Tips for Creating Stories Women Appreciate

[ShinyCrazyDi]

There's this: http://markallenthornton.com/blog/sexual-demographics/

The author scraped Literotica author profiles with story data and compiled the results. Caveats:

• It's about ten years old, and demographics may have shifted since then.
• The profile options for gender have changed since then, although this probably won't affect the male/female breakdowns much.
• It's based on authors, not readers; I would expect reader demographics to be similar to author demographics but that's a matter of opinion.
• It relies on gender as indicated in profile, which of course may not always be truthful.
• Some of the data is reported as "% of authors" but other data is "% of stories" which might not be quite the same (e.g. if male authors tended to write more stories than female authors, or vice versa).

According to that data, 44% of authors here were listed as male vs. 33% female (and another 23% assorted other answers/no answer/couples, which are mostly excluded from the rest of the analysis).

In Romance, authorship was roughly equal male/female.

There are also various market research websites which offer estimates of site visitor demographics, e.g. https://www.similarweb.com/website/literotica.com/#demographics which claims Literotica visitors are approximately 75% male/25% female. I would take these figures with a large grain of salt since their calculations are going to depend on a lot of assumptions that may not be valid for Lit, and in any case they don't offer a breakdown by story category.

Thank you SO MUCH!! I really appreciate you digging up that link etc (even though it's about 10 years old, can't imagine there's been a MASSIVE shift in demographics). Thank you again!

 

[ShinyCrazyDi]

A few things with this... you seem to he saying that women aren't interested if the FMC is beautiful.
All those Hallmark movies are populated by beautiful actresses and women are 99% of their market.
Similarly, if you write a FMC with 42EEE breasts my first thought is "that poor girl's back..." but it definitely doesn't diminish my femininity.

You are spot on about the 12in cock thing. Ironically, the one detail about the MMC that male writers insist on providing is one detail that's virtually irrelevant.

As for anal... that's another thing that exists on a spectrum. There absolutely are women (and I'm talking normal women, not people in the porn industry) who can go from slot a to slot b with no additional lubricant. The range goes from those ladies all the way to "It's not happening regardless".
Not having a lot of prep for it doesn't take me out of a story because I know it isn't always necessary and it's a fantasy. We hand wave STDs, the risk of pregnancy and lots of other issues, it isn't any different.

Women can appreciate beautiful FMC - absolutely!

But there's a difference in storytelling through a visual medium (like casting a Hallmark movie) vs a written medium.

A lot of male writers will dedicate an entire paragraph or more (& also keep reiterating during the story) the specific physical features of their character that they think are attractive. There are stories where the characters are described mostly in terms of 'body parts'. Hair, breasts, height, weight, everything else. I have definitely fallen into that trap one or two times. Sometimes I still find myself needing to heavily edit a physical description. When you SEE a beautiful woman, it's different to reading a 'shopping list of features' of a beautiful woman. It's a little dehumanizing to see it listed out on a page.

So I'd suggest going with a less-is-more approach with the description. In some stories - just saying 'she was a beautiful woman' will be enough. In others, you might give a little more detail - but to stop it seeming leery, focus on her character. Focus on her inner life, thoughts, dreams, conflicts, quirks, whatever.

It's the same with Hallmark movies. Sure, the main actress is beautiful - but Hallmark knows how to make films for women - so I doubt you'd find (for example) a prolonged body-panning shot of the woman in a bathing suit, where the camera lingers on her ass & tits.

The 'male gaze' often seems a little reductive, reducing a woman to a collection of physical attributes the author or artist is personally turned on by. If you're writing FOR women, I'd try to avoid that style. Even if you write almost nothing about the woman, the female readers will be able to 'fill in the blanks' with their imagination.

For example: "Nate thought Lucy was the most beautiful woman at the party, her eyes sparkled with mischief & delight. He watched her, as she flitted from guest to guest, making each one feel welcome, making each person feel special. She radiated warmth & Nate craved that warmth with a desire that made his breath catch. He wanted her. He found himself crossing the room, social anxiety be damned, he needed to know her."

From this we can tell Nate thinks Lucy's beautiful, that he's noticed her eyes & confident personality. We can tell Lucy is extroverted & warm, that her eyes sparkle. There's really no physical description - but if you wanted, you could take those characters & send them on a wild erotic adventure on the page. We don't need to know that she hits specific physical traits that Nate likes, as if he's shopping for women's body parts off a list - in fact, from the description, it seems like he's attracted not just to her bright eyes but her open nature. He's been watching her, but not in a 'serial killer' way.

