The Odyssey

[Voboy]

I do find the idea of being pissed off by a movie very weird.

There are many, many, many people I share the planet with who really seem to enjoy being outraged all the time.

I do not understand such people. It strikes me as a pretty awful way to live.

 

[SimonDoom]

I do find the idea of being pissed off by a movie very weird.

It's entertainment. One person's vision may not be another's. So, yes, I generally agree with this.

Probably the closest I've come to being "pissed off" by a movie was in seeing The Phantom Menace the first time. I disliked it so intensely, and felt it trashed the Star Wars franchise, which I had so enjoyed and admired up to that point.

The Odyssey is a one=off (we hope; I suppose if it makes enough money somebody will come up with the idea for Odyssey Two), so I can't imagine being pissed off by it even if I don't like it.

 

[caleb35]

It's entertainment. One person's vision may not be another's. So, yes, I generally agree with this.

Probably the closest I've come to being "pissed off" by a movie was in seeing The Phantom Menace the first time. I disliked it so intensely, and felt it trashed the Star Wars franchise, which I had so enjoyed and admired up to that point.

The Odyssey is a one=off (we hope; I suppose if it makes enough money somebody will come up with the idea for Odyssey Two), so I can't imagine being pissed off by it even if I don't like it.

The Odyssey 2: Odysseus Boogaloo

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

There are many, many, many people I share the planet with who really seem to enjoy being outraged all the time.

I do not understand such people. It strikes me as a pretty awful way to live.

That's the youtube economy, I suppose: feed off other people's achievements, use outrage to attach oneself to whatever is holding everyone's attention.

I do wonder if there's a link between these no-paywall outrage sites and the declining life expectancy in America...constant outrage has got to be super stressy.

It's entertainment. One person's vision may not be another's. So, yes, I generally agree with this.

Probably the closest I've come to being "pissed off" by a movie was in seeing The Phantom Menace the first time. I disliked it so intensely, and felt it trashed the Star Wars franchise, which I had so enjoyed and admired up to that point.

The Odyssey is a one=off (we hope; I suppose if it makes enough money somebody will come up with the idea for Odyssey Two), so I can't imagine being pissed off by it even if I don't like it.

Presumably the obvious next move would be the 'prequel' - I believe they've already written the book?

But, yes, I can see being irritated if a much-loved series takes a bad turn. Again, though, one can just pretend it doesn't exist.

 

[crookedletter]

Probably the closest I've come to being "pissed off" by a movie was in seeing The Phantom Menace the first time. I disliked it so intensely, and felt it trashed the Star Wars franchise, which I had so enjoyed and admired up to that point.

Same. But the fucked-with original trilogy more so. Like @GuiltyCowboy said I can just excise the prequels from my personal canon; not being able to watch the movies I loved growing up without "Maclunkey!" and the like is an actual bummer.

And someone will absolutely make a[nother] Iliad movie after the success of this one, though I'm assuming it won't be Nolan.

 

[SimonDoom]

And someone will absolutely make a[nother] Iliad movie after the success of this one, though I'm assuming it won't be Nolan.

Ridley Scott [correction: Wolfgang Peterson] did it 20 years ago with Troy. Another version with a completely non-Greek cast and a blonde, blue-eyed Helen and a blonde, blue-eyed Achilles (Brad Pitt).

 

[sister jenny]

Ridley Scott did it 20 years ago with Troy. Another version with a completely non-Greek cast and a blonde, blue-eyed Helen and a blonde, blue-eyed Achilles (Brad Pitt).

I read Tron first, and though wtf is he talking about LOL

Wolfgang Petersen, btw. Not be a Besserwisser. But still.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I do find the idea of being pissed off by a movie very weird.

You can not enjoy certain elements of a film, or the entire film in fact, but that never equates to me being pissed off at it. It's like being pissed off at someone offering you a piece of homemade cake. Just say 'oh, that's kind, thank you but not for me,' and move on.

I stand by that even when you think about politics (not 100% of the time but a good 98%). Do I think important, complex problems can be reduced to simple scenarios where one man can ride in and use his moral fiber to fix it all? I do not. But I'm still able to enjoy a Clint Eastwood movie.

