing, garbage pickup (if they even do it), etc. There will be a problem down the road where the data center owners will threaten to move to another town if they don't give them a huge tax abatement, and the money gravy train will end, if they didn't already give them abatements.

And yes, there is the noise, and if these plants start building their own power sources to feed the 7-9 gwh of power they consume every day, you will have the noise and the pollution generated (agreed a gas fired power plant puts out relatively little, but still). However, that power plant needs cooling water too and they don't use a closed loop, many of them use evaporative cooling, and no, the water doesn't cool down the power plant then is returned to the water source, to get the kind of cooling they need (like the computers in the data centers) is evaporative cooling besides their claims of closed loop architecture, which especially in hot climates won't work. I am waiting to see what happens in Arizona and Nevada when the price of water goes into ridiculous mode because of water inavailability from the Colorado.

The other thing is the price of tvs and other things that use memory chips are starting to soar, and it is because of the mad AI rush, which of course use a ton of memory. Even things like SSD drives have soared. There is a cost to this.

But the data center wars aren't just nimby, it is AI itself. For all the public marketing of AI as helping our lives (and it definitely can), people also have very real fears about jobs. They already know from the example of manufacturing jobs, that no company cares about the impact of going cheaper, all they care about is cutting costs, because that is the gold mine of stock analysts. Now it is moving into white collar jobs, and forget the "we will improve efficiency, people will be able to do more in less time , will be easier on them". If they find AI does things where 1 person can do the job of 5 or 6, they won't think "wow, how much more can I do in a day given the current staff", they will think "I can can 5 people, and still do the same thing with 1 person". Wall Street, Harvard Business school and the little drones they produce at places like McKimsey don't care about macro economics, they care about costs and stock price, period.

In the creative fields, same way. Australia just banned any music from music charts that are created by AI, something like 5 or 6 of the top songs were created by AI, not human artists. Books? Publisher can write a nice little script and say "give me a book about blah blah blah, with these characters, with this happening, in the style of Sarah J Maas" and with very little effort, put out a book that basically is Sarah Maas without her writing it (it will be a kind of mashup of her writing style, but still). They don't see AI as a tool, but rather as a way to replace the human beings that produce these things. Hell, you can write and generate music using AI alone, and then create a 'concert tour' with a bunch of schlubs at 15 an hour who gyrate on the stage, faking singing and faking playing to a totally AI generated soundtrack (hell, with pop music these days, other than the AI generation, that pretty much is what a concert is, lip synching and twerking).

And to quote Ian Malcolm in Jurassic Park the clowns developing all this don't think I can do this, but should I? There is now the big controversy with flock cameras tracking license plates, to be able to process all that you need AI. Yes, cops can use it after a crime has happened to look for a perp, but the way it is set up, despite what the scumbag who created it claims, it is being used to track people's lives for things that have nothing to do with crime. Cops can get info from Flock without a warrant, which means they can look for criminal activity totally unbound.

It also will have impact in other areas. The obvious one, schools, where now ChatGPT and the like are used to do homework, so the kids aren't learning anything other than how to put it at an AI prompt. The problem? No thought there at all about what the purpose is. "Write" a term paper about WWII, and the kid has done no research, read any sources, don't learn to write, and basically don't learn to think (It is no wonder as someone who has more than a bit of knowledge about WWII, why I hear morons saying "we shojld have fought with Hitler" or "Germany would have won with their superior military" and drivel like that. AI training often picks up myth as fact, friend of mine is a history teacher and had a student turn in a paper that was obviously written by AI, that basically refuted the idea that Slavery had anything to do with the civil war, was dying anyway and that if the north hadn't started the civil war, it all would have worked out great........obviously whatever he was using must be using right wing websites as truth or something).

Someone in this thread mentioned physics and solving some problems that had been out there a long time. Yes, and some mathematics problems.

However, there is a problem, AI didn't really solve the problem, what it did was use massive number crunching, something it is great at, to come to an answer, which is the equivalent in mathematics doing a proof of Fermats last theorem running a trillion numbers as N In it (fermat's last theorem, is that for any equatiion a^n +b^n + c^n, where n>2 there is no solution). It isn't really a proof because all it did was show via numbers what looked likely. In physics this can be deadly because what they have done is an answer, but because it didn't happen by understanding what was underneath it all, it means as stepping stone forward it is useless, it cannot give insight into other things. AI crunches what has already been found to come up with an answer, it does not question or say "what about X?". But I can see a world where the government says "why bother spending money on research when AI can get us everything we need", which is the 'unless it proves tangible results, it is useless'. Ironically AI itself came about because of basic research like that, it happened a long time ago when people started asking themsleves what intelligence is, what are the limits of what machines can do, all of which were quite useless in their original form.

AI can do a lot of things, but it also can end up crippling the future because it cannot dream, it cannot create, it cannot have bursts of inspiration,or quite frankly the emotion that has often driven great things. AI isn't the problem itself, it is those who look at it greedily or see a massive shortcut and don't ask the consequences.

 

[icanhelp1]

There is a lot more to the data center issue than is being portrayed. Towns love them because they see revenue from property taxes (the thing with Jobs is bullshit, these days with data centers there is very little staff involved, except maybe security guards. Most of the operations work is done remotely, and when they need to fix the servers themselves, it won't be local people doing it. Will they need mechanical maintenance, like AC and plumbing and the like? Sure, but this isn't the old days of IT where you had operations and field engineers to fix the computers.