I hope that helps? Sorry it's a long comment, just had my first coffee of the day. BOOM! COFFEE!

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Women can appreciate beautiful FMC - absolutely!

But there's a difference in storytelling through a visual medium (like casting a Hallmark movie) vs a written medium.

A lot of male writers will dedicate an entire paragraph or more (& also keep reiterating during the story) the specific physical features of their character that they think are attractive. There are stories where the characters are described mostly in terms of 'body parts'. Hair, breasts, height, weight, everything else. I have definitely fallen into that trap one or two times. Sometimes I still find myself needing to heavily edit a physical description. When you SEE a beautiful woman, it's different to reading a 'shopping list of features' of a beautiful woman. It's a little dehumanizing to see it listed out on a page.

So I'd suggest going with a less-is-more approach with the description. In some stories - just saying 'she was a beautiful woman' will be enough. In others, you might give a little more detail - but to stop it seeming leery, focus on her character. Focus on her inner life, thoughts, dreams, conflicts, quirks, whatever.

It's the same with Hallmark movies. Sure, the main actress is beautiful - but Hallmark knows how to make films for women - so I doubt you'd find (for example) a prolonged body-panning shot of the woman in a bathing suit, where the camera lingers on her ass & tits.

The 'male gaze' often seems a little reductive, reducing a woman to a collection of physical attributes the author or artist is personally turned on by. If you're writing FOR women, I'd try to avoid that style. Even if you write almost nothing about the woman, the female readers will be able to 'fill in the blanks' with their imagination.

For example: "Nate thought Lucy was the most beautiful woman at the party, her eyes sparkled with mischief & delight. He watched her, as she flitted from guest to guest, making each one feel welcome, making each person feel special. She radiated warmth & Nate craved that warmth with a desire that made his breath catch. He wanted her. He found himself crossing the room, social anxiety be damned, he needed to know her."

From this we can tell Nate thinks Lucy's beautiful, that he's noticed her eyes & confident personality. We can tell Lucy is extroverted & warm, that her eyes sparkle. There's really no physical description - but if you wanted, you could take those characters & send them on a wild erotic adventure on the page. We don't need to know that she hits specific physical traits that Nate likes, as if he's shopping for women's body parts off a list - in fact, from the description, it seems like he's attracted not just to her bright eyes but her open nature. He's been watching her, but not in a 'serial killer' way.

I hope that helps? Sorry it's a long comment, just had my first coffee of the day. BOOM! COFFEE!

The point you are making is entirely different than the point Ronde, whom I was replying to, made.

That said, repeating over and over that a character is attractive isn't really a male/female issue. It's just bad writing.

 

[AG31]

This. There is no single answer to "what do women find attractive?" but a lot of stories don't make much effort to give any answer; the woman wants to fuck the guy merely because the story requires that he gets to fuck.

Do you know of stories on Lit where the man is described vividly (either physically or character-wise)? If you do, would you consider creating a "curated list" and adding it to @Omenainen's list? Or just list some here?

 

[Bramblethorn]

Do you know of stories on Lit where the man is described vividly (either physically or character-wise)? If you do, would you consider creating a "curated list" and adding it to @Omenainen's list? Or just list some here?

I suspect almost anybody here would be a better person to compile that list than me

 

[TheRedChamber]

You just made me think: do any Literotica stories pass the Bechdel Test? It might not be fair to ask about a smut site, of course.

I'll post a thoughtful response to this thread as a whole later (maybe).

For now, I just want to point out that Debbie Does Dallas passes the Bechdel Test.

 

[AchtungNight]

Respect women. Don’t be a jerk. Write your characters with emotions and development. Write with a feminine mindset if you can. Be passionate and stand by your work. I can’t give better advice than that.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Respect women. Don’t be a jerk. Write your characters with emotions and development. Write with a feminine mindset if you can. Be passionate and stand by your work. I can’t give better advice than that.

This has nothing to do with writing a story that engages women or turns them on.

You don't have to respect women to write a sexy male character. In fact many sexy male characters are disrespectful of women themselves. Some women like that, some do not. Although, you would do well to have an idea of themes that they are looking for so that your male writing can draw them in.