I suspect very few people are actually angry about any of it.
Unfortunately, hyperbole abounds and everything has to get elevated into some life or death struggle.

Some people like it, some people don't.
Vanishingly few actually have strong feelings about it.
But it becomes a ploy to criticize people who disagree, "omg, why are you so angry?!?!?!" then they can try and make the conversation about that.

 

[Voboy]

Ridley Scott did it 20 years ago with Troy. Another version with a completely non-Greek cast and a blonde, blue-eyed Helen and a blonde, blue-eyed Achilles (Brad Pitt).

Let's not also forget that another time The Odyssey made it to the screen (albeit the TV screen) in 1997, Calypso was black.

 

[sirhugs]

And someone will absolutely make a[nother] Iliad movie after the success of this one, though I'm assuming it won't be Nolan.

Ridley Scott did it 20 years ago with Troy. Another version with a completely non-Greek cast and a blonde, blue-eyed Helen and a blonde, blue-eyed Achilles (Brad Pitt).

According to Imdb, someone already has a film entitled The Iliad in development. The details are behind a paywall.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Same. But the fucked-with original trilogy more so. Like @GuiltyCowboy said I can just excise the prequels from my personal canon; not being able to watch the movies I loved growing up without "Maclunkey!" and the like is an actual bummer.

And someone will absolutely make a[nother] Iliad movie after the success of this one, though I'm assuming it won't be Nolan.

The best thing about Disney Star Wars is that the prequels suddenly don't seem so bad.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Let's not also forget that the last time The Odyssey made it to the screen (albeit the TV screen) in 1997, Calypso was black.

And everyone was cool with it. Because maybe it's about individual choices and not about categories.

 

[SimonDoom]

I read Tron first, and though wtf is he talking about LOL

Wolfgang Petersen, btw. Not be a Besserwisser. But still.

Ah, you're right. I was mixing up that movie with Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[Voboy]

And everyone was cool with it. Because maybe it's about individual choices and not about categories.

I tend to think it's more about us not having a well-developed Internet culture at that time, complete with ragebaiting content creators.

But who can say, really?

 

[SimonDoom]

I tend to think it's more about us not having a well-developed Internet culture at that time, complete with ragebaiting content creators.

But who can say, really?

Internet culture is definitely part of it. It fuels instant rage.

 

[TheLobster]

Odyssey Two

Polyphemus is back, and he's pissed.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I tend to think it's more about us not having a well-developed Internet culture at that time, complete with ragebaiting content creators.

But who can say, really?

People weren't as race obsessed, and Vanessa Williams was hot.

 

[crookedletter]

Vanessa Williams was hot.

We can all find common ground somewhere.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

We can all find common ground somewhere.

 

[Writer61]

Just returned from seeing The Odyssey on nearby IMAX (digital, not 15/70).

I really enjoyed it. It's been a long time since I read the full story, but I recall the basics, some of the characters, and events. Some bits grated, but I liked much more than I didn't. No specifics, to avoid spoilers. Visually very impressive and I liked how Nolan tied up the story at the end (even if it did remind me of LotR).

Glad I made the effort to go. Worth seeing on a big screen if you can.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Dialogue was awful and many scenes seemed rushed while the overall tempo was ponderous. I found it oddly emotionless.

Agreed. But more so than dialogue, the lack of emotion was quite strange, except in a few characters only.

What I found very jarring was the fact that Odysseus and his men shared no real camaraderie, no real friendship and loyalty. I mean, imagine sharing good and bad with someone for 15-20 years, and then suddenly no one trusts no one. During the trip, soldiers die, but no tears are shed, no real grief is shown. Emotionless and alien.

I suspect the vast majority of the film’s audience will enjoy it in a popcorn sort of way.

I think this is the truest thing anyone has said here.

 

[crookedletter]

What I found very jarring was the fact that Odysseus and his men shared no real camaraderie, no real friendship and loyalty. I mean, imagine sharing good and bad with someone for 15-20 years, and then suddenly no one trusts no one. During the trip, soldiers die, but no tears are shed, no real grief is shown. Emotionless and alien.

