The moon

[HisArpy]

I'm not sure why, but I feel like chiming in.

HisArpy is, and I'm paraphrasing, saying that if a map is accurate at the time it's made, then it should be heeded. The existence of dragons is a moot point. Dragons represent danger.

Please feel free to correct where I'm wrong.

You see, accuracy isn't the point when viewed from today's historical telescope. What's important is that when people in a far past time said to beware of dragons, they might have known what they were talking about.

Dismissing that is silly. We don't actually know if there were or weren't dragons. In a similar vein, we suspect there's a missing link in human evolution but for all the archeological wonders and skeletons we've discovered we've yet to find it. Under the theory of dismissing that which you don't believe in because there's no proof, the missing link doesn't exist at all. Which puts us humans in a bind as to knowing or discovering where we came from.

Then there's a maxim that's kind of appropriate in this instance; absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

[Saint_Ann]

Hey! What is today?

 

[Wat_Tyler]

Tuesday

 

[Wat_Tyler]

Neptune and Saturn are supposed to be near the moon tonight.


I have clouds, so it doesn't matter.

 

[HisArpy]

That Space X can o' burnt out worms is gonna smack the moon in the face tonight around 2:35 am Eastern.

Einstein Crater is on the left edge of the moon's disk around 10 o'clock or so.

 

[HisArpy]

Neptune and Saturn are supposed to be near the moon tonight.


I have clouds, so it doesn't matter.

I have impending marine layer fog but can drive into the hills to get above it.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

You see, accuracy isn't the point when viewed from today's historical telescope. What's important is that when people in a far past time said to beware of dragons, they might have known what they were talking about.

Dismissing that is silly. We don't actually know if there were or weren't dragons. In a similar vein, we suspect there's a missing link in human evolution but for all the archeological wonders and skeletons we've discovered we've yet to find it. Under the theory of dismissing that which you don't believe in because there's no proof, the missing link doesn't exist at all. Which puts us humans in a bind as to knowing or discovering where we came from.

Then there's a maxim that's kind of appropriate in this instance; absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

There is no physical evidence for the existence of dragon. No bones, no fossils, no fragments of hide. A large fire-breathing creature that can also fly is physiologically impossible.

We know large pterosaurs existed and how they flew. There are animals that spit acid, but none, large or small, that breathe fire.

All real animals have other species that are related to them. Dragons, being imaginary, have no cousins.

As regards to human evolution, we have plenty of transitional species that shoe the progression from ape to man. We know of hominid side branches that went extinct — “failed “experiments”.

 

[Saint_Ann]

There is no physical evidence for the existence of dragon. No bones, no fossils, no fragments of hide. A large fire-breathing creature that can also fly is physiologically impossible.

We know large pterosaurs existed and how they flew. There are animals that spit acid, but none, large or small, that breathe fire.

All real animals have other species that are related to them. Dragons, being imaginary, have no cousins.

As regards to human evolution, we have plenty of transitional species that shoe the progression from ape to man. We know of hominid side branches that went extinct — “failed “experiments”.

What came before the dinosaurs?

 

[Pad_Foot]

In the context of the universe the Big Bang had exactly the same effect on the extinction of the dinosaurs and the birth of babies as it had on the formation of the moon.

Let’s talk about what the Big Bang was. It was not “everything colliding and moving around”. It was the creation and metric expansion of space-time. Initially the universe was filled with a cloud of sub-atomic particles —a plasma soup. Over billions of years they coalesced into atoms of light elements like hydrogen and helium. We can still see that plasma cloud behind the most distant stars —that’s the cosmic microwave background.

Over more billions of years the light atoms coalesced into enormous stars that began to shine from nuclear fusion. Over billions of more years the biggest original stars went supernova scattering heavier elements through the universe.

Our solar system formed about 5 billion years from a rotating cloud of this stardust.

During its formation the proto-earth collided with another proto-planet about the size of Mars. The result was the Earth-Moon system.

A little bit after that, the dinosaurs evolved and were killed by an asteroid. Soon after in cosmic terms, humans evolved, and babies started being born.

You should add some more history and make this a song about "The Big Bang"

 

[TastySuckToy]

What came before the dinosaurs?

The Permian Period, the final period of the Paleozoic Era.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

What came before the dinosaurs?

An assortment of more primitive lizards. Still no dragons.

 

[Saint_Ann]

An assortment of more primitive lizards. Still no dragons.

4 billion years is a pretty long time. Maybe they missed something.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

4 billion years is a pretty long time. Maybe they missed something.