You do not have to write with a female mindset to engage a woman reader or turn her on. Many women are drawn to alphas and if you write like an alpha male they will probably be at least interested. Many women are into sweetness and devotion, yet many others would be equally happy with one filthy ragdolling night with Tyler Durden.

(Straight) women like men! It's totally okay to write like a man, just write one that is worth laying down for. It's not that the male characters on lit aren't sensitive enough, it's that they're not manly enough (which will likely include some sensitivity).

Being passionate about and standing by your work is good advice regardless of gender ... or plot, or setting, or theme, or kink, or anything else - so it's specifically irrelevant.

Writing characters with an emphasis on emotion will help connect with women readership, yes. I'll give you that one.

 

[ShinyCrazyDi]

This has nothing to do with writing a story that engages women or turns them on.

You don't have to respect women to write a sexy male character. In fact many sexy male characters are disrespectful of women themselves. Some women like that, some do not. Although, you would do well to have an idea of themes that they are looking for so that your male writing can draw them in.

You do not have to write with a female mindset to engage a woman reader or turn her on. Many women are drawn to alphas and if you write like an alpha male they will probably be at least interested. Many women are into sweetness and devotion, yet many others would be equally happy with one filthy ragdolling night with Tyler Durden.

(Straight) women like men! It's totally okay to write like a man, just write one that is worth laying down for. It's not that the male characters on lit aren't sensitive enough, it's that they're not manly enough (which will likely include some sensitivity).

Being passionate about and standing by your work is good advice regardless of gender ... or plot, or setting, or theme, or kink, or anything else - so it's specifically irrelevant.

Writing characters with an emphasis on emotion will help connect with women readership, yes. I'll give you that one.

I mean... respecting women does seem to be pretty good advice to apply to most things though. Just as a general rule. If you already do, that's great.

 

[AchtungNight]

Jerks like Tyler Durden have never appealed to me, and I don’t think I would be attracted to men like them if I were a woman. But I guess there’s no accounting for taste.

 

[AG31]

What I was saying is that it doesn't support the idea that there are somehow more or even equal women readers on Lit than men.

Even more on the same page. I didn't mean to suggest that wisdom of any sort suggested anything about genders on Lit.

 

[AG31]

Writing characters with an emphasis on emotion will help connect with women readership, yes. I'll give you that one.

I (female) concur with most of what you said in this post (gave it a thumbs up), but, as with almost everything, you need a "most" in this thought. I, for one, would rather not be distracted by emotion (see my post on Simple Erotica). Evidence of self acceptance is all the character hint I need.

 

[Imakewetspots]

I (female) concur with most of what you said in this post (gave it a thumbs up), but, as with almost everything, you need a "most" in this thought. I, for one, would rather not be distracted by emotion (see my post on Simple Erotica). Evidence of self acceptance is all the character hint I need.

Since I started this post, I’ve been reading a lot of the recommended stories along with sampling stories of the ladies who weighed in here.

This comment about ‘not wanting to be distracted by emotion’ kinda grabbed me because I know there are moments when both men and women want to have a purely carnal experience. So it stands to reason that there are times when men and women might seek something like that in a quick story as well. Maybe not a steady diet of it but just now and then as an indulgence.

I’ve certainly been reminded from the comments that writing is art and like all art, it’s going to move people differently. ‘Beauty is in the eye of the beholder’ is thrown around too much but it’s certainly true. I can’t describe the perfect woman but I sure recognize her when I see her!

Over the past couple days, I’ve felt energized to write. I’ve been tweaking old stories I’ve written but never published. At the same time, I’ve started a few new stories as an experiment. I think I see now that there’s no way I’m going to appeal to all women at the same time in a single story but I can try to appeal to many groups of women through different stories.

To that end, I just submitted a short story written with a female perspective regarding feelings of regret after an exciting and purely spontaneous event. I already know there will be some ladies who won’t care for it, which is fine, but this first experiment will be an attempt to grab female readers who maybe can relate to what takes place in the story. It’s really just a nudge to get me moving in what I hope is the right direction.

I sure appreciate all the advice that’s been offered!

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I (female) concur with most of what you said in this post (gave it a thumbs up), but, as with almost everything, you need a "most" in this thought. I, for one, would rather not be distracted by emotion (see my post on Simple Erotica). Evidence of self acceptance is all the character hint I need.