I do agree they could have done better establishing some initial camaraderie and loyalty. Through the events of the film -- especially starting with the parting shot Odysseus gives the cyclops, and the ensuing issues they face -- I think we're supposed to see their loyalty fraying, the men becoming less sure of Odysseus and his leadership. But this would have a much bigger impact if we had a better sense of where they stood when first setting out.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Dialogue was awful and many scenes seemed rushed while the overall tempo was ponderous. I found it oddly emotionless.

I agree the dialogue was mostly functional, but unlike others I actually liked the line about the Age of Bronze - it was was the first reminder that this is the Bronze age, it's about to be overtaken in technology, and these city states will fall - which the last scenes of the film were all about. The giants and possibly Circe seemed a bit rushed, while the Troy scenes and Polyphemus were very good, the final fight with the suitors could have been shortened. But that's my view - I tend to yawn in battle scenes in both books and films and see who's standing at the end.

I appreciated not having direction which insisted on characters emoting all the time and manipulating our heartstrings - instead we were shown what was what and could make up our own minds about how people would be feeling.

I don’t think a film needs to be perfect to be worthy of one’s time, thankfully. ...

I suspect the vast majority of the film’s audience will enjoy it in a popcorn sort of way.

Indeed. And I think it was made very much knowing that half of cinema audiences, and even more of groups of 3 or more, are in the 16 to 34 age range - while very few AH posters are. Get some media interest so that the youth want to see it with their mates, and you have a financial success.

For engaging young people who vaguely remember doing The Greeks age 6 or 7 in primary school, in between The Egyptians and The Romans, I think it did a good job (even if my resident mythologist of that age wanted more gods, he enjoyed it). I remember spending most of a lesson cutting out a Polyphemus out of sticky-back paper, along with getting Polyphemus and Cyclopes on our weekly spelling test. Since then, the details are lost to me - I saw Troilus and Cressida last year again, which is set in the Trojan war, but I can never remember who is married to/shagging who, nor which city state or city they come from... And most of the audience will know less than that.

 

[PennyThompson]

Penny's Review, Part 1

The “Close Epic” aesthetic

I have mixed feelings about what I think of as the “Close-Shot Epic” aesthetic. Where a giant, sprawling story and setting is filmed largely in hand-held, eye-level close focus, in contrast to, like, Lawrence of Arabia or Lord of the Rings or whatever. I think it’s often a way of hiding your production budget and lazy shortcuts in your choreography.

But in this case, I thought it was incredibly effective. The IMAX format, the careful use of visual effects, the obvious money spent on locations and extras, even though you often only see those things from over a shoulder, the scale feels genuinely epic. The only other “close epic” that I recall enjoying this much was Villaneuve’s Dune, though Villaneuve was a little more balanced between close-focus and wide shots.

I thought the naturalistic lighting was excellent throughout, I’m so glad Nolan hasn’t fallen prey to the “underlight everything so you can barely tell what’s happening” trend. I think complaints or worries about a drab color palette are largely misplaced, there was plenty of visual contrast between locales and scenes. The gold firelight of the palace of Ithica, the red sparks and flames of the battle of Troy, the many different permutations of sky and sea and sunlight... It’s not like a garishly colorful movie, it's not Luc Besson, but it’s far from monochrome!

Editing and pacing

I usually dislike Nolan’s editing choices and non-linear blah blah blah, but in this case it was both relatively restrained and also completely appropriate. The story is told through two unfolding stories, Odysseus’ gradually returning memory, and Telemachus’ unravelling of what really happened to his father. It’s not done as an overly clever switcheroo, but I thought it did an excellent job of gradually recontextualizing what we think we know.

I think in some cases the pacing was hurt by choosing to stuff so many of the classic Odyssey beats. The Laestrygonian giants looked cool and scary, but there didn’t seem much point to them. If you’re going to keep them at all, why not go all the way with the giant princess and the cannibal king and tie it in thematically with the rest of the movie’s themes of power and hospitality and exploitation? The Charybdis and Scylla sequences felt totally superfluous to me, like they were just there because Nolan figured they had to be.