How did medieval map makers learn about an animal that existed hundreds of millions of years before humans?

 

[TastySuckToy]

4 billion years is a pretty long time. Maybe they missed something.

I think it goes without saying there is a lot of history, especially ancient history, that is lost to time.

This doesn't mean any made up idea gets valid reason to be pushed into the unknown areas.

 

[Saint_Ann]

How did medieval map makers learn about an animal that existed hundreds of millions of years before humans?

Good point. I'm just saying a lot can happen in 4 billion years, if that number is even accurate.

 

[Saint_Ann]

I think it goes without saying there is a lot of history, especially ancient history, that is lost to time.

This doesn't mean any made up idea gets valid reason to be pushed into the unknown areas.

I doubt there were dragons, unfortunately, but those silly unicorns missed the boat. Lol.

 

[HisArpy]

You should add some more history and make this a song about "The Big Bang"

Personally I think the whole narrative she posted is a bit short on physics and long on skipping the parts that make it seem like it makes sense when it obviously doesn't.

For example; those lighter atoms she said coalesced together and formed stars. What EXACTLY was it that made them begin to split atoms to emit light and heat? I ask because I'm not positive that gravity alone is enough to do it since there are planets, which aren't burning balls of fire, that went through the same "coalescing" process.

So, something seems a bit sparse in her explanation.

 

[HisArpy]

An assortment of more primitive lizards. Still no dragons.

So you say. Yet you have no proof other than your belief.

 

[HisArpy]

How did medieval map makers learn about an animal that existed hundreds of millions of years before humans?

Did it? Or are you making assumptions again?

I posit as a working theory that "the little people" of folklore are said to be made of magic. Their mere existence requires magic to make them solid/real. Every movement including breathing and blinking their eyes requires at least some magic.

Since magic is non-corporeal, what happens when one of the "little people" dies and their magic dissipates? Even discounting that they lived/worked/played UnderHill, upon their death there would be nothing left behind for any archeologist to find as proof of their existence. And, since absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, without proof of some sort either theory that they were real or just figments of early humans who couldn't explain natural phenomena is equally viable.

Dragons, or so it's said, were also made of magic...

 

[TastySuckToy]

Did it? Or are you making assumptions again?

I posit as a working theory that "the little people" of folklore are said to be made of magic. Their mere existence requires magic to make them solid/real. Every movement including breathing and blinking their eyes requires at least some magic.

Since magic is non-corporeal, what happens when one of the "little people" dies and their magic dissipates? Even discounting that they lived/worked/played UnderHill, upon their death there would be nothing left behind for any archeologist to find as proof of their existence. And, since absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, without proof of some sort either theory that they were real or just figments of early humans who couldn't explain natural phenomena is equally viable.

Dragons, or so it's said, were also made of magic...

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

“I had lunch with a friend yesterday” and “invisible, non-corporeal, magic-dissipating little people once lived UnderHill” are not claims that demand equal levels of evidence.

The second claim is protected by special pleading: it invents the rule that these beings are made of pure magic that vanishes completely on death specifically so that the total absence of physical remains becomes unsurprising. That exception is not independently supported; it exists only to shield the hypothesis from the evidence we would otherwise expect.

This also makes the claim unfalsifiable. Any lack of evidence is automatically explained away by the magic-dissipation rule, so nothing could ever count against it. Declaring both theories “equally viable” because neither has been disproven therefore confuses the absence of disproof with positive support—an argument from ignorance that shifts the burden of proof.

Folklore explanations of natural phenomena do not require this kind of evidentiary immunity. The magical version does, which is why the two positions are not on equal footing.

 

[Saint_Ann]

Everyone knows dragons can travel interdimensionally.

 

[ll74]

Did the rocket come out the other side?

 

[TastySuckToy]

Everyone knows dragons can travel interdimensionally.

And also have telepathic abilities to make anyone who sees them instantly forget they did.

 

[Saint_Ann]

And also have telepathic abilities to make anyone who sees them instantly forget they did.

Of course and they're filled with hydrogen.

 

[HisArpy]

Everyone knows dragons can travel interdimensionally.

Of course they can.

<-- wrote a couple of novels about a fae dude who gets roped into all kinds of things he'd rather not be involved with which, at the end of novel #2, resulted in his "girlfriend" (although he continues to deny she is) being in possession of, not 1 but, 2 dragons. The last breeding pair.

Lots of interesting inter dimensional travel in there.