Can't please everyone. (smirk)

 

[MillieDynamite]

And therein lies the rub: like men, we women have differences in what we like from one person to the next. Rather than targeting a gender or specific reader group, write your stories in each genre, attempting to write as well as you can, and let the bodies fall where they might. (@pink_silk_glove, I am not singling you out; just answer in the affirmative to, "You can't please everyone.")

Can't please everyone. (smirk)

 

[ShinyCrazyDi]

Jerks like Tyler Durden have never appealed to me, and I don’t think I would be attracted to men like them if I were a woman. But I guess there’s no accounting for taste.

In real life? Fully agree. But there's something fun about reading or writing about a villain or a jerk sometimes. Especially in erotica when you might want to push at taboos.

What you're looking for in real life doesn't have to be reflected by the stories you enjoy. Like all forms of literature, erotica can explore all kinds of characters & scenarios.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Some notes on Tyler Durden. Now, not every woman is going to have the same list of points that they find attractive, and certainly not all women are going to be into him (or anyone else), but here is a list of sexy things about Tyler.

1 ~ He's pretty.
2 ~ He's stylish.
3 ~ He has a certain rogue ruggedness and obviously can take care of himself.
4 ~ He's clever.
5 ~ He has ideas and ideals that he lives by.
6 ~ He's independent (a rebel even).
7 ~ He's a leader, not a follower (people flock around him).
8 ~ He seems to have no fear.
9 ~ He's decisive and takes action.

None of this has anything to do with him in bed (yet) and he's already sexy af. He takes what he wants in life and if a girl was one of those wants, how could she not be flattered even if she ultimately turned him down?

There's a scene in the movie where Tyler strolls down the hall\way and Marla opens the door, peeks out (presumably nakey), then grabs him and yanks him into the bedroom, slamming the door.

Why does she do this? Because of that list.

Now, of course, that list is hardly the only things that can turn a woman on, but if you can't make some sort of list of what turns a woman on about your male character, no one is going to yank him into the bedroom and slam the door, so if your female is still climbing on to your boring schmuck of a guy, none of us women are going to care.

 

[AchtungNight]

You have some good points. I agree bad guys can be fun to write. I’ve just always enjoyed showing them defeated rather than winning. Fair point not to make characters boring. At the same time, if a woman ends the story in a bad situation thanks to being with the wrong person, that is imo not good.

 

[Erozetta]

You have some good points. I agree bad guys can be fun to write. I’ve just always enjoyed showing them defeated rather than winning. Fair point not to make characters boring. At the same time, if a woman ends the story in a bad situation thanks to being with the wrong person, that is imo not good.

Sometimes that's life. There's nothing wrong with wanting to write about potential realities just as there's nothing wrong with always wanting to write complete fantasy. There's an audience for both and there are writers for both.

 

[Omenainen]

To toot my own horn, someone named “make me wet” just left gushing (sic) comments on some of my stories, so it appears I have this covered.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I'm far from a typical woman even if there were such a thing, but I'm reminded of the cliche, "Feminism is the astonishing notion that women are people."

Are the women in a story given plausible (or any) motivations for their actions? Are they described like the male characters, or more like a sex doll or set of body parts?

I'll happily read a fair bit of clunky or bad writing if it hits my buttons, but a big mismatch in an author describing the detailed background of Our Protagonist Guy vs a woman who is basically a walking Fleshlight, will switch me off instantly.

 

[ShinyCrazyDi]

& it probably goes without saying - but if you're aiming for 'authenticity' the characters should avoid 100% perfection, it can read like the manic-pixie-dream-girl/boy trope. Regardless of gender, if you want your characters to 'feel real' be open to having them fail sometimes, or give them a few quirks or flaws or TEXTURE that makes them seem like people & not airbrushed magazine glossies.

 

[ShinyCrazyDi]

I just want to say that it's really really nice to be in a thread where women (& some guys too!) are communicating about writing erotica. I'm the only one in my circle of friends who writes smut & it's great there's a little community of us online! I appreciate the comments from some of the guys - although some of the vocal male comment makers (not specifically restricted to this thread) seem to be primarily focused on the 'erotic' (leaning heavily to Pornhub-style) rather than 'erotic literature'. No shade. No kink-shaming. But I'm fully appreciating some of the incredible writers on this site (glad I wandered in). This seems like a nice gang.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

This seems like a nice gang.

Oh, just wait. : P

 

[pink_silk_glove]

or give them a few quirks or flaws or TEXTURE that makes them seem like people

Tell that to the template romance crowd.