I didn’t really like the ending, but I know that it’s a generally faithful rendering of how the original story ends. The climactic battle with the suitors is occasionally exciting, but it just goes on for what feels like forever, and I don’t think it’s successful at either showing Odysseus as a source of righteous vengeance or as someone being consumed by his own hatred. It just… kind of happens. At least Nolan doesn’t have Telamachus murder a bunch of female slaves for their sin of being raped by the suitors

Sound and music

Definitely worth experiencing in IMAX or Dolby. The sounds were intense and powerful without feeling overwhelmingly loud, at least in my theater. (Except for a couple of audio jumpscares that I disliked.) I could feel the waves and the thunder and the war drums in my chest, and the Siren scene in particular was incredible and disconcerting.

The dialogue was pretty much always crisp and clear in the mix, unlike Tenet or Dunkirk where there was a lot of intentionally mumbly or noise-obscured dialog that annoyed me.

One thing that I really dislike about Nolan though, is his constant use of Shepard Tones in the soundtrack. I can’t deny that it’s effective at creating like physical bodily tension, but I think it’s a cheap manipulative trick, and he does it like ten bloody times in this movie!

My thoughts on some of the actors, the characterization, the themes, and the “politics,” such as it is, coming in Part 2!

 

[PennyThompson]

Penny's Review, Part 2

Acting/Characterization

I thought the acting was generally excellent, and that the general understatedness of it (aside from some key moments of high drama) was an intentional choice in keeping with the themes of the movie.

Some standout performances and characterizations for me were:

Elliot Page as Sinon. Relatively small role, but he did stick with me as a young honorable man who trusts Odysseus and gets used as a disposable tool, and who comes back to haunt Odysseus’ conscience. His scene in Hades was suitably haunting, I thought. Fuck terfs, he was great

Samantha Morton as Circe. So fricking good, creepy and deeply hurt and oddly alluring. I really liked how she initially seems to be the unreasonable aggressor, but ultimately we learn that her punishment of the soldiers is rather deserved. (Also, the cursed meal and pig transformation, so creepy and viscerally uncomfortable!) I wish we had gotten more time with her and less time with Calypso, tbh… time to finally read Madaline Miller’s Circe, I think

Bennie Safdie (Bennie from Good Time! WTF!) as Agamemnon. Just an absolutely fascinating presence, a cypher, a sphynx, I don’t really know what to make of him but I can’t stop thinking about him!

Themes

Like I mentioned right after watching it, the themes are… not subtle, I think

Xenia, guest-friendship, usually called Zeus’s Law in the movie, is brought up constantly. Treat strangers and travelers with kindness and respect. Don’t reject the beggar, he might be a God. This isn’t new, it’s inherent in the original text.

The twist (again, not subtle) that I found interesting was that Odysseus was so concerned with the Xenia of his various “hosts,” but he and his men are destructive “guests.” Extractive adventurist soldiers who try to rape and pillage their way home, and are constantly punished for it.

A bit of a political rorschach test for sure, but not, I think, in the way that some folks are claiming. Odysseus is complicated. He’s the mistreated traveler, and you could read that as a dig against anti-migrant sentiment, maybe? Either because you agree with it or because you want to be mad at it?

But he’s also an invader, a military adventurer, who gets into a war for unclear reasons, then causes immense damage in his attempts to return from it, then expresses righteous fury for not being welcomed home.

I really, really liked the revisionist conceit of the Odyssey being a story of the Late Bronze Collapse. (They hit it over the head a little too hard imo, Odysseus literally says “Our bronze age will collapse,” but i guess that might be necessary for viewers who aren’t familiar with bronze age history?)

I love that Ithica feared The Sea People (a real historical thing that historians still don’t fully understand or agree on), and it turns out that the Sea People are their own scattered returning troops, lost and reaving for the last ten years.

To really nail it down, Odysseus bemoans that their civilization is in decline because people no longer follow the Law of Zeus, but he is a prime mover in that decline. Xenia for him, not for others.

It probably shouldn’t be a wonder why an American actor was cast in the lead role