Yes, it becomes a source of property tax income. It is great because from the Town's standpoint, it doesn't add much to the towns cost side., it doesn't bring new families with kids like a factory would (see new jobs above), doesn't really add much to snow removal costs, policing, garbage pickup (if they even do it), etc. There will be a problem down the road where the data center owners will threaten to move to another town if they don't give them a huge tax abatement, and the money gravy train will end, if they didn't already give them abatements.

And yes, there is the noise, and if these plants start building their own power sources to feed the 7-9 gwh of power they consume every day, you will have the noise and the pollution generated (agreed a gas fired power plant puts out relatively little, but still). However, that power plant needs cooling water too and they don't use a closed loop, many of them use evaporative cooling, and no, the water doesn't cool down the power plant then is returned to the water source, to get the kind of cooling they need (like the computers in the data centers) is evaporative cooling besides their claims of closed loop architecture, which especially in hot climates won't work. I am waiting to see what happens in Arizona and Nevada when the price of water goes into ridiculous mode because of water inavailability from the Colorado.

The other thing is the price of tvs and other things that use memory chips are starting to soar, and it is because of the mad AI rush, which of course use a ton of memory. Even things like SSD drives have soared. There is a cost to this.

But the data center wars aren't just nimby, it is AI itself. For all the public marketing of AI as helping our lives (and it definitely can), people also have very real fears about jobs. They already know from the example of manufacturing jobs, that no company cares about the impact of going cheaper, all they care about is cutting costs, because that is the gold mine of stock analysts. Now it is moving into white collar jobs, and forget the "we will improve efficiency, people will be able to do more in less time , will be easier on them". If they find AI does things where 1 person can do the job of 5 or 6, they won't think "wow, how much more can I do in a day given the current staff", they will think "I can can 5 people, and still do the same thing with 1 person". Wall Street, Harvard Business school and the little drones they produce at places like McKimsey don't care about macro economics, they care about costs and stock price, period.

In the creative fields, same way. Australia just banned any music from music charts that are created by AI, something like 5 or 6 of the top songs were created by AI, not human artists. Books? Publisher can write a nice little script and say "give me a book about blah blah blah, with these characters, with this happening, in the style of Sarah J Maas" and with very little effort, put out a book that basically is Sarah Maas without her writing it (it will be a kind of mashup of her writing style, but still). They don't see AI as a tool, but rather as a way to replace the human beings that produce these things. Hell, you can write and generate music using AI alone, and then create a 'concert tour' with a bunch of schlubs at 15 an hour who gyrate on the stage, faking singing and faking playing to a totally AI generated soundtrack (hell, with pop music these days, other than the AI generation, that pretty much is what a concert is, lip synching and twerking).

And to quote Ian Malcolm in Jurassic Park the clowns developing all this don't think I can do this, but should I? There is now the big controversy with flock cameras tracking license plates, to be able to process all that you need AI. Yes, cops can use it after a crime has happened to look for a perp, but the way it is set up, despite what the scumbag who created it claims, it is being used to track people's lives for things that have nothing to do with crime. Cops can get info from Flock without a warrant, which means they can look for criminal activity totally unbound.

It also will have impact in other areas. The obvious one, schools, where now ChatGPT and the like are used to do homework, so the kids aren't learning anything other than how to put it at an AI prompt. The problem? No thought there at all about what the purpose is. "Write" a term paper about WWII, and the kid has done no research, read any sources, don't learn to write, and basically don't learn to think (It is no wonder as someone who has more than a bit of knowledge about WWII, why I hear morons saying "we shojld have fought with Hitler" or "Germany would have won with their superior military" and drivel like that. AI training often picks up myth as fact, friend of mine is a history teacher and had a student turn in a paper that was obviously written by AI, that basically refuted the idea that Slavery had anything to do with the civil war, was dying anyway and that if the north hadn't started the civil war, it all would have worked out great........obviously whatever he was using must be using right wing websites as truth or something).

Someone in this thread mentioned physics and solving some problems that had been out there a long time. Yes, and some mathematics problems.

However, there is a problem, AI didn't really solve the problem, what it did was use massive number crunching, something it is great at, to come to an answer, which is the equivalent in mathematics doing a proof of Fermats last theorem running a trillion numbers as N In it (fermat's last theorem, is that for any equatiion a^n +b^n + c^n, where n>2 there is no solution). It isn't really a proof because all it did was show via numbers what looked likely. In physics this can be deadly because what they have done is an answer, but because it didn't happen by understanding what was underneath it all, it means as stepping stone forward it is useless, it cannot give insight into other things. AI crunches what has already been found to come up with an answer, it does not question or say "what about X?". But I can see a world where the government says "why bother spending money on research when AI can get us everything we need", which is the 'unless it proves tangible results, it is useless'. Ironically AI itself came about because of basic research like that, it happened a long time ago when people started asking themsleves what intelligence is, what are the limits of what machines can do, all of which were quite useless in their original form.

AI can do a lot of things, but it also can end up crippling the future because it cannot dream, it cannot create, it cannot have bursts of inspiration,or quite frankly the emotion that has often driven great things. AI isn't the problem itself, it is those who look at it greedily or see a massive shortcut and don't ask the consequences.

 

[njlauren]

Yep, especially the line "Some machine, do it all